Throw Escaping... need help!!!

I want to ask all of you VF players out there...

HONESTLY, who can actually REALLY PULL OFF a successfull throw escape for just, say, 25% of the time? If there is one thing that I will never be good at in VF4, it is throw escaping.

I mean, come on! I don't have too much problem escaping throws in Tekken 4, because the grabbing animation is quite visible and there's that small 'flash' before the initial throw, but in VF4, the grabbing motion is very fast, the next thing I know I'm already floored before I could guess which direction to escape the throw. The only time I managed a successful throw escape is during a chain-throw, like Aoi's, or Jeffry's triple head-butts.

Could someone please, please give me a real guide/tips on throw escaping instead of just saying 'Just keep practicing'!!

 

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I mean, come on! I don't have too much problem escaping throws in Tekken 4, because the grabbing animation is quite visible and there's that small 'flash' before the initial throw

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No offense, but this isn't T4.

It's <font color="yellow"> very </font color> difficult to recognize a throw and react accordingly. Throw escapes require a certain amount of guessing. You can simplify this guessing game by learning what your opponent's most powerful throws are.

Example: Jacky's best throws are + and +. Let's say you're using Akira, and Jacky blocks your shoulder ram. During the recovery, if quickly enter + and +, you can escape both throws. After moves with long recovery times, you can even do three escapes. If Jacky blocks Akira's RBC (which has a very long recovery time), you can enter +, +, and +. This eliminates 3 of Jacky's 4 throw options. The only throwing option Jacky has in this situation is his basic + throw, which does mediocre damage (this can be escaped by simply pressing +). In situations where you're at a disadvantage and you're not sure if the opponent will attack or throw, you can use an evading throw-escape guard (or evading double-throw-escape-guard). This allows you to avoid throws as well as linear attacks/combo-strings. Just evade, enter one or two throw escapes, then immediately hold guard. Once again, the key to throw escaping is to avoid the most powerful throws, which protects you from maximum damage. All of this information is available in the "Trial" section of Training mode.

 

Like DRE said, go through the training and pay attention to the button input displays in the throw escape trials. One of the key things to remember is that you CANNOT start inputing throw escapes until the very last moments of your recovery time. In addition, you also CANNOT mash the inputs, they have to be very precise in order for the game to buffer the throw escapes. If you find yourself inputing more than three commands, then you have done something wrong. Triple throw escape is only useful with throw counterable moves, you can find this out by throwing out different moves in your character's movelist. The computer dummy will ONLY throw you on throw counterable moves. This is a good way to find out when you should remember to do triple throw escapes. It is very very hard to escape throws on reaction like Dre says, the more you play the more you might be able to anticipate throw escape in situations other than having your move blocked. This is dependent on guessing you opponent's tendencies. One of the other key things to remember is that strike attacks will always beat out throw attempts. If you can successfully pressure attack your opponents when he tries to throw, your attacks will override his throw attempts and net you a MC with your attack. Hope that helps you out. /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

Dre and ninjin's tips are very good. I just wanted to add that there's a few common mistakes I make when throw escaping, and probably others make as well:

1. Escaping too early... in training mode it's actually possible to wait and see the opponent's arms start to grasp for you, and then escape the throw on reflex alone. What this means is you can escape the throw a few frames after the throw has actually started. So don't be afraid to wait before entering those escapes. It won't be too late if you wait until the opponent's throw is actually starting. Also keep in mind that throw escape timing differs from move to move. If the opponent blocks akira's knee, the throw has to happen INSTANTLY and there isn't any special timing you need to worry about.. because akira is only -9 after that move, and -8 is where a throw is guaranteed. However if the opponent blocks akira's bodycheck, he can throw right away... he can wait 5 frames and then throw.... he can wait 10 frames and then throw... he can even wait up to 15(!) frames and then throw. The bodycheck recovery is crappy so he has all the time in the world to think about what he wants to do. Your escape inputs must match the timing he uses to press P+G. You don't have to enter the escape at the EXACT moment he presses P+G, but you have to enter it something like within 10 frames either before or after.

2. A lot of good players like to yell "I ESCAPED THAT!1!!!111" and blame the sticks. It might be the sticks, but it could also be sloppy inputs. If you want to escape b+P+G, you can't do a sort of halfassed , input and hope the game says "close enough", nor can you do +, (which is technically what you're doing if you press the buttons a split second before moving the stick). You need to know for sure that b+P+G is what you need to do, and input it cleanly.

3. Escaping too late - this happens a lot...you did a barely throw counterable move and you're facing kage. The kage has mixed up throws well in the past. You take 1/10th of a second to think "he used b+P+G and he's expecting me to escape b and f." and then another 1/10th of a second to think "I bet he'll do df+P+G this time, he doesn't have enough time to enter b,d+P+G"... and after all that thinking is done, you're already 10 frames into the throw and it's too late to do anything. So you really have to know the opponent, realizing which throw he's going to use and entering a perfect escape isn't good enough if you're 1/5th of a second too slow. Part of building that escape habit means recoginizing when you just did a throw counterable attack. You can't have a knee blocked and then think "what now"... throw escaping should be your first thought.


..hope that helped.

 

Good advice all around. There are a few things I'd like to add.

Say you are playing vs Akira. Akira has 3 throws that end in , 2 that end in and 2 that end in . What's more, the throws of his that don't end in these directions guarantee either little (+) or no ( & ) damage. With this in mind if you roll the joystick or and tap + with the correct timing you will be avoiding 7(!) of his throws rather than just 3. Versus some characters the wiggle ending with (or ) is the best triple throw escape option at your disposal. Jacky, Kage and Lau leap to mind here.

Basically, what you need to do is find out the throw you MUST AVOID & make sure you are escaping it & if you can incorporate that into an already familiar joystick motion (QCF, QCB, etc) and press the buttons with the proper timing you will be escaping almost enough throws to convince your opponent to quit blocking your knee altogether.

When you are in a crumble situation vs character's that have crouch grabs you WILL LOSE if you don't escape them as typically the damage you take from the crumble & grab is in the 40-50% range. What you DO NOT want to do is have your grab escape(s) during the crumple turn into a TR (read the backstagger instant death combo guide in junky's jungle!) so be precise & don't get sloppy or it's out of the frying pan, etc. I myself have some confusion on this point actually. The ps2 training mode suggests and my own experience seems to bear out that you can escape multiple crouch grabs in a crumble but I have read on this site that only one crouch grab can be escaped at a time. Maybe someone can clear this up.

Have fun!

 

Yeah you can actually escape two low throws at a time. For ground throws in Evo, though, you can only attempt one escape. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

A technique I found useful was to go into training mode against various characters, and somewhere in the options there will be a setting to flash up on the screen which throw escape to use when your opponent executes a throw. It's very useful for timing and you can get a general idea of what throw escapes to use against different characters.

 

Wow... You people... I was totally blown away!!

Thanks a lot for the great tips! I guess I'll spend another night practicing in Training Mode. /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif

But... just curious. For the record, like I asked before, who among you people who can really pull off throw escapes for around, 20-30% of the time, maybe?

 

It really depends on the situation. At a high level of play, you really don't go for throws as much when facing a throw counterable move. This is because good players will be able to escape 50-80% of the time because of triple throw escapes. Throwing opportunity occurs with better odds when you anticipate people idly stand and block at a high level play. Under these kinds of situations, throw escaping becomes much more difficult, because you don't have the help of throw escape buffering. So really, you can't base the usefulness of throw escapes simply on the frequency it occurs. You have to know that if you do not remember to do throw escapes, all those escapes you don't do is a free chance for your opponent to net huge damage. I hope this helps.

/versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

I'd say I escape throws at about 40% of the times I want to... i.e. roughly half the time or a little below. There are three ways to approach it:

1. Lazy/All-brains style -
Escape only when you're really sure the opponent is going to throw, and when you do enter your escape, you only enter a single throw escape... either with careful timing, or by just mashing the same direction over and over. If you use this style, you will escape every so often, but you will still end up eating throws, because your opponent will be sure to use the throw you're not going to guess. But at least you'll never blow the escape due to timing/stick issues.

2. Brains-with-a-little-dexterity style:
It makes escaping harder, but you just enter 2 throw escapes every single time you're sure the opponent will throw... and you learn to enter the escapes with the correct timing, you will be very slippery. This isn't that hard on the hands, and it only leaves you open to those surprise throws and the infamous "third throw" technique.

3. All-dexterity style. Enter three throw escapes every single time you're sure you will be thrown. And when you are disadvantaged by more than 2 frames, enter tough EDTEG's every time. This has a high chance of fucking up, and by trying to enter three really fast escapes, you might CORRECTLY enter only one. And by trying to do EDTEG you might just lose to a predictable throw because your fingers were slow or your timing was off. But IF you can master this, you will be damn near unthrowable... and when you do get thrown, it will be for minimal damage. This is much easier to talk about on paper than it is to do in actual combat.

I recommend desbastard that you start with 1 and move up to 2 and maybe 3 someday. If you KNOW the throw is coming, don't be ashamed to mash the escape. Nobody wants to eat a kage TFT or a wolf giant swing in a stupid, easy, predictable situation. Then move up to perfectly timing your escape, and from there try TE-G or dodge-throw escape.
You get the picture.

 

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This is because good players will be able to escape 50-80% of the time because of triple throw escapes.

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As much as I'd like to believe this, we all know that it's not quite true. Few, if any, of the NA good players can consistently do a triple TE. DTE, sure, happy sailing. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

On a side note, I thought I would repost what GodEater had posted a while back - some musings from kbcat's translations of 1/60th. Interesting frame stats for throwing in VF4:
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Throw Escapes

Throws:
7 Frames of Execution
4 Frames of Grip

Escape Window: 10 Frames after Grip

Details:
If throw is started during recovery but grips after recovery then the escape window also extends backwards to the beginning of the input buffer

If all 4 Grip frames are during recovery the Escape Window becomes 10 frames before plus 10 Frames after the Grip.

If some of the Grip Frames are during recovery and some after then the Escape Window becomes 10 Frames after the first Grip but not including the Frames during recovery: the Escape Window can be reduced to 7 Frames

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cheers,

 

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Few, if any, of the NA good players can consistently do a triple TE.

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Two things. First, the original post referred to "high-level play"...is this what good NA players produce?

Second, the QCF method I described in my post is easier than SPoD. Good players can do this. They DO do this. I'm scrubby as shit and it works beautifully for me.

 

Llanfair, with those percentages, I was only referring specifically to situations when a throw counterable move gets blocked, and only situations where you can do a triple throw escape. I don't think it's an improbable estimate. I tried to make it clear that in most of the situations, you do not have the opportunity to buffer in throw escapes. Which is why when we watch most matches, throw escapes are not as common as 50%-80%. This is why I also made the statement that you cannot base the usefulness of throw escapes by the frequency it occurs. I hope this helps you understand why I threw out those percentages. It's easy to see that the percentage is not an overestimate. Most of us NA players can effectively pull off a double escape when we remember to do them. For most characters in the VF roster, this effectively escapes 50% or even 90% of the throw options in some cases. When you pull of triple throw escapes, even against grapplers like Aoi or Wolf, doing three escapes will almost always yield a 50% chance of escaping throws given that there are only 6 different throw escapes.

/versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

A little note on triple throw escapes for newer people. Sorry I didnt read the whole thread thoroughly so I may be repeating info.

Attempting triple throw escapes on training mode is all good but they arent very safe in a real match. If u try triple throw escape youll and the opponent doesnt throw youll get a throw animation at the end. Any decent player should recognize this and they will MC the hell out of you instead of throwing. Youre much safer just doing DTE-G or maybe even TE-G. Ya u might take a 40-50 pt throw but its usually better than taking a MC floater(especially against that pig Akira /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif )that takes off 80+ points. Anyway my point is dont be greedy trying alot of TEs just do what u can do.

Again sorry to all the people that knew this or if this has already been posted.

 

Sorry fellas, I should have made it more clear in my original post that I was talking about buffering in 3 escapes after your (just) throw counterable move is blocked. The QCF method I described is easy to dial, useful in actual play against easily 1/3 of the roster & will register you escapes in one or two directions even when you screw it up.

It's funny that we should be talking about the dexterity required with multiple grab escapes or EDTE-G & then satify ourselves with half-measures while it's a given that you master your characters' often considerably more difficult max & high damage combos.

What was the advice from Korea? Work on your defense?

 

Listen to mike, E-DTEG is for humans. Triple G is for aliens. You'll only really want to use triple in those special situations at the end of the match when a pg throw will finish you. Players in this hemisphere aren't at that level however. Starting with E-DTEG is best. imo

 

Not sure what you're trying to say, but if it's "go straight for the triple throw escape because doing anything less is settling for mediocrity" ...I disagree. There aren't any worthwhile combos in VF that are hard as doing TTEG. So if players (new, old, whatever) are encouraged to try nothing but TTEG, they'll be the guys eating knee and shrm combos while people who are halfway good at DTEG are getting away with murder..

 

Des asks how he can escape more throws. I tell him a method of TTEG that works for me. I shared the finding with the fellas in my playing group and it works for them. I actually had considered posting this stuff on the board a couple months ago but wanted to make sure it wasn't common knowledge. I dug up this ancient thread that discussed some article translated from a Japanese magazine about play styles. In the article there was an account of two strong players fighting where one player was just escaping too many grabs. When asked how he did this the player responded with something like "I just whip the joystick around"...This seemed to validate my independant finding and it has before and since worked well for me in actual play. Am I absolutely positive that I'm always entering the three escapes I'm intending? I can't say that I am. Am I getting whiffed throw animations &/or MC'd when no throw attempt is made after my (just) throw counterable move is blocked? No. Am I escaping lots of different throws I probably deserve to eat? Yup.

Oh...,,, is a bit harder than hold IMO.

 

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Am I absolutely positive that I'm always entering the three escapes I'm intending? I can't say that I am.

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Exactly.

Although I love the idea of breaking three powerful throws at once, there have been many instances where I've taken damage from obvious throws while attempting TTE. I'm positive I would've escaped those obvious throws by using the slower, much more accurate DTE technique instead. The QCF method you mentioned sounds great against Akira and Jeffry, but what about the other characters? Against Kage, Lau and Pai, you'd have to do , and (or ). This is very difficult to pull off consistently (if at all) in an actual match. I think the most important thing is to focus on the 2 throws you really want to avoid, then every once in a while add a 3rd. Entering 2 command throw escapes, plus a basic escape is much easier than breaking 3 command throws at once IMO.

 

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Entering 2 command throw escapes, plus a basic escape is much easier than breaking 3 command throws at once IMO.

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This statement is the best advice to players wondering what to do when you get throw counterable moves blocked. I find TTE much easier and more accurate when the last escape command you enter is a simple thow. When you put the neutral throw escape in the end, the last two escape commands you enter can be extremely fast. Since basically you do the first escape command of the three, then quickly tap + twice in a row with only the first one a direction throw escape. This will effectively add the third throw escape with speed and accuracy. Hopefully this helps those trying to work TTE into their games. /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif