To Experienced Players: Sarah

This isn't a gameplay or command question but I just wanted to ask players who've player alot of Sarah players.

What seperates the great and good sarah players from well knowledgable but still newbie sarah players like me?

You know like mindgame tools and the things they do that put them over the top. I'm from the doa community (for those that didn't know that) and generally the only difference between the good players in mind games is that better players are just good holders and also are capable of punishing low holds better.

I play at AI (tho I myself haven't made it to the thursday meets) and I've haven't seen a sarah player so I don't really know what the really good sarah players do. I just follow what I learn from EVO tutorials.

I like VF alot and the community reminds me of DoA except slightly smaller and not as stupid.

 

Get in touch with Goatcheeseblues from this board. He plays Sarah, and plays at AI.

 

Thanx, I've read that thread It's a good read, but alot of times it's good to get input from other players on specifics. I remember talking to guys in doa saying "Yeah his Ein is really good, he does this and this to trick you into eating this combo."

I really wish I could make it to AI on thursdays but due to job complications and transportation problems I haven't been able to yet, but if I do I'll look for that player. If there was one thing that helped me in doa it was watching other players use my character.

 

A good friend of mine plays Sarah as his main and has done since the beginning of Evo and I've seen him develop a style that I think most good Sarahplayers use while playing probably 1-2k matches against him. Of course you would have to play a ton of Sarah's to make assumptions, which probably nobody in the West does but here goes nothing;

DC DC DC DC. Knowing how to use it well. Doing delayattacks with DC to catch evaders, small diss backdash > DC. RN with DC. ECD>DC. DC when you think a 2p is coming. Using it as a whiffpunish and it's specialproperties going under stuff. On guard (which it shouldn't be often), being able to handle p-throw and other things.

Playing safe. FL abuse works on a very basic level, but it's definatly not safe and good Sarah players probably work more and more away from it - she doesn't need it. Elbows, small attacks, hitscanning. Yomi and throwing alot.

Correct nitaku, taking all guaranteed dmg, using shit that's annoying like 2p+k, k hitscanning first hit and not doing the second otherwise, catching evaders with it (WHY DOES IT DO THAT?), abusing the bugg that Brad can't punish it with 6p+k...

Safe play in general, p-throw, p-elbow, 6p>backdash / evade KP mixed up with 2p+k and DC and stuff and little tricks are very hard to beat if the Sarah has a somewhat good defensive base. Flamingo and big moves aren't.

Good solid foundation - it's always the difference between a good player and someone who isn't; the basics.

 

I see, I'll admit I like FL a little too much for my own good and against players at AI I end up using the flip kick and special high kick alot.

However I didn't know 2P+K was so good, I know you get a combo on CH, but the move seems kind of laggy and I have a hard time fishing for a CH.

 

Some FT differences of what Kiwe has told you:

DC has shorter range, and evade DC is not really useful in FT because of the changed evade.

 

Since you're planning to make the party this Friday, you'll have a good chance to get games in with GoatCheeseBlues (Brian). He excels at giving VF advice and Sarah specifics without making you feel like an idiot.

 

Do you guys organize meetings at a specific arcade avery week? thats cool, i really wish i could attend. i just recently got into gaming and VF, and i know that there is one arcade in a mall about 20mins. drive. however, im pretty sure they dont have VF there /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif wish i could live where u guys are living.

 

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EXM said:
I like VF alot and the community reminds me of DoA except slightly smaller and not as stupid.

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wow...i didn't know that DOA is more popular than VF. from my understanding, i believe that tekken players hate DOA, but i didn't know that DOA is more popular than VF. interesting.....

 

Hey EXM, its good to see new players in our area with your level of interest in vf : ) We've actually changed our weekly meets at AI to Wednesdays. Hopefully that fits your schedule better.

I know exactly how you feel. There's about as much Sarah information on this site now, as there was when I first picked her up 4-5 years ago...not enough : ) I guess nows as good a time as any to start adding to it.

I found that my Sarah is most effective when I am attacking/throwing all the time, and putting constant pressure on my opponent. In order to do this, you need to have pretty good hit checking, and decent defensive skills (knowing when to sidestep, backdash, throw escape, etc)

KiwE's post is dead on. Backdash into anything is almost a requirement for having a constant attack. I'll just explain it a bit more. A normal attack pattern is to start with Sarahs faster moves (jab, elbow) and to keep doing them until your opponent blocks one of them. Now just look at what move the opponent just blocked. If it's the first part of a string (p part of p,d+k, or f+p part of f+p,p) you can either throw them (they are expecting you to finish the string), or finish the string to counter their attacks (they thought you were going to throw) Now if you decide to finish the string and your opponent blocks it all, you're still in good shape. If they respond with a quick short range move (punch, low punch, elbow) a backdash will make their move wiff, leaving them open to dragon cannon, serpent (d+p+k, k), or b+k flamingo death. Backdash into b+k is a pretty safe bet. If they tried to low punch, they stagger into a guaranteed df+p,k. Even if they block the b+k you are at advantage. (*bonus help*- use b,b,f,b+k to quickly b+k after backdash without doing Sarah's b,b+k) Dragon cannon is the most damaging option, but is also the riskiest. If your opponent blocks it, you're constant stream of attacks ends right there and your opponent gets to smack you around for a bit. This is a very common choice with Sarah. You can normally go for big damage, (even with something as simple as f+p, delay, k) or you can play it safe and keep poking ( f+p, delay, p instead). Thats why Sarah's d+p+k, k is such a strong move. It has the damage potential of Dragon Cannon, with the safety of string poking. If you ever hit the first part of Sarah's d+p+k,k, the second kick will always launch for a full damage combo, even when delayed at its maximum (at least every time I've ever done it) So you have enough time to hit check the first kick. If it hits, press k again and combo. If it's blocked, you can continue with the strategies above. You'll be surprised how often you can hit backdash, d+p+k, *blocked*, backdash, d+p+k, k, super combo of doom.

Well thats a standard attack pattern. Obviously there are a lot more variables and options, but I hope it illustrates the process. There are holes in this type of offense, and thats where you'll need a strong defense. There are times (a lot actually) where a well timed low punch will catch you right in-between your pokes. You have to recognize this right away and change to a defensive technique (guard, evade, backdash dragon cannon!)

Another key point in this style of attack is to use all of Sarah's moves. You do not want your opponent to recognize your attack patterns. Luckily, Sarah has a lot of moves that serve a similar purpose. Lets say you want to jab. You can choose from p; df+p; b,b+p; and f+p+k. Each of those moves have slightly different properties and different followups/setups afterwards. So even though you are basically just jabbing, It's a lot harder for your opponent to keep track of your attacks. It also helps to use a weird move to set up throws. Most people can recognize jab throw and get out of it, but if I df+p, throw, I have a lot more success.

As for flamingo, it's golden. Outside of d+p+k, k and p, d+k (staggertastic in evo), flamingo is the only reason I'd play Sarah over the other super attack/pressure characters. In the attack pattern I explained above, you are slowly putting yourself in greater disadvantage. p -> block = +1; p, d+k - > block = -5 (-7 in evo); p, d+k, backdash, dragon cannon -> block = dead. But if you replace dragon cannon with b+k, b+p+k, or p+k, now all of the sudden you're at advantage! You can even start over with p again.

Well I hope that helps a bit. If I see you at AI or at Plague's house, i'd be more than happy to go over more stuff with you.

Brian

 

Thanks Brian, after playing sarah with more humans alot of your advice helped. Still have to iron some basic core areas such as my TE and Evades but adding backdashing and more general poking has definately helped my game.

Also in FT Sarah's pokes like + aren't as good as they were before, and DC has shorter range (at least it feels like it). So how would I play her in that game?

 

I'm glad it helped! Here's what i've noticed in FT. They took away a lot of Sarah's combo potential. Dragon cannon range is a lot shorter, but it will still hit after a backdash. They also added a few extra frames after sidestep, so sidestep dragon cannon hits a lot less. k, p no longer launches on minor counter, which is a big loss in my opinion. Sarah no longer has a good 14 frame punisher. d+k+g only crumples on red counter now. So using that move to beat high punch is very unrewarding. Luckily, I see no difference with d+p+k, k. The first kick is now throw counterable on block. but I have yet to be thrown in such a situation : ) So I end up using d+p+k, k the most.

I also noticed that you use df+p, k a lot in FT, which is a lot worse than it is in evo. It is now -1 on block instead of +4. It is still +4 on hit though, so It works exactly the same as before as long as you are hitting the guy.

Hmm, my break just ended right now, so i'll tell you Sarahs good stuff in my next post

 

Yeah I started to cut down my usage of d/fPK in my game, tho I severly miss that move. : ( I'm trying to use bK in my poking games more since it's still good, and it's cool to see that the Sabaki is now frame advantage on block. : ) Just printed out the FT frame data and trying to take a look at it and keep some key moves in mind.

Another thing is does Sarah have ANY safe low pokes? Everytime dG+K or d/fG+K gets blocked I get KILLED, is d/fG+K the same thing?

 

There's almost no such thing as safe low in VF.... lows in general carry much more risk than other hit level moves overall.

2K+G is not really used as a poke but more as a combo launcher, it's more more useful to use 1K as a low poke.
If you are committing to a strong low guess, it's more effective to use her 3K+G sweep for a knockdown.

 

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There's almost no such thing as safe low in VF.... lows in general carry much more risk than other hit level moves overall.

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Just to expand on why lows are more risky. (Srider knows this, but he just wanted to move to another point) They can only be defended in a low guard which for some lows (ever play against Lion?) take reaction time. Furthermore most lows produce a knockdown which in turn gives huge advantage to the attacker to continue pressuring for okizeme.

Factor that into a fuzzy guarding opponent. Low attacks will be successful vs this type of player. The big risk however, is to discourage abuse.

 

Okay than, it just seems weird to me the huge amount of risk involved in 2K+G cause it's really punishable on block and leaves you at significant disadvantage on hit too.

I'm trying to find good moves at mid/long range, I end up too far away from my opponent and all of my long reach options have a ton of risk involved.

 

Yeah, think of 2K+G is that risky due to its combo potential.

For mid range moves, sarah has her flamingo entry moves. P+K, 4K, 4P+K, even P.

 

lows in general has to be risky, because it's such an important mixup in VF, infact it's actually most useful against an abare player, or a technical defender i.e somebody who looks at a defensive situation technically like -2 fuzzy guard, or tech roll fuzzy guard. circular lows are essential to stop players from using technical evade techniques and ingeneral mess up their momentum~

lows are practically most useful in this order (in my oppinion)

- as a high crush (to intercept an opponent's high attack)
- as a stagger followup
- as a circular anti-techroll / center rise mixup

if a low attack is safe~ (lion's db+k+g, goh's b,df+p)
then consider it one of the most important moves in their game as they can fuzzy guard to rise and be almost untouchable~ preferably in lion's case he's in a better position to attack~