Top 10 Moves.

Discussion in 'Wolf' started by Mister, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf

    Every tread has a 10 moves so why not have a tread about that for our favorite grappler?

    I'll star with my top 10 moves and if you don't agree let's just discuss it.

    In no particular order:

    1) Screw Hook [6][3][2][1][4][P] : The reason is easy. 14f frame special mid. It's not a natural combo but it's half circular covering wolf's back. Perfect punish for low opponent (and in this scenario it's a natural combo) and, not hard to hit check like it used to be in Vanilla.

    2) Bounding Elbow [9][P][+][K] : This move is slow but avoids low hits and gives us an hard knock down. From here you can do the heaviest Wolf's ground attack or a ground throw. Also used in combo.

    3) Heavy Middle Kick [3][K][+][G] : Combo starter, half circular covering the front, 8 - on block. It's not fast (24f) but it's really usefull especially for the range the move has.

    4) Quick Shoulder [4][6][P] : Fastest long range attack for Wolf (16f). It's really unsafe (-15 on block) but it's fast and has also great ring out potential. Great punish for whiffed rising attacks.

    5) Rolling Savate [6][K][+][G] : I love this kick because avoids high when you are in disadvantage and lows when you are in advantage. Gives struggle on hit and it's half circular covering your front. It's slow and gives you just a mixup after the struggle but it's good to steal the initiative from your opponent.

    6) R.A.W. Avenger: Another move that can steal the opponent initiative. Gives you Armord to take one hit with one arm or one leg that doesn't knock you down. Also the hit shouldn't have a quick follow up otherwise the RAW animation will be interrupted. To use it wisely but if performed a the right time you can deal a good damage. Also the neck hold variant can be performed from [4][K][+][G]~[P][+][G].

    7) Savate [4][K] : Fast mid kick to punish back dashers and to get a side crumple in CH.

    8) Push [6][6][P][+][K] : Great to shake your opponent defence when he's turtling. It will give you +9 giving you a strong nintaku. There's nothing garanteed tought and if you choose the wrong option could be dangerous for your healt.

    9) Death Scythe [K][+][G] : Slow full circulat that is ZERO on block. altought it's high and easy to duck. however from this kick blocked you can keep your offensive. Also from the distance you will be + on guard.

    10) Low Drop Kick [6][2][K] : Avoids high and gives hard knock down on CH or RCH. Stagger on normal hit. It's basically a move to use if you predict highs or to punish when you are +17. From there an heavy ground attack or ground throw will connect easy.


    I didn't include throws because i wanted to discuss hits. I was trying to put there also Wolf's catches but Personally i find this moves more important.

    Hope you find some usefull information in this list and if it gets promoted by the majority of the wolf player here I'll put this list as top 10 moves in the wiki.
     
  2. YOMI

    YOMI not a legendary game designer

    PSN:
    buttoi-man
    RAW makes the list but not 4P, 6PP+K or even 4P+K?????
     
  3. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    OK, my own 5 cents

    1) [P]
    Fast. Safe. Give you imperfect nitaku even on guard; perfect nitaku on hit/MC. PK variant is great for punishing

    2) [2_][P]
    Fast. Instant-antihigh. Great for stealing initiative on small disadvantages.

    3) [6][2][4][P]
    Your only usefull attack covering your stomach.

    4) [4][6][P][+][G]
    15 frames catch throw that leads into fake santaku (true nitaku + extend option that leads into true santaku). Awesome spacing/RO/wall capabilities.

    5) [6][K]
    Knee. Pretty safe and if you know your max damage, it is pretty devastating versus most character. Not Goh-level devastating, but still.

    6) [4][P]
    Great for punishing. Great for being 15-frame jgl starter that safe. Medicore damage, high versus certain characters.

    7) [6][2][K]
    Fake low attack, that is almost instant anti-high. JGL starter at MC/RMC. Great in many situations.

    8) [3][K][+][G]
    Your big jgl starter, somehow safe (-8 on guard) with awesome reach and half-circular properties. Shame it is damn slow.

    9) desc [P]
    Safe jumping attack that leads to devastating santaku on NH and is safe on guard. You just need to know when to use it.

    10) DM [P][+][G]
    Catch throw for damn high damage. Great for okizeme.

    5 Honorable Mentions
    [4][6][P]
    Great reach, decent speed, nice damage. If it will not be -15 but -9, it will be great move. Like this, it is only decent; but still very useful. It also leads to one of the best 50/50 you can get in VF.

    [2_][K]
    Your only true low attack.Deal with it.

    [9][P][+][K]
    Great anti-low. Safe. Leads to small juggle with medicore damage (or low damage but great oki).

    [P][+][K] max charge
    Killer move if used smart. Even versus people who are awesome in unstaggering can lead to decent damage.If they do not know how to unstagger, you can easily get 90+ damage on guard.

    [6][P] with all follow-ups
    Hitcheckable on MC. Can lead to RO/walljuggle. Risky and weird, but if used smart, pretty nice addition to your arsenal.

    [3][P][+][K]
    Option-select into ground attack. Pushes far back on guard and have good frames. If pushes to wall, it is stagger time.

    5 Dishonorable Mentions
    RAW
    Can be annoying for your opp, but...
    1) You still eat the damage and in exchange, you get santaku guessing. If you guess wrong, you get reset situation and 0 damage.
    2) You can not use it on reaction, it is pure guess. Also even if you guess right, fast string / hitthrow / KND will beat it
    3) Punishable on whiff. BADLY punishable.

    [3][K]
    At 1st glance good move. But... -9 on guard? WTF. +4 on NH is good... Or will be, but it pushes damn, damn far. Usefull only close or next to wall to elimiate pushback or to set up stagger/slump. Shame it is fastes mid move covering your back so you need to use it sometimes :(

    [4][6][6][P]
    Probably the most useless moves in Wolfs arsenal.

    [6][2][4][P][+][K]
    Another completely useless move in Wolfs arsenal. You can argue it covers your stomach and leads into hitthrow (and is special high), but face it... The damage is poor, the reach is poor and the 624P is much more usefull to deal with evaders as it is fast eough to kill abare from small advantage. This move HAD potential to be good or even great, but someone screw it completely.

    [3][P]
    One of the worse "elbows" in the game but because it is elbow, you must use it. Oh my :(
     
  4. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf


    I use those moves more as punishment than offesinvely.
    It's normal if you don't agree with my list but i would like to know what is your top 10 moves list and a short description why the move made it there.
     
  5. YOMI

    YOMI not a legendary game designer

    PSN:
    buttoi-man
    Alright why not. In no particular order.

    P - Because it's a regular punch, important for anyone. Instant frame advantage hit or guard. Wolf has the dubious honor of owning a high, mid string from his P which means those pesky 11f jabbers cannot destroy your P, 3P/hcbP block string every time for free.

    6PP+K - 16f mid poke with an NC high, half circular follow up into ridiculous oki, great move. Just don't flowchart with it since you get punished if they duck.

    4P - 15f high launcher, very easy to whiff punish shit into a combo, good to throw out as a poke every now and then just to let them know it's there. Recovers decently fast too, so not too much worry of getting destroyed if you whiff/get evaded.

    4P+K - 19f high half circular that gives +16 advantage on CH, which means a 4P ~100 damage combo or 46P ring out against evade. Yeah ECD probably ruins this move, yadda yadda, but so it does to a lot of other moves too but they still get used.

    46P - Shoulder tackle, rings out very far and gives a combo if they fail to tech which is easy to check. Also gives good-ish oki if they do tech. Instant wallsplat into wall combo which is great considering it's long reach, just don't use it as a poke please.

    9P+K - Goes over lows and gives guaranteed follow ups into either damage or mad oki, just don't get predictable with or you'll be floated into a combo.

    6K - Safe mid standard knee class attack, negligible advantage on normal hit and a combo on CH, great for punishing 2P mashers after blocking one.

    3K+G - This is the one fellas, a safe mid half circular combo starter that is easy to meaty at oki and gives good damage comboes on hit although not as good as Jeffry's. Occasionally good to throw out randomly in case they want to run into it, but look out because it's slow.

    hcbPP - AKA screw lariat, 14f s.mid good poke and low punisher into good oki, what's not to like? Actually it sucks that it's mid, high and not even NC on standing hit and hcbP on itself is minus on hit, but oh well 3P is there for that purpose.

    3K - I don't know about anyone else but I love this move. Slow as shit for a sidekick at 18f, but it's half circular and gives a special hit animation on hit that creates space between Wolf and the opponent which gives Wolf great options; He can BD away to create more space and punish whiffs, BH afterwards is good too because of it's long reach and being full circ, or he can just take advantage (+4) and start attacking. On CH it knocks down and is safe on block.

    Reason why 4K+G didn't make the list is because I don't like it in FS, it just gives a 3 way choice on hit and the throw activates at a lesser range than in vanilla too. 4K+GK isn't any better because you can't confirm or delay it or anything and it's punishable on block. 4K+G on itself is -3 on hit and -10 on guard. Crap move imo, just use 4K which is good.
     
  6. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    My top ten with wolf... ok, be prepared please, i'm not a wolf player, i just used him from time to time to troll on XBL.

    1) [6][6][P][+][G]: no evading or throw escaping, thank you.

    2) [3][P]: no abare or backdashing, thank you.

    3) [6][K]: no, really, no abare, thank you.

    4) [6][K][+][G]: no jabs or low punches, thank you.

    5) [4][6][P]: no spacing or reversals, thank you.

    6) [4][P]: no -15 launchers, thank you.

    7) double evade: no input skills for E(C)DG and all that, thank you.

    8) jump: no time to react, pick high guard or low guard, thank you!

    9) [3][3][P][+][K]: TAKE THAT!

    10) [K][G]: no respect, thank you.

    These are basically all the moves i know how to use, peppered with random jab, low punch, [6][P] string, lazy guard and input errors. Oh and [8][K][+][G] post round :cool:

    I know they are extremely suboptimal (for example i don't know how to fit his new [3][K][+][G] or [6][P][+][K] in my gameplan). The only new move i use is [3][P] which is bonkers. I basically play him like a VF5 vanilla wolf minus the grizzly and the DM p+k and it still worked vs. half the XBL population. The way i see, since most opponents must hit me 3 or more times to drain my lifebar, i have a big margin for suboptimal play :)
     
  7. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf

    Ok guys thanks for the feedback. Due to new informations I'll make a top 10 moves for beginners. I still don't know if [2][P] and [P] should be in, since they are pretty much universal for everybody in the game.

    right now the list will cover specific situation like having a quick mid to use, some pokes, long distance move, etc

    1) Screw hook [6][3][2][1][4][P]: fastest mid, halfcircular covering your back, crouching opponent punisher.

    2) Body Blow [6][P]: good mid, has 2 follow ups. [6][P][P][+][K] is natural combo and safe on block. It's a mid high string so beware of opponent who likes to duck. [6][P][P] is natural combo from recovery counter hit only and is a mid mid, however it's not safe on block.

    3) Quick shoulder [4][6][P]: fast mid attack from the distance. Is not safe on block but it's usefull to whiff punish rising attack and to ring out an opponent really close to the edge (it will ring out even on block most of the time). Just don't use it recklessy or you will perish fast.

    4) Elbow Butt [4][P]: fastest launcher, high, safe on block.

    5) Pounding Elbow [9][P][+][K]: Slow but avoids low hits. Gives hard knock down and grants an heavy ground attack and ground throws will connect.

    6) Death Scythe [K][+][G]: probably not the best move in Wolf's arsenal but this thing is great against opponent who like to dodge a lot. Safe on block or sometimes even unsafe for your opponent to move first. Drawbacks are that it's slow and high.

    7) Catch Throws [6][6][P][+][G] and [9][P][+][G]: There's no need to be afraid by the throw escape system when you have throws that cannot be evaded that way. These tools also helps you a lot against dodger.

    8) Savate [4][K]: fastest kick and punishes back dashers. Also gives side crumple.

    9 and 10) still thinking about it. I'm not sure I should put in the raw avenger to defend against opponents who like to poke you. But raw is not easy to use for a new player so I'll probably leave it out. Is there some tool i should mention for a specific scenario?

    Thanks
     
  8. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    I really do not think K+G and 4K should be in the list. I agree they both are pretty good moves and have their uses, but I do not think they are the "best" ones you have, because they are "just" situational choices in my view. Also if you look at top level jap gameplay, I do not remember to see them being used much (in all honest, I cant remember any K+G at all..?)

    Also, I really miss 6K, 62K and probably even 46P+G (this maybe even over 66P+g / 9P+g?). I also wish to point out you do mention 624P as attack covering your back, but you did not mention any attack covering your stomach if I am right..?

    _________________
    Anyway, after my post several people asked my why I do not like Wolfs 3P, giving arguments why this move is good.
    Well, let me explain my point of view:

    3P IS good. But it is good ONLY because it is elbow-class attack and the game makes all 14-f elbows attacks being integral part of one of most important, one of most core and one of most strongest game mechanic.
    But while being elbow, it is probably the worse 14-f elbow in FS.

    The reasons are very simple:
    1) you cant use it from crouch
    2) it have no stringed followup (yes, I know there are other chars who do not have it, but lets face it - there are a LOT of those who have and it really makes a difference)
    3) AFAIK it is the ONLY 14-f elbow in the game that will NOT give you +6 if you NH/RCH crouching opponent, but only +1
    Every single of this 3 drawbacks is unpleasant but minor, but when put together, they make Wolfs 3P really crappy for being an elbow.

    And this is the reason I put 3P in dishonorable mentions. Not because it is bad by itself, but simply because it is the WORSE attack of its kind in FS.
     
  9. leftylizard

    leftylizard Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    blue mouthwash
    I agree that 4p and 9p+k should both be in the top ten because after they hit the opponent CANNOT tech when they go down. This sets up a good oki game for wolf. Also 4p and 9p+k are both safe on block. The fact that 9p+k beats out lows AND doesn't allow the opponent to tech make it really stand out as a great move.
     
  10. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Exactly my point. Glad I was able to explain myself, I was not sure how to formulate the idea in english to make it understandable
     
  11. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf

    Unicorn you read it wrong. 4K is there for a reason, punish backdashes. Now the list is aiming to give universal tool to a non experienced wolf player. 4K is the best move to punish backdashes AND to attack from the side, because will give a side crumple on CH. I personally use it a lot and it's safer on the side (just fuzzy instead of a Cfuzzy). 6K can be put in the list to punish abare, actually i didn't think about move 9 and 10. K+G is there to avoid people to dodge too much. I agree that is not the best circular in the game altought it has it's way to shine somehow (especially on oki). Maybe it's not a move an experienced player will suggest to a newbie so I'll remove it from the list, since the major feedback sounds like it.

    If that's the case, 6K can become the new N°6 and as N°9 I'll suggest 3K+G (it will cover the other side of a screw hook.

    However in the doubt K+G will be the move to go, so I'll keep it in a special mention section because i belive it is a information to have if you play Wolf.
     
    Unicorn likes this.
  12. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Mister, sounds good to me. 4K makes sense if you put it like this and 3k+g as well

    As 10th move I will suggest 62K as antihigh/stagger; the move really have its uses (and I think for newcommer even more)
     
  13. leftylizard

    leftylizard Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    blue mouthwash
    lol. mister needs to work harder and study wolf more exstensivly if he wants to be content manager. just something i noticed.
     
  14. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Just two small notes
    if the list is for beginners, then fuzzy-options should have no impact on the selection, as beginners do NOT fuzzy
    and the second - 4k is not CDfuzzy from forwad
     
  15. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf

    True is that 4K is not CDfuzzable. At least not from close distance. But even so it's stronger like any other move from the side.
     
  16. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Based on Mykes lalest statement I think P/2P should be put back in the list
     

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