"Tiger knee" half-circle throw motions

I've been playing a bit of SFIV ( boo hiss /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif ) at the local arcade ( http://www.arcadeufo.com , yay ) lately. Anyway, for SFIV they changed spinning piledriver motions such that you can "tiger knee" a half-circle motion instead of doing a full 360: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will get you the spd. This is nice not only because its a shorter / easier motion, but on a square gate the corner gives you a distinct reference on when to push the buttons.

I noticed that the same thing works for jeff's half-circle forward and back throws: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif works fine. It doesn't make the motion any shorter, but it does make sure that you don't press p+g a little too early (like at /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif) & get the wrong throw by accident. Especially on dashing throws, you can just slam the stick in the general vicinity of down, then an opposite up corner & press p+g as you feel the corner make contact.

If you've ever missed a half-circle throw, try it out, see what you think.

 

Re: "Tiger knee" half-circle throw motions

this is old news. you can do that in ST KoD. itazan showed us at chinatown fair in NYC. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

as far as VF is concerned. when i do F5, i always do it with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

i think i do this to ensure F5 comes out 100% of the time...i dunno. i just do it like this...

 

Yah this is archaic stuff but congratulations on your personal discovery. I was shown that by my brother like 20 years ago..........







Fuck I'm old.

 

Re: "Tiger knee" half-circle throw motions

I remember you used to be able to do stuff like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif for the 360's in Street Fighter.

I do F5 like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, barely comes out for me any other way.

 

I was under the impression that you had to do at least 270 degrees (or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif) in ST to get the SPD, not 225 degrees. As for half-circle forward, back; I know there are some 2d games where that works, but if that already worked in ST why is it being listed as a change for HD remix http://www.capcom-unity.com/jimmyrey/blog/2008/10/07/final_changelist_for_hd_remix . . . . At any rate, standing SPDs are fuck-off easier in SFIV compared to ST.

 

Re: "Tiger knee" half-circle throw motions

It definitely worked in Alpha 3, 100% sure. Pretty sure it works in the others too. That hcb hcb f way for doing the super version worked in Alpha 3 too.

 

Feck, i never really played alpha or later capcom games, so i wouldn't know.

I dunno flash & twp, if this "old news" and "archaic stuff", do you have anything to back that up? Have you guys actually played ST and SF4 side-by-side recently? I tried walk up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif on ST last night, and it just got me a green hand. It really feels like you have to get the 7th directional input in. Didnt go to the trouble of setting up an emulator macro at home to test it but . . .

http://www.capcom-unity.com/s-kill/blog/...part_16_zangief "the original 360 command (which actually only requires 270 degrees, fyi) is still there too."

Anyway, off topic blah blah. Point is the motion works on VF5, and is more reliable in some ways.

 

I've bee trying method of doing zangif's SPD in SFCE for the 360 and I can't seem to get it to work. I find using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif to come out reliably though.

 

Re: "Tiger knee" half-circle throw motions

you callin itazan a liar kOD? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

im sure Shag can enlighten us here...

 

No way! It's always been that the 360 has to at least go from back to up-back so /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

The super in Alpha and every other game so far (except the Capcom vs XXX games and the like) was a 720... Even being able to do it on command is a huge accomplishment. To do it standing, without jumping, on command is even harder. The new motion is something that is only in ST HD Remix, I have no idea how it's done in SFIV.

I think the point is essentially to make the game less about inputs and more about mind games. This could be seen as a trend, looking at VF5R for example. They've simplified A LOT of commands. Since Sirlin has been a big part of it, he thinks that if everyone can do every move, on command, the game will be better and more balanced.

It's obviously going to still be very input based with the 2-in-1's and cancels. SF will never be "easy" to play... I have to admit that I do agree with this thinking to an extent. I'm sure some people will disagree completely, but I think the DLC is too hard to do. I know part of the mystique is just being able to buffer it in, but if you really can't do it, it doesn't help you at all; you may as well not even have the move at all.

If I'm using Zangief and I can't do the 720 (I don't think most people can) then my Zangief is inherently weak and butt. If the move is only slightly easier to do, I can use it, and bring my game to a higher level. Since this thread is about the Tiger Knee, that's another motion they changed (it will be a Dragon Punch with any /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif), I couldn't do it too well either, so agree with that too.

I'm not agreeing with Sirlin's "let me get to the Yomi" bull shit, but to an extent, it's probably worth it, for the community as a whole, to make the inputs just slightly easier to bring in more potential players.

 

I've always done SPD in SF games as or + P. 270 degrees. (Btw, as a bit of trivia it's also possible to do the SPD cutting down on inputs by doing like + P or + P. Left, Right, Up and Down are like "the keys" the game sees for the SPD's to come out. Although I would have to say it is quicker to "roll" the motions rather than to press each direction individually.

Another thing about SPD's is that they can actually start with any direction as well. So you can start at then 270 from there anti clockwise or clockwise and etc.

 

He's wrong without question. I tested this out with a programmable controller and a CPSII board running ST a few years ago to confirm some of T.Akiba's data.

To do a standing command throw (or '360') in ST with either Zangief or T.Hawk you must do a full 270 motion ending the with the joystick facing upward (or at 8). Remember this is from neutral standing and not from a jump or tap which allows for a different directional ending.

Zangief's jump animation is five frames in ST before he leavs the ground. So you have five frames (or 5/60) to hit or release a punch to get an SPD from standing neutral from the moment you complete a 270 motion. Here's what it looks like:

<= from the moment you hit 'up' you have five frames to input a punch or else Zangief jumps straight up. You can also start the motion from back (or 4) and rotate counterclockwise to up.

With T.Hawk it's even less fun to get a standing stormhammer, as Hawk's jump animation comes out in three frames. So you have 3/60 to hit or release a punch to get Hawk's throw off or else he jumps. That's why when T.Hawk players do a walk up throw in ST the crowd goes nuts. It's VERY hard. Hawk requires furious execution but then again who doesn't in ST...

In SFIV you can tiger knee for SPDs and in ST:HDR you can do QCF,B+P or QCB,F+P to get a throw. With HDR's new commands you never press an up direction so you avoid jumping because of command overlap. It makes playing HDR less hardcore.

The difference between VF and other games is that easier commands doesn't mean softer game play.

Wolf has a df,df+p+g throw which is his hardest command in that direction and does the most damage. Then he has b,df+p+g which is the second hardest command with second highest damage. Then df+p+g, easier command, least damage.

With Wolf, and Virtua Fighter, you penalize players for using easier commands. It's another layer of depth that VF has on many other games.

Sirlin doesn't understand anything about prohibitive difficulty in terms of execution. He made Tiger Knees and 360s easier but left safe jumps, reversals, safe reversals, reversal throws, renda-cancels, 2-in-1s, and links as difficult as they were in ST without changing them.

He didn't say a game with easy inputs is more balanced. He said it means that more people will play the game over the long term. Which is a joke because ST is the golden fighting game of all time and it has some of the hardest inputs ever.

Ok....so practice, don't whine. Even then the DLC in VF5 has an easy motion to it. And the DLC is easier to do than the knee with maximum consistency in my opinion.

Not only that but VF sees your struggle and has a solution. Can't DLC? Then substitute 2+p,FCb,f+p for less damage. Or use AS3 or something else. What combo is there that doesn't have a slightly lower damage input than DLC?

In VF there are stance specific combos. Can't focus on stance enough? Then do a non stance specific combo in both open and closed for less damage. It's less to think about but you get less damage. There's a logical trade.

ST survived for 15 + years with having the hardest inputs. Guilty Gear isn't easier either and it has a strong scene. VF4 was #1 in Japan for years with being hard as hell to be good at. Starcraft is the #1 competitive video game in the world and it has the HIGHEST execution barrier of any game ever (APM).

Simplified commands = simplified game play = scrub mentality = way off topic from Jeffry Dojo!

 

I have to disagree with you on the difficulty of ST inputs.

"Standing" 360 with T. Hawk although it does indeed have a 3 frame window to press a button isn't nearly as hard as you make it out to be. I can do walk up/standing 360 all day long with T. Hawk, not trying to sound big headed or anything I don't even use T. Hawk but it's just the truth!

I used to be a big time ST player but not su much anymore, the only real difficult things in ST are the glitched back hits you see in many combo videos that use the aid of a programmable pad. As far as the execution goes in ST it's really nothing at all in actual play. Even though I rarely play ST anymore I bet bottom dollar I can put the game on and do true reversals and safe jumps all day long.

Anyway ST doesn't appeal to me whatsoever anymore. There's only so much you can take of each character having a playstyle with little lee-way. e.g. Ryu doing zoning traps, T. Hawk/Zangief doing safe jump, negative edge 360's so you can't reversal them even with DP-type moves and if you do attempt to, your move is blocked then the 360 punishes the recovery regardless.

ST overall is just too limited, you never see drastic changes in how a character is played.

That's just my 20 or so cents, anyway very off-topic for the Jeffry Dojo haha.