Throw Tiers! Who has the best throw game?

It's Saturday night, I'm sick and bored as hell. So, lets all bitch and argue over who has the best throw game in VF5. Let's assume that all matches are taking place in a ringed arena so that Kage's 10 foot toss and Wolf's giant swing ringout ability isn't being factored.

I guess this is going to go down by the total number of throws that a character has, complexity of the inputs to prevent TE, damage, comboability, oki, etc.

It's pretty obvious whose tops, so I'll start with them (In no particular order).

S: Jeff, Wolf, Goh, Aoi

A:

B:

C:

Who do you think is best in S? Do you disagree? Should someone else be in there? Should hit throws that can connect while an opponent is guarding be factored in? Anything else I'm missing?

 

Complexity of input of a throw does not prevent it from being escaped, nor does it make it difficult.

Kage would be an S in my opinion, since 1 throw can end the match.

 

I'd have to say Wolf in number one. Ring out potential going forwards and backwards, massive damage, more throw escape inputs, ground throw mixups and a catch throw for shiggles in certain situations.

But that was kind of a gimme, right?

 

Yah, low throws puts Wolf ahead of Kage IMO.

Who has the worst throw game?
Sarah? Eileen? Lei?

 

S Wolf, Kage, Goh, Aoi, Jeffry

A Pai, El Blaze, Akira, Vanessa, Lion, Lau

B Sarah, Lei Fei, Jacky, Eileen, Shun (0 DP)

C Brad


I placed them in order of my opinion, still a bit doubtful about some of my placements. I'm not discounting ring out potential since that would be a huge oversight when judging throw game IMO. Post throw okizeme is also a factor that most people seem to gloss over as well (I think this definitely helps Sarah, her neutral P+G is actually quite good).

 

Don't forget throw range ~

 

lei-fei + 0f throws = win.

 

S would definitely have Wolf Goh and Kage. Vane might be in there too, the fact that she can down attack after pretty much all of them annoys the shit out of me

Other than that I have no idea.

If this were VF5r though I'd have to put every damn guy with a change of direction type throw (Brad Wolf Jeff etc..) in S tier. Shit is lethal in that game. It's really the only thing about VF5r I want to dislike. I mean, you got them in the corner, then make one mistake, and get buttfucked for 100+ damage for it.

Sorry I got side tracked... All the other characters throw games just blend in to one big tier for me

 

Good point.

Sarah is low tier IMO because of the low damage her throws do relative to others.

 

I'm going to agree with Jeneric's list, except I might put Sarah in A, just because she has a good throw oki on neutral, and she has a throw with decent damage that is escaped with down-back. That seems to be the one direction that no one ever puts in their "automatic" throw escape list. You can ETEG all day, but I bet you rarely ever use down-back in that.

If we're counting online, I'd put Jacky one tier higher too, just because of his 64 throw. It always comes out as a 0frame, and when playing online that might as well be called "inescapable".

 

Well, you don't have to play Sarah that much to start doing db as a throw escape input...It's usually quite necessary and if you're NOT doing it against Sarah you're not thinking.

Online never counts.

 

i'd might move lei fei up just b/c of 0f throws, and his ability to land his throws (i.e. mix up, his regular attacks set his throws up in such amazing fashion, not to mention conditioning, i could go on).

I might move eileen down, just b/c it seems to me (from the 4 people that play her online) like her throw game sucks, most people trying to flip at you, and anyone who mashes will interrupt her flips.

Shun i want to move down b/c he has such tiny little arms that whiff and whiff and whiff and whiff, he'll be nose to nose and whiff a throw then get killed, I LOVE IT, take that all you op shun users, jk. But the fact that he earns drink points for throws keeps him in hte bracket jeneric placed him at, its such a psycological thing, you never say, FUCK goh judo threw my ass again, but you always say FUCK shun and that 4 drink throw, DAMNIT, not again. and then you nervously watch as his dp build.

I think jacky falls into the same thing as shun, where i want to take him down b/c versus him it doesn't feel like he has any good throws, but b/c of his offensive antics he seems to be able to set his lousy throws up rather nicely, so that bumps him back up.

I realize all my opinions are probably wrong, but thats me knee jerk reaction to this thread /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

jacky's 64p+g throw doesn't have any magic properties, you just need help versus him.

jacky's 65 dmg wall throw from his non-dominant throw direction makes him a threat near walls. He can easily put down good damage from 33p+g into a wall too.

 

Only matches played in stockholm counts.
Jeneric, i realize offline is superior to online in everyway, but you can't be so narrow minded and obtuse. Its awesome that u have dedicated players living in your vicinity but most of don't. Online counts. and if it doesn't we might as well all send off to sega and beg them not to release any more vf fighting games to consoles, b/c online doesn't count, and offline obviously can't support the game on its own.

 

I didn't say you couldn't play online now, did I? I've already given up on trying to convince people that online VF5 is not the real VF5 and I wish I gave up when I saw that people actually needed to be convinced.

We're discussing the actual gameplay of VF5, bringing in "this works online" is not helping anything, it will just downgrade discussion. It's like adding /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (block) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif to Akira's combo list since it works online. Online being the only thing you got doesn't fix the internet and it doesn't fix VF5's shitty netcode. Until miracles happen, online can not be allowed to be considered in gameplay discussions ever, it will only hurt the community by allowing too much faulty information.

 

touche. I shouldn't have taken it personal, but its hard not to when someone says, hey, you know that thing you dedicate a sizable portion of your life to? well it doesn't count b/c its online (and of course i understand that you'd much rather play offline but its simply not an option).

I guess my real point was, in a way there is room for online discussion, since its what 90% of us here are stuck with, but granted the "true" discussion cannot account for online quirks and errors.

Guess its just the sad reality of what most of us are stuck with. But i am/was still thankful for online vf.

 

S Wolf, Kage, Goh, Aoi, Jeffry

A Pai, El Blaze, Vanessa, Lau, Akira

B Sarah, Lion, Jacky, Lei Fei

C Brad, Eileen, Shun (0 DP)

Im not sure about Kage, I felt like dropping him into A because once you start escaping TFT the nerfs to rest of his throws show. but apart from him the top and bottom are pretty obvious indeed. Ill propably make a better list after I have thought about this a little. This was a spur of the moment thing.

I was going to make a list according to:
1. throw directions
2. average damage across the most damaging throw to each of those (not counting sideswitches)
3. ability to RO opponent with throws (Kage, Wolf, Jeff, Akira)
4. Ability to combo off throws (this is why I stopped trying to do this list right now cause I couldnt bother to search for the standard damage combos)
5. number of catch throws
6. situations after the throws
7. lowthrows?
8. safety after throws are escaped?

Im not sure about how Akira can be A with just 4 damaging throw directions and non-damaging catch throw..

 

Lei fei's gotta be a tier i think. His 33p+g is 60 dmg minimum and if you have a light weight character it is 72 dmg!! He doesn't have a lot of throw directions to play with, but he has a lot of ways to 0f throw the really are indefensible (practically). Honestly, for whatever he lacks for in using throws to punish due to ease of escape, he makes up for with his throws in 0f offensive mix ups. IMO.

 

0f throws shouldnt be an issue either since everybody can get all of their non-catch throws through as 0f.. The only thing that would matter is the rest of their offense. If its confusing enough getting those throws thru gets easier.. but Im kinda against taking this into account.

Youre right about Lei though.. I was thinking hard whether to put him into A, or putting Akira down to B. Because they have pretty similar throw game. Except Lei having a damaging catch throw and Akira not. On the other hand Akira has ability to RO. Lau is in A solely due to his throw directions, great okizeme after them and average damage.

 

I agree that Lei Fei maybe should be higher. I'd maybe put Lau up a few spots though (still in the same tier, though)

I don't see how Akira should be lower. He has a throw that does 70+ damage. 4 directions is what most of the cast has to use (including Wolf), his catch throw might not be guaranteed damage, but he has plenty of setups from it besides the built in options that can deal severe damage. His potential for wall damage should not be underestimated either (an Akira with his to the wall has 3 directions that can deal 70+ dmg). The only "flaw" he has is that some find him the easiest to do 3 TE's on.

I think Kage even without his TFT would still be rated highly. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif does 55 dmg, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif does what? 52?, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif does 45, regular /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif throw does 45, whorish catch throw. Kage without TFT has better throwing game then a lot of characters, then you add that monster of a throw to it...

BTW, I love these kind of discussions and wish we'd have them more often on VFDC /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif