throwing a staggered opponent

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Shadowdean, Feb 25, 2002.

  1. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Is this possible in 4?
     
  2. Jason Cha

    Jason Cha Well-Known Member

    You know, this is actually a good question... is it the same as in VF3, where if you executed the throw too quickly it would miss because the opponent was "in stagger?"

    -Jason
     
  3. nxw0016

    nxw0016 Well-Known Member

    According to my experience in vs battles in arcade, it seems that you can't throw a staggering opponent. There have been times that I input throw command immediately when I saw my opponent was staggered by my elbow, but the throw would whif. Seems like you have to wait until the staggering is over to throw.
     
  4. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    <font color=red>kbcat</font color=red> wrote: The opponent has just started to stagger, they're in the middle of the "wobbling" animation. You do the low throw as soon as possible. [//I]2/02/02 kbcat was speakingabout b,b+K+G (Vanessa) hitting after being fully charged and then df+P+K+G Low Throw.

    <font color=green>alantan</font color=green> wrote: The CD says you CAN buffer throw escapes during your move recovery phase
    Recently when Reaping 7 star throw (b+P+G)came out when I was trying HCB+P+G
    I thought this was because of attempting to buffer throw during stagger. (shrug, I guess it could be just my banana fingers?) ÂÂE1/31/02 VF4 Vanessa Stuff

    Wish list: Sure would like to see Alan Tan Vanessa Guide
     
  5. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    So, taking from this, its possible, with certain throws, to do them on an opponent while they are staggered?
    In 3 tb, if you hit with a side kick/elbow while the opp. was crouching, that gave a throw attempt while they were staggered back (correct?) and certain throws like Jeffery d+p+k would give a throw...so this is the same in 4? Does every character have a stagger-->throw follow up?
     
  6. LittleWild

    LittleWild Well-Known Member

    While a character is staggering (with the joystick animation at the side), it is not possible to throw him unless you input the throw command with perfect timing. (ie. The moment before the joystick animation disappears)

    For example, after you hit the opponent with a move that causes him to bang against the wall, he will be in a staggering motion, but you cannot throw him immediately, if you do, a throw whiff animation will occur.
     
  7. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    The only exception to this rule I know is wolf's b+p stagger.

    Even non-struggleable (?) stagger like Vanessa's neutral P reversal, cannot be thrown although Vanessa has HUGE frame advantage. In fact, for Wolf, p(MC), throw is not possible if you do it fast cuz your throw will whiff (I think, for PS2).
     
  8. Jason Cha

    Jason Cha Well-Known Member

    "In fact, for Wolf, p(MC), throw is not possible if you do it fast cuz your throw will whiff (I think, for PS2)."

    This is also true of Akira as well. However, for such a situation, I believe his catch throw is an excellent option.

    -Jason
     
  9. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    For throw follow ups, what options does Sarah and Jacky have?
     
  10. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    Let's see if I remember correctly...

    Sarah
    -----------
    P+G, no follow up
    b+P+G, no follow up, unless opponent's back is near a wall when executed (but not a wall throw). Then d/f+K is guaranteed.
    b+P+G (wall throw), d/f+K is guaranteed
    f,d/b+P+G, d/f+K is guaranteed
    b,f+P+G, no follow up
    f,f+P+G, no follow up
    u/f+P+G, no follow up
    FL P+G, d/f+K is guaranteed (I think) when done with opponent's back to wall.
    FL 270+P+G, d/f+K is guaranteed (I think) when done with opponent's back to wall
    FL d+K hit throw, no follow up
    FL K+G hit throw, no follow up
    Side throw, no follow up is guaranteed, though d/f+K will connect unless they struggle pretty hard.
    Back throw, no follow up is guaranteed.

    Jacky
    -----------
    P+G, d/f+K is guaranteed
    d/f+P+G, no follow up
    f,b+P+G, no follow up is guaranteed
    d/f,d/f+P+G, d/f+K is guaranteed if they don't TR
    f,f+P+G, no follow up
    f,f+P+G (wall throw), no follow up
    Side throw, d/f+K is guaranteed
    Back throw, no follow up
     
  11. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Awesome, thanks for the info, but I think (unless I am reading this wrong, just got done with boxing, so my head isn't all there) this is not quite what I was asking..what throws (if any) can jacky and sarah do to a staggered opponent?
     
  12. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    ...in the beginning experiment with multi-motion throws... and you will get the timing down without losing the throw window. <font color=blue>Jacky</font color=blue>
    ex.: df,df+P+G
    if you are early in your execution and only df+P+G is acceptable command you still get a throw.
    (^^)
     
  13. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    awesome, thanks a bunch.
     
  14. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    what throws (if any) can jacky and sarah do to a staggered opponent?

    You cannot throw a staggering opponent. If you see the shaking joystick animation, throws are not going to work. You have to wait until the stagger ends. Catch throws are useful because they have a built in delay, but I can't confirm if Sarah can do elbow(stagger) --> uf+P+G or P-sidekick(stagger) --> uf+P+G because I haven't tested them... <nudge-nudge, hint-hint> For the most part, however, I've been following Sarah's elbow stagger with another elbow-knee into b+K flamingo okizemi.

    elbow(stagger) --> f,f --> f+PK --> b+K into flamingo --> u+K | d+K+G(thanks Genie) | etc

    With Jacky, if you stagger with elbow or ff+K, the df,df+P+G throw is a good choice because you can crouch dash in (hold the second df) and wait to tap P+G, or change it up to combo an opponent very easily. But to be honest, you can choose any throw you want by just dashing after the staggered opponent and timing your throw input to come out when the stagger ends. Your betting on your opponent to block after the stagger, because if he attacks he'll probably beat your throw. But you have all the initiative here, and if you got a stagger then dashed in and did a knee, you would major counter any attack that he tried.
     
  15. Genie47

    Genie47 Well-Known Member

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    elbow(stagger) --> f,f --> f+PK --> b+K into flamingo --> u+K | d+K+G(thanks Genie) | etc

    <hr></blockquote>

    You are welcome! /versus/images/icons/smile.gif BTW, I have "graduated" from using the above to: f+PK > b/d+K > b+K into FL > d+K+G. Surprisingly still very stable for lightweights to middle weights plus more damage. For heavies like Wolf and Jeff, I backroll escape after the b+K or revert to the chain mentioned by you.

    Pd+K > uf+P+G seems to work on humans if they struggle hard to defend. Not so on KUMITE. They have this knack for d+P or crouching after the stagger. The sidekick recovery is slightly longer than the elbow and allows for the uf+P+G without delay or am I slower than everyone? /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif
     
  16. a_l_e_x

    a_l_e_x Active Member

    Re: throwing a punch-MCed opponent

    Is this guaranteed? Quite a few times I got interupted by opponent's punch/low punch followed by throws, even though I presses punch immediately after the MC. Tried crouching to avoid the throw, no good either.
    So I tried on other ppls, seems effective too.

    Regarding the original post, during the stagger opponent can't be thrown, but i think u can time it near 'almost' the end of it. The throw actually seems to 'linger' a while and you can see the opponent recover 'into' the throw. I saw this with Vanessa's f+P+G, which I don't think is a catch throw.
     
  17. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Awesome, thanks...as soon as I am able to actually play the damn game (there are no machines in VT or Maryland)...I will definatly test this out...
     

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