Tips on Stance Recognition

I was wondering if anyone out there had any tips for stance recognition. Not just for combos but in general because I know some moves have some weird properties depending on situation (timing) and stance. Any tips on what to watch (feet, back, etc.) and when to watch that (before or after hit of combo starter). I'd like to thank everyone in advance /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

The first thing I keyed on to watch stance was the relative positions of the bent leg. If the bent legs face each other, open...if not, closed. Actually, when I watch stance I notice open or not rather than closed or not for some reason, if that makes any sense at all. But yeah, for me the bent leg was the easiest thing to spot up.

I don't watch stance for Akira's much since the reward isn't really there unless I'm just not getting any pressure from my opponent at all, and where's the fun in that? If I do, I check after the flop rather than before...I do the same for Jacky's + & Lau's various flops. The rest of Akira's combo damage is of the float variety & for those I wait until the opponent is airborne to check stance...for recent Lion and Kage fights though I have been trying to force some open stance shoulders...these machinations have resulted in at least as much embarassment as niftyness. C'est la vf /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Anyways...hope this helps a little. I think when it comes down to it, one day I started watching stance whereas before I didn't.

 

I tried to get used to stance specific combos in practice mode but the effect seems to be random in this mode. Practice doesn't seem to take foot postion into account consistently.

Haven't other people noticed this?

 

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Shoju said:

I tried to get used to stance specific combos in practice mode but the effect seems to be random in this mode. Practice doesn't seem to take foot postion into account consistently.

Haven't other people noticed this?

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no, the properties of practice is the same of the properties of a normal fight as far as combos go.

 

I find looking at the backs easier than the feet. Back facing towards screen = closed. Back is facing away from the screen, you're in open stance.

Here's a tip when playing against the girls : if you can see their breasts that means they're in open stance /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Seriously though, If you want it to feel natural, go in practice mode and learn all your character's moves that makes him or her switch stance, learn them until you know all of them by heart and that you don't have to think about them too much when fighting. During a match it should take you a second to figure out whether you're in closed stance (back showing) or in open stance (chest showing). You're opponent is the one you have to pay attention to the most cuz you can't control them. So you also have to learn what moves he/she has that makes him/her change stance, that my friend is the pain in the ass part, the same way you know that this character's most dangerous throws are this and that, is the same way you have to know what moves he/she has that changes stance. FULL SCOUTING REPORT !

Lets say you're playing against Akira and you see him do or , you should automatically know that he changed stance. A good way to kinda practice this, is to record the moves of character X's that changes his or her stance and let him attack you while you block. In a match it'll be kinda confusing at first and you'll think about it alot ''ok he just did so I know he switched stance'' but after awhile it'll just feel natural, but man it's alot of memorizing ! Start by training against Akira, his moves are easy to recognize then move on to someone else. Might aswell practice that if you don't have anything else to focus on right now.

 

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ONISTOMPA said:

I find looking at the backs easier than the feet. Back facing towards screen = closed. Back is facing away from the screen, you're in open stance.

Here's a tip when playing against the girls : if you can see their breasts that means they're in open stance



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If their chest is facing you (ie you can see their breasts) then the stance can still be closed if your characters back is facing you right? I thought stances were the characters relations to each other and not just their relation to the screen

Open : both characters facing same way
Closed : One character facing one way, the other facing the other way.

Am I wrong about this?

 

You're right, my bad.

 

Ahhh good, you had me confused for a bit there.

 

I know this was discussed before in another thread but I can't seem to find it. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

i find watching torso thes easiest as well. see one back thats closed see two backs thats open and vice versa with stomachs.

 

On the subject of stance recognition, how reliable is it to check the opponent's stance after you've floated / flopped them? (I'm assuming that with crumples stance isn't usually a factor...except maybe on crumple, re-float with combos) Do you have to be really fast on the uptake recognizing their float/flop position if you're going to complete the combo? Or is it pretty obvious throughout the flop/float animation what stance they're in before you have to actually start the combo?

In short, the question I'm really asking is this: Is it more practical to develop the reflexes to recognize stance BEFORE starting a combo, or can you consistently get away with checking their stance AFTER starting the combo without many screw-ups?

 

I usually wait until after the move connects before I look at the foot position, but that's just my personal preference.

IMO, both methods require the same amount of (fast) reaction time.

 

just make sure you'r characters knee is touching/facing your opponents knee(*OPEN*), this is the easiest way for me. i usually take note of the stance as soon as the floater animation starts/hits.

 

KTD: Stance recognition also comes naturally when enough amount of practice is done. Spend 20 min a day in the training mode for doing stance specific combos over and over. When you get it down, it becomes easy. Practice to get familiar with the animation after moves hit. For example, you do K+G. There will be 4 different animations when it hits.

Youpponent

Back Back
Stomach Stomach
Back Stomach
Stomach back

Do it over and over to get used to the all four animations. As you know it only boils down to the 2 different combos in the end. (open and closed)

Good luck, and be calm when you miss them. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

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maddy said:

KTD: Stance recognition also comes naturally when enough amount of practice is done. Spend 20 min a day in the training mode for doing stance specific combos over and over. When you get it down, it becomes easy. Practice to get familiar with the animation after moves hit. For example, you do K+G. There will be 4 different animations when it hits.

Youpponent

Back Back
Stomach Stomach
Back Stomach
Stomach back


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You are wrong, my student. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif With 2 limbed moves such as Lei's ++ and Sarah's +, you cannot see the stance on hit because the move looks exactly the same in both stances so you need to see it before the move hits.

 

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Shou said:

[ QUOTE ]
maddy said:

KTD: Stance recognition also comes naturally when enough amount of practice is done. Spend 20 min a day in the training mode for doing stance specific combos over and over. When you get it down, it becomes easy. Practice to get familiar with the animation after moves hit. For example, you do K+G. There will be 4 different animations when it hits.

Youpponent

Back Back
Stomach Stomach
Back Stomach
Stomach back


[/ QUOTE ]

You are wrong, my student. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif With 2 limbed moves such as Lei's ++ and Sarah's +, you cannot see the stance on hit because the move looks exactly the same in both stances so you need to see it before the move hits.

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Come on my student. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif You are only partially right, as you don't have to see the stance before hand. K+G follow up includes in either stance, so as far as you get used to the animations, you are all set to go. That's how I do and feels fairly simple way for me.

Ready to move, Kun?

 

Come on young grasshoppers. I can do it without looking. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

I have been working on it HARD and have noticed the best way to do it is to keep log of it ALL THE TIME whether by back, feet, etc. It makes doing the combos alot easier and once u realize how to use properties of things differently in different stances, then it becomes alot more helpful. BTW, we should also have this thread be somewhat about special move properties in stance recognition based circumstances like Lau's + beating low punches in open.

 

One thing that used to piss me off big time was doing the + sabaki with Goh and seeing it whiff against Yoho. It either whiffs in open stance or sometimes, depending on the timing I guess, you simply got launched. I haven't really tested it much but I also know that Goh's shrm has different properties depending on stance.

PS. I messed around with the + sabaki (in open stance) and noticed that it works against yoho only if you delay it a little. But it's still kinda risky if you ask me.

 

I think that you've found the best way by yourself: to watch stance all the time. In the end, I think it's easier to know what stance you're in before you perform your combo starter; in fact, this lets me work to set up certain combos in purpose. For example:

If I'm fighting Vanessa in open stance, I'll usually try to set up the big "b,f+P-low P-yoho-biako" combo, because I know it's easy to do on Vanessa and does big damage. At the same time, I know that the 94 point shoulder combo and some other open-only combos are available.

since I know I'm in open stance already, I don't have to bother thinking about which launcher/will it change stance (for Aki, it doesn't matter, more on that in a sec)/what the float or flop looks like etc. This frees you up to do the more difficult combos in the game, you can focus simply on proper combo input right away without stance checking.

there are a few things to watch out for, though:

I think Onistompa mentioned moves that change the character's stance, like Aki's Middle Kick. This is important to think about, and there's an added depth there: some moves will change the oppt's stance as well on hit/counter hit.

I don't know all of these/their rules, but I do know that on Mcounter hit, Aki's middle kick changes the oppt's stance as well. So, while Aki's middle kick changes his stance, on MCounter hit, you'll be in the same stance you were before (open or closed). If both your backs are facing the screen when he makes his middle kick, after the counter hit, both your fronts will be facing the screen. This is why I personally think it's best to watch the feet.

Another example, Aki's Single Palm, and it's canned P. The normal single palm is similar to the middle kick, but on any hit, it will change the oppt's stance, not Aki's. So, this move is a stance changer on hit. But, the canned P changes Aki's stance, so that like the middle kick, after it hits, you'll be in the same stance you started in (if the oppt doesn't change stance while getting up). Conversely, if you guard this move, you'll be in the opposite stance that you were before.

Another point to remember is that some launchers change YOUR stance, and some don't. Knees are a good example, and a lot of the flop attacks do as well. For Aki, the only moves I can think of at the moment where this is a facter are the SDE on normal hit and the b+P+K+G- f+P. But, for characters like Lau and Brad, it's really crutial that you watch stance ALL THE TIME. Here's why:

both these guys (and I'm sure some others) have moves that produce a flop for good combos, and both can do this from a High AND a Mid attack. Here's the catch: both Brad and Lau's High flopper (Brad's Lightning Elbow & Lau's Standing Palm) change their stance on execution. Both their Mid floppers (Brad's d+P+K, f+P and Lau's D-b,f+P) DON'T change their stance.

The same combos are available by and large (I think that Lau has more combos available from his "DblPm", right?) from both starters, and most of these tools are great mC combo starters (again, Lau's DblPm being the exception here). So, it's really important to know stance before the combo starts, as an mC Lightining Elbow in Closed stance requires a different combo from an mC d+P+K, f+P in closed stance; in addition, mC High flopper and mC mid floppers in this case are applicable against very different kinds of attacks: those that recover high and those that recover crouching, since the Lighting Elbow/Single Palm will only work on one type. If you know the stance early (while you're Guarding, or even before the oppt's attack) you've got more time to deal with making the correct combo ender.

Also, after a QR or TR, the stance should stay the same, which you can take advantage of.

Spotlite