Top 10 Moves?

I wouldn't consider it great. Its sorta slow. PK guarantee on block doesn't give you that much damage.

But on side-turn you get 46P on block.

 

Fulan man, you CAN'T block a low throw ever for one, so you absolutely get a free attempt at one during this roll. Also, you cannot block mid attacks when crouching, therefore they can't block it.

After a face down, head towards tech roll, you HAVE TO go through crouching frames as you begin setanding up. The timing is fairly strict, but they cannot avoid either option if you executed your move with the right timing.

I'm not sure why you're saying, "can't they just block" because you obviously can't block a throw period, and you can never block a mid when crouched. I've tested this and think a low throw attempt is your best option.

It's dangerous to roll from that position, and just like vanilla, where they couldn't block the OM+P leading to the back stagger during their tech roll, they can't block your mid. I'm 110% positive you get a free low throw because I've done it many times (there's a whole thread about guaranteed low throws and this is one of the ways you can get one.

 

they are vulnerable to low throws sure (never disputed that, but you get a low throws off of other knockdown positions too) but they can block mids.

set the cpu to guard and do a max charge 4p+k into 3p+k. this gives you a face down head toward knockdown and has the cpu blocking upon getting up. it's easy to get a low throw but it will block mids.

(the reason im talking about blocking is because the subject was mid attacks from this knockdown position, not low throws).

 

Fulan,

You are right about them being able to block miss off the tech. It seems like you get a free low throw attempt on ANY tech roll, doesn't seem to be specific to the position they fall to the ground in; apparently they have to go through a few crouching frames before they fully stand up after rolling. You even get a low throw attempt off the face up feet towards roll.

 

I'm gonna have to disagree with you, yes it's slow but if you predict a guard and get it (plus the follow up), once you get it it really mindfucks your opponent. THEN, if you opponent tries to attack you you can get em with a back turned P+K. WHICH turns THEM around. Gimmicky? Yes. Affective? Yes.

 

^
I'm gonna agree with Shag and say 236P+K is not that great simply because there is no damaging follow ups. If it was Akira's high guard break start up speed then hands down I would be recommending/praising it all the time disregarding how measly follow up PK damage is.

You will not catch a lot of people with it even off okizeme dash/crouch dash. No one is going to stand there guarding that long they will most likely throw something out. Even if they did it would be better to go for a throw or 66K+G~P+G to also catch evades and get better damage and knockdown.

In about all the Kejiko and Jaga Goh vids I have watched they only ever went for it like once in a 100 matches. The majority of the matches consist of them using 66K+G/throw/46P+KP~Tsukami
if they perfectly read a guard.

I will say that PK > BT > P+K > side turned CH 5K > combo is my favorite thing to do against mashers. If they get caught with it they are not going to mash again unless they are stupid.

 

Having a guard-break move is a god send, and, as Jide revealed to me on IRC (TY, mate!), + gives you a free + connect on side block.

 

Ooh, thank you Leonard and Jide!

Jide, way to go at EVO!

 

Just to expand on this guard break on a side-turned opponent: If you OM towards Goh's back and buffer 236P+K, you can also get a guaranteed 66P for a back turn. From there you get a back throw at +8 so they can't duck it.

Even though 3P+K, 66P are both 18f moves, 66P seems to have tighter timing; I don't know why though.

EDIT: The timing is wicked funky. Seems to work sometimes and not others, but it SHOULD work based on the numbers.

 

The timing is tighter because 66p takes longer to input. It's like punishing a -15 move with a 14 frame move that has an input like instead of

Even on the fastest input.

= One frame
= Two frames.(1f penalty)

Does the back throw do more damage than the combo from ?

 

if were talking about sideturned situations and inability to block some slower moves. if you catch someone with 8/2k+g next to a wall you get a free 46 p as a combo. but because they tend to be sideturned after that move its them into the wall you get a free 3pp and because the move always leaves you with your stomach to the wall the 2nd hit will cause them to hit the wall and you get at least a 66p+k into finisher or sometimes a 9p+k into whatever.

works well against lightweights.

 

not sure if this is the right thread but off of 3pp knockdown I thought this was pretty cool.

on a 3pp knockdown. if you go straight to backturned by doing 44p as they are flying you get a good mixup between catchthrow, which will beat block, evade, and any abare slower than 12 frames (as it is a catchthrow it can throw the startup of moves and it cannot be teched). and if you do p+k you will beat crouch and any abare and leave them sideturned.

 

Why not take the guaranteed damage off 33p? I'm honestly starting to think 33p is Goh's best move now that it's so delayable; it's his best whiff punisher.

You get pretty good damage off 33p, p, 46p+k>p>6p… Go for a ground throw or light down attack if they don't roll. Also, if you finish any combo with Goh's 46p+k string and finish with the 6p ender at the right distance from the wall, you can hit them with 66p+k and bounce as they rebound off the wall. It works any time you float them into the wall from max distance. 66p+k hits as they fall forward after their back ricochets off the wall.

 

^Reading comprehension fail.

Fulan stated , not

 

How do you get +18 of the headbutt guard break from sideturn? Is it from extra frames from landing an attack that leaves them sideturned? [, BT ]

I know if you OM from neutral and buffer headbutt the broken guard will give you +15 from messing around in free training.

 

there's a three frame penalty on sideturned for guarding. so guarding effectively has 3 frame startup which makes it possible to hit the 3p+k.

honestly though combos from that crumple suck unless its a lightweight.

 

That still doesn't add up.

Headbutt guard break on normal conditions gives you +12.

I know of the 3 frame advantage you gain from ST block. Headbutt GB from ST gives you +15 as I've stated and tested.

How do you gain an extra 3 frames to get +18 from ST guard break headbutt to nail ?

 

actually that's exactly what it does, adding up

you get an extra 3 frames of advantage on sideturned hit that's the +15, but that's seperate from the extra 3 frames it takes to block from this position.

add em up and they cannot guard 18 frame moves.

 

That's what I had problems with understanding at first as well. The math, apparently, is as follows:

• + gives +12 on block, an additional +3 on side, plus the opponent requires 3 frames to do anything when being sideturned (including blocking). Altogether: +18.

 

Almost made a new top 10 moves thread. I didn't even know there was one here already.
I was a bit bored so I made my own top 10 list.

3K,P
Money! A bit slow at 19f but one of the most important moves around for Goh. Long range, safe, CH and crouch hit confirmable into combo. 3 active frames on 3K makes it a good choise for meaties too. If you get CH on the second hit you can force a 3-way mix-up with low throw, standing throw and a mid.

3P,P
Another core component. First hit is 15f mid that scrapes the ground. Natural combo and one of Goh's only knockdown moves. Kinda hit confirmable on CH but it's hard. With the second hit being high just throwing this out gets you killed (or at least, should get). 3P itself is an OK move too. It tends to be fuzzysafe from a bit of distance and with 4 active frames it's probably Goh's easiest move to meaty with (with a meaty it's also fuzzysafe and easier to hitconfirm).

46P
Mainly a punisher but it's also got a surprising range on it making it ok for punishing whiffs and catching backdashes in some situations. It's a high move with a bit of recovery so it's not something you want to poke with most of the time but it's also fuzzysafe on block and fast so it can be useful for that from time to time too.

6K
Probably every Goh's favorite move to land a counter hit with. 17f mid knee, safe on block. On CH it's one of the most damaging moves in the whole game. Goh doesn't really have other high damage nitaku mids in FS (well ok, you can use 3K from +7), so getting acquinted with this move is probably a good idea. This move is horribly punishable on evade though, so you need to be a bit careful in it's use. Unless your opponent is not evading or punishing it properly after evading, in that case go nuts with it.

K
Goh's basic sidekick is a single input. This move differs from most other basic sidekicks in that it doesn't move Goh forward during it. This makes it a pretty good ranged poke. It also scrapes the ground making it one of the better choises for stopping low profile moves that would otherwise dodge some mids. One of the only downsides of this move is a property shared with some other sidekicks: it causes a pushback on CH so you can't force a nitaku after it even though it gets you a whopping +8. Hitting a crouching opponent also gives you +8 with no pushback. Can cause a backdash stagger.

33P
My personal favorite move with Goh ever since vanilla 5. This move has real good range, causes a nice chunk of damage while being "only" -10 on block. Awesome for whiffpunishing. It's also a decent choise for a meaty since it launches the opponent on any hit but it only has 2 active frames and the disadvantage on block is a bit high to be throwing it out as one all the time. It can be used as a sweep punisher if you manage to pull it out with no dashframe (80 damage and better oki vs 65 from 4K)

4P+K

Slow as molasses (22f - 40f depending on how long you hold it) but fuzzysafe launcher with a very nice range and some evasive properties while Goh reels hit bodyback. You can make him stay in that reeled back position for a while by holding the command if you so desire for some reason. 4 active frames and being fuzzy safe make this one of the most appealing meaty options for Goh. A bit hard to time properly with it's slow speed but doable.

66K+G!P+G

Since Goh doesn't have a catch-throw anymore and his GB sucks balls this is the best thing to use vs yutori. Slow, high, halfcircular. Hit-throw doable on guard for 45 damage. Quite slow for it's reward (26f) but the hit-throw also comes out on hit preventing some abare and evading towards Goh's front on wake-up for a higher reward.

66P

Fuzzy safe, half-circular, sideturning mid. The only thing I feel is kinda bad about this move is it's speed at 18f (usually 19 because of the dashframe) but on the other hands it could be pretty sick if it actually was faster. CH to the side gives +12 for a guaranteed standing throw attempt or a guaranteed backthrow depending on which side you hit it from. Normal hit to the side causing opponent to go BT gives a nice mix between backthrow and 6K since they can't evade from BT. CH near a wall gives gives a really damaging wallcombo.

I have such a hard time deciding on #10 that I will skip it and just throw in the honorable mentions in it's stead.
- Tsukamigaeshi
- Sabakis
- 66P+G
- 2/8K+G
- P / 2P / 6P / throws; the basics. I didn't put them on the list because they'd be on every list.