tier list

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Kimble said:
BTW, i don't even know what Arcadia's tier list is. I came to those conclusions after watching many many VF vids myself.

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Arcadia Tier List for Evo

Top Tier
Akira
Sarah
Lau
Jacky
Pai
Kage

Middle Tier
Aoi
Lei Fei
Shun
Vanessa
Lion

Bottom
Goh
Jeffry
Brad
Wolf

I can't remember the order of players but i do remember the players in which tier. I think it's on srk's site but can't remember where

 

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BTW, i don't even know what Arcadia's tier list is. I came to those conclusions after watching many many VF vids myself.

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It's sad that you come to your conclusions based of watching video. A good tip is to play a character you have trouble against (just cause you do have trouble with a certain matchup doesn't mean there isn't someone who loves it) in order to learn his weaknesses. Take Lau for example; after playing him for a while you will be amazed at how slow his launchers are other then and how 2_3 now is high (when it was mid earlier) so it's trouble punishing those who recover low with good, garanteed, damage. Watching videos wouldnt give you a clue about things like that at all.

Jide: That tier list was posted in the beginning of this thread by Kimheng. I'm suprised Kimble didn't come into contact with it then tbh.

/KiwE

 

I started the game with Lei Fei and now i play several so i do know what it's like to play as those characters. I watch the vids simply to see how the characters can be played to the fullest extent. There's nothing sad about that. Unless you think you have the skills to show me a character at its best.

I honestly didn't realise the tier list was posted at the beginning of this thread. I just looked at the posts again carefully and now i can see it was posted as a url. I'm sorry i missed it but there's no need to be sarcastic my friend.

 

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Kimble said:

Itabashi is like Sampras. He can play a lower tier character and win simply because he's in a different skill class.

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When was the last time you played Itabashi or at least you saw him playing against any of U.S or western players? I'd say postivitely never! Then don't state your false assumption as if you are stating a fact just for the sake of an argument. You were not there and saw nothing. /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

I was just trying to make an analogy. Since you were there, do you agree that Itabashi played at a different level than you and others? Or do you think the skill difference was negligible?

 

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maddy said:
You were not there and saw nothing. /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


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Don't worry from this statement maddy is trying to hide the pain of Zangief /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

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Exypher said:

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Neonomide said:
Oh, I didn´t see any Akiras or Kages in top 9 in Evo 2k4.

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Look harder.

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Thanks. There were to ones. Two excellent ones.

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_optimus_ said:

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Neonomide said:

They do not make the game downright unfair, just more interesting to watch. In the end, most players out there are not Chibitas in terms of pure skill level and people tend to fool around especially when they are winning. VF is a game full of surprises.

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No they don't mak the game downright unfair, just unfair at certain situations.
Are you trying to say there are no tiers?
The clone point does make it easier to understand as I was just trying to show that people of equal ability (I picked Chibita at random could have been anyone) if they were to train up and start on day 1 with a certain character would that person have an equal percentage against themselves, i.e what I think your saying is that tiers don't exsist to the extent that they affect match outcomes, so the clones would have close to 50% win ratio against each other if say one used Goh and the other Akira. I think we all know the case on that one.

As for Street Fighter World Warrior now that game IS downright unfair but fun!!! /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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As usual, this matter has been discussed before. Those players that are really top at their game (ie. character) can kick just about anyone´s a$$ in VF. that means in VF, one has an ability to win an opponent even if he has "a better character". Judging from the point of all fighting games, I don´t think VF has tiers as most people consider what tiers mean. So you are totally entitled to your opinion in this case, as am I. Thanks.

SF II WW still rocks, even with some of the most obvious tiers in history. Tiers do not make the best game. Not that SF II is anymore the best game, but... /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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vanity said:

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Exypher said:

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Neonomide said:
Oh, I didn´t see any Akiras or Kages in top 9 in Evo 2k4.

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Look harder.

[/ QUOTE ] I'm not exactly sure what that guy was smoking .

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I thinks it was an "anti-tier joint weed". I´m pretty clear now, thanks! /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Kimble said:

1. Itabashi Zangief (Shun Di, Japan)
2. Shou (Sarah, St. Louis, USA) - Top Tier
3. Kurita (Vanessa, Japan)
4. Ryan (Kage, UK) - Top Tier
5. Raoh (Lau, Japan) - Top Tier
5. Adam (Jeffry, NYC, USA)
7. Cappo (Pai, Florida, USA) - Top Tier
7. Maddy (Akira, Ohio, USA) - Top Tier

Keep in mind that Itabashi and Kurita are in a different class just like last year with Ohsu and Chibita.

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So you are saying that top tier in VF consists of at least from Lau, Akira, Kage, Sarah and Pai? Can I see the whole list, please...

 

What whole list are you talking about? No Jacky? Please don't confuse top tier with automatic winning. Top tier doesn't guarantee winning. A bad player using Dural will lose to a good player using Goh. I'll lose to Michael Phelps in swimming even if he lets me lead him 25m in the pool.

 

ok, another way to look at it is this.
(totally theory).

a computer A.I. system is built to maximise character 1 and character two.
make the two A.I. fight.
now if both are performing to maximun level, (meaning we have taken away the element of player skill), surely the winning character is better.
the only way i can see Tiers being an issue is when two people of equal skill level play. i can play my brothers Kage all day with my Jeff and no pick up a win, but when i play with my Jacky, i can come out about average. this is coz Jeff is much worse than Jacky ON PAPER!

 

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Ev2 said:

ok, another way to look at it is this.
(totally theory).

a computer A.I. system is built to maximise character 1 and character two.
make the two A.I. fight.
now if both are performing to maximun level, (meaning we have taken away the element of player skill), surely the winning character is better.
the only way i can see Tiers being an issue is when two people of equal skill level play. i can play my brothers Kage all day with my Jeff and no pick up a win, but when i play with my Jacky, i can come out about average. this is coz Jeff is much worse than Jacky ON PAPER!

[/ QUOTE ] Or maybe because you're just better with jacky?

 

yes, this is true, but my points are made with the intention of ignoring/removing player skill. my main point was the first one.

 

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a computer A.I. system is built to maximise character 1 and character two.
make the two A.I. fight.

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Thus proving once and for all that Lion is absolute toptier since Chibita always gets into final 3 in the WMACII tourney /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

/KiwE

 

yes quite.

In response to ev2. Apparently wolf is bottom tier (according to arcadia) and yet against a human opponent I am much better with Wolf than with Aoi for instance who is apparently middle tier. And even if I were to practice with Jacky for 8hrs per day for years I doubt I would be any better because I hate jacky even though he is apparently top tier. I don't doubt the existence of the tiers because if things are different you are rarely going to get them to be precisely equal, especially when you are dealing with a system of this sort of complexity, but really guys get over it. Yes there are tiers, but really they have such limited relevance to me personally as a player that it is barely worth thinking about.

by the way, taking out skill is a ridiculous concept. VF is built around skill and for any character to be effective (top or bottom tier) they must be used with skill. to say that one character beat another character when neither were used with skill is completly meaningless. And in terms of the computer A.I. maximising both characters, who is to say that the AI is not better able to maximise one than the other, simply through it's own flaws. Better to go by what KiWe was saying (tongue in cheek I know, and I am by no means advocating this) and just look at tournament results because at least there the characters were played with skill.

 

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a computer A.I. system is built to maximise character 1 and character two.
make the two A.I. fight.
now if both are performing to maximun level, (meaning we have taken away the element of player skill), surely the winning character is better.

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The answer, ironically, will be Wolf, who can inflict the most amount of damage per guess. But isn't he supposed to be bottom tier?

I think at the end of the day, none of us here know the game well enough to name definitive tiers. Tiers definitely exist--differences inevitably arise when not every character is exactly the same--but I think it's pretty clear in VF that it's the person that earns the victory, not the character.

 

...Which is why people play VF. I'm sick of feeling obligated to learn a certain character in other fighting games because that specific character is just stronger.

 

so true - i so hated the shotos, but had to learn them out of necessity. good thing i got out of the SF scene before blanka/sagat dominance rolled around. i won't bother mentioning mvc2 tiering...

 

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ice-9 said:

I think at the end of the day, none of us here know the game well enough to name definitive tiers.

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The truth.

 

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agios_katastrof said:

good thing i got out of the SF scene before blanka/sagat dominance rolled around.

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But I'm sure you will agree that CvS2 is nonetheless a great game to play against human comp... (Screw Tiers... Go K-Geese, Sagat, Yama)

Try HSF:ae, no Blanka and Sagat dominance there. (Although I understand that your post was more related to Character dominance per se, rather than specifically to Blanka and Sagat (Go cr.F))

 

Yah... CvS2 is a great game... I have much more fun with it than GGXX, the latter of which is "better", but just not as "fun".

Don't want to turn this into a SRK thread, but go go N/C Guile, Gief + whoever.

 

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I think at the end of the day, none of us here know the game well enough to name definitive tiers.

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Well, since I'm older then everyone, I must inflict some wisdom. I've come to the (correct) conclusion that tiers truly do exist, but are on a personal level. Some people suck at throw escapes (Wolf and Aoi are probably not your best opponents). SOme people can't handle Lion & Pai's extremely well-diversed move set (divsersed between high, mid, and low). Others can't handle Lei Fei's dancing, or Lau & Jacky's pure offensive. It's all on a personal level.

There is, worth a mention, the fact that there's a Japanese word called "Chara-gachi" (pronounced kyaragachi) which basically means your character does all the work for you. Take a wild guess at the 2-3 characters it's aimed at... even by the people using them.