Tournaments - why bother?

Ok, I'm replying as a new post because I'd love to hear what people think about this.

First off, my intentions of league statistics and/or tournaments is by no means a way in which I'm trying to make the NA VF scene like the Japanese VF scene. My intentions are purely for creating a *competitive* environment here in North America. I'm emphasizing the word competitive here.

The way I see it, the North America VF scene exists leisurely. It is not a competitive scene. People like to play VF, and think that's great. But there's not a whole lot of competing going on. And if you think I'm way off, then tell me, but I do believe that there could be a competitive scene here in North America. No, not on the same scale as our japanese counterparts - I'm not dreaming. In our own small scale way, with the limited players we have, we can have a competitive scene.

Now, in my NYCHOTNESS post, I got responses along the lines of:

"People's schedules are too difficult to organize things....we have other interests...impossible to organize...etc etc"

Well, in my year off between degrees, I worked as a personal trainer. I used to have people come in and say that they wanted to be in better shape, etc. When I would tell them that they'd have to be in the gym so many times per week, many would respond with "Oh, I can't fit that much time in!" when in fact, they could - provided they made time.

The point of my story is that it *is* possible to organize things, you just have to *want* to participate. If you don't want to participate, then sure, I can understand that it wouldn't work. And, you know, maybe that's the case here, maybe people are not interested in competing. Nonetheless, it takes the extra effort from someone to do this, to organize it all and run it smoothly. It's not like we don't have any jobs, wives, school work, etc here in Toronto. We too have difficult schedules. The difference is that we *make time* to participate in things like tournamens. Why? Because we like playing VF and we also really enjoy *competing* at VF.

What I am trying to do with taking stats and creating a points system, is start *something* for a VF scene that is pretty much dormant in North America. It's not about having *enough* decent players. It's not about recreating the japanese scene. It's about creating a North American scene which barely exists. It needs a resurge of competition that's been lacking for a while now.

I didn't start this system in Toronto to gather resistance from other cities - I did it as catalyst, hoping to *inspire* other cities to participate and start something. Maybe i'm way off here, guys. But on a small scale here in Toronto (1 city) it seems to be working so far.


So, essentially, you can take two different routes from this post. You can either tell me that there's no point, that there's not enough players in North America - sorry, *decent* players. You can tell me that it's too tough to do, that everyone's schedules are just way to complex to juggle.

Or.

You can tell me that you're willing to put in some extra effort to making a competitive scene in your city. This may mean a notepad in your pocket when you gather at the arcade. It might even mean sending out emails to people in your city to get everyone together for a small gathering or tournament.

It's really all about what you want. If you don't want this, fine. If you do - help out.

cheers,

 

To quickly interject: UK's Dynamic League seems to be quite successful in doing what Llanfair is trying to do on a wider basis in the NA. No reason it can't succeed, city-to-city.

 

I think you basically read my mind. The U.S. VF scene exists “leisurely†at best. From what I can tell, most U.S. arcades don’t have Evo or even Ver.C. Combine that with the already weak arcade scene, and what you end up with is a bunch of people (just like me) scattered across the country with no competition, basically waiting for PS2 Evo to be released. As soon as that happens, the relatively few people playing Evo in arcades now (IMO), will begin to disappear. That’s also the main reason why I believe the U.S. will never get a “true†arcade VF.net system. I think Sega realizes that the majority of VF’s U.S. exposure happens via console, and any attempt to recreate the Japanese arcade environment would be a waste of time and money.

League Nights:
I think it’s an excellent idea. The Orlando crew participates in it because they have good, dedicated VF players who also *want* to find good competition, and are willing to travel in order to do so. They also have an arcade (Rockys) that’s always packed every time I’m there. There’s also a pretty strong scene in L.A. (I hear), and NYC. However, the same can’t be said for many areas across the country. Basically, my point is that there isn’t much incentive for the smaller towns to have league nights. Most people aren’t hardcore enough to travel the long distances required to find good competition. It’s not that people don’t *want* to play, it’s just extremely difficult for people to get motivated when:

1. Their local arcade refuses to get VF because they think it's not profitable.

2. If they have a VF machine, the sticks are either poorly maintained, or the wrong alignment.

 

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Basically, my point is that there isn’t much incentive for the smaller towns to have league nights.

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And I agree entirely with this. The major cities that do have a good scene, however, don't have this excuse. This is their chance to participate. Orlando has been keen on this from the beginning and I will commend IMF for putting in the effort here. He has spoken to me at lengths and is going to be sending me the right info for stat taking. I'd love to have representatives from LA or NY or wherever.

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1. Their local arcade refuses to get VF because they think it's not profitable.

2. If they have a VF machine, the sticks are either poorly maintained, or the wrong alignment.

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Point 1 is indeed a problem that's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to solve. However Point 2 is not an issue. Arcades are run by people who want you to play. It's not hard to approach your manager/operator and show them how you want the buttons aligned, or the sticks to be better. The investment on their part in tiny, and the reward is huge as people will enjoy a better playing experience. There's no excuse for bad alignment - that's almost as much fault of the players - you just have to speak up and tell the operators and then follow up to ensure that it gets fixed.

Just to give you an example, I went in person to Canada's Official Sega distributor's warehouse (New Way Sales Inc.) exclusively to ensure that buttons, etc were arranged properly on their VF4 machines. I phoned them up, introduced myself as an experienced and avid VF player and arranged to meet with them to show how players want the machine arranged. It worked well and all the officially distributed machines were indeed set up properly. But you see, this was something *I* did - it wasn't something I expected out of the operators. They're people, and they're approachable.

Sidenote - Jeff, thanks for the reply. It's nice to have some positive feedack. You're right, UK's Dynamic League is there, and we can try to get something going here.


cheers,

 

Stats were meant to be more than just keeping track. Toronto has been trying to create an organized community and just coming out for games and going home didn't seem to draw more people so we thought, "lets organize league nights, keep track of peoples progress and use it to seed tournaments so we don't have to have round Robins all the time".

The idea was that with a definite purpose and plan we could work better to realizing our goal which was more players playing competitively. The further idea was that if we could interest other VF communities in doing the same or similar thing we could get something big going on, with each group getting more players preparing themselves, trying to get better and eventually meeting.

I think Hiro is right, that we need more playing time and less tournaments but the thing to understand is that Toronto has only had one EVO tournament (and that was just an excuse to get freeplay). The rest were just gatherings where we tracked wins and losses.

To the end of helping players get better, Llanfair and I have been discussing doing the freeplay event and using it as a low cost mechanism for players to get better. where the main aim is to play and learn not just aim for the top spot.

I encourage anyone with input on how best to foster groups of players and increase their playing strength to post here, keeping in mind that not everyone has a PS2 to practice on.

If the idea is to create bigger pools of good players what is the best way to go about it? from VF1 to now, the numbers have remained similar so past ideas have been of no use. How does one encourage playing?

GE

 

Why make it more competitive? I'd take more popular over more competitive any day. I guess your argument will be that one leads to the other. My preemptive reply to that is: "99% of america can't stand VF at any level"

If 16 guys play each other regularly, and then the same sixteen now play each other for points or cash prizes, is that an improvement in the "NA VF scene?" ... it's the same frigging 16 guys, only it's now more of a pissing contest?

As for "making the time to play" ...yeesh, priorities. Work and Health > VF.

All that being said, I don't see why anyone shouldn't do tournaments as often as they want or as often as time and money permit, but this whole league thing. You know how it looks llan?

Llanfair: Hey I have this great idea, points and rankings and a regular league night for toronto VFers!
Rest of the world: cool
Llanfair: Hey you guys should get in on this, it's neat!
Rest of the world: hmmm
Llanfair: WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM YOU LAZY FUCKS? DO EVERYTHING JUST LIKE WE DO!
Rest of the world: wtf?!

 

To the end of helping players get better, Llanfair and I have been discussing doing the freeplay event and using it as a low cost mechanism for players to get better.

Just wanted to say that whatever else we do or don't agree on this is a big thumbs up. Such an event is EXACTLY how I learned to play VF... freeplay, 3 hours for 6 bucks, ucla arcade. It combines the regular-time-and-place-with-assured-competition that a league would offer, but it's not serious and heavy, it won't scare away scrubs. In fact because the games feel free, scrubs will try a game they might otherwise refuse to give 1-5 dollars to. Lastly it's nice to play something like that and be able to goof around and play flashy. If I'm playing for points or cash, my kage will be all about the db db db DF+P. If I'm playing for fun he's all about the uf+P+G, ya know? And it's the uf+P+G's that make casual observers go woooo.

 

I think if the USA played as well as they posted, we wouldn't have this problem. =P

Tournaments are HOT, but when finding time to play and when participating in simple league night events seem to be too hard for some areas, tournies are silly.

PS- Why don't some of the veterans try to round up some of the newbs over in "Character and technique training" and "Kumite". Most of them don't even know there is a competitive side to this game.

Also: Llanny, we're with you dawg =)... We're working on getting a steady group of HOT players here in Florida. Right now its only "3" consistent players. Hoping to add DRE, CAPPO, and some of the other guys to the list as well. Like you said, "They just have to want it". And if they don't, I'm still working on my game as much as possible, and that's all any of us can do here in NA. peace out.

Some cities don't have a excuse not to have a competitive scene. Atlanta, LA, NYC, St. Luis all have potential. Florida has actively recruited from the get go. We've had alot of players fall off the wagon and never talk to us again, but the ones that stayed keep us hoping and hoping for others to follow that are as cool as they are. In the beginning there was only ghostdog, then two guys post and actively show interest and Ghostdog drives 3 hours to go play complete newbs at VF and show them some inside to the game. After that showing we could only think of the possibilities of becoming completely badass at the game and thats where it started. In the Hydra Museum there is a statue of Ghostdog paying tribute to him, don't any of you from other cities want statues like Ghostdogs? haha, later guys.


Ramble, Ramble, Ramble =P.......sorry

 

Sorry blondie, I would be there as well. But I am too stuck with duties beyond my control. If only league nights were a little later. Say 10:30pm. I would be there. (thumbs up)

 

I've just accepted the fact that for some reason or another, most Americans just want to play VF casually. I don't know why, and I wish I could figure out the answer, but when LA has a big VF4 tourney with a supposedly top Korean player, and only 13 or so people show up for it, then that's where I just gave up in trying to figure out what's wrong with the VF scene here.

And it's the same where I live in CO. There was one tournament with like 10 people, then the next one had 7, then the next like 6. And now they don't even bother with tournaments because it's pointless having one when that few people show up. They all rather play CvS2, T4, or MvC2. I'm into CvS2, but that doesn't mean I got to give up on VF4.

A lot of people don't have the desire to learn VF, and that's something I don't think is ever going to change here in America. Maybe they think it's too hard or something, or they just need someone to show them how to play, but whatever it is, they all rather invest time in a more popular game. It sucks, but as great as VF is, people just don't want to give it a chance.

And I don't think there's that many hardcore VF players in one area to really make a difference. Hardcore VF players are spread out all over the US, so gatherings or meetings of VF play is really hard when one has to travel so far just to play others that are as enthusiastic as they are about the game.

 

I blame Manifest Destiny for all the VF problems in the US. JK

HOW TO GET A VF SCENE IN YOUR CITY

By Jedi_Fei

But seriously, it all starts in you own city. Dont even look out of state. First you have to throw away the illusion that your going to have as many people on the SC2 machine as you are on the VF machine. VF is strictly for the hardcore, so only VF players will play VF. If you play VF try to find anyone else who plays VF in your state, Try posting on not only VFDC but on other game sites. Now here is the big thing i think people dont get, your only going to find 1 or 2 people who will drive walk, or bike to each others house to play VF one or twice a week. Thats all you need to start. As long as the people are willing to drive and walk. Once you have people who will travel(Locally) to play you can move to the next step.
The next step and this is the second thing people arent doing, is learn the game. And I dont mean learn the moves, I mean learn the game. Get on VFDC and get out of kumite thread and start reading and posting about your character, dont worry about getting flamed or pissing off bungle and creed( FL didnt /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif ) Just learn everything there is to know, and understand it. Then just play as much as you can and youll have a vf scene. Now, if you want it to be bigger than 3 people youll have to recruit more, that means looking for people while your are still doing this all. Also if there ever is a big VF gathering, make the sacrifice and go, they are very important to the development of you VF scene and drive. Once you go to an NYG or a MOAT, you get competative, you see the level of the rest of the country and you will want to get better.

But none of this will not work unless you want it to. You have to want to get better or you wont. You have to strive to be competative and to always want to be the best, even if people call you arrogant, deluded, or even fucking cunts /versus/images/icons/grin.gif Cause eventually if you keep at it, you will attain it.

 

Bah, too much work. Video games are supposed to be fun, not a year long project to recruit people to join you in your favorite game. If they don't want to play on there own, I'll be damned if I'm gonna go out of my way to try and make them. There's only so much I'll do before I just got to throw in the towel. I'll offer to help someone learn the game, I'll offer a place to play at my house, I'll even drive to someone else's house if that's what it takes, but after all that, if no one is interested, then that's just the way it goes.

 

Do you know how to play the game??

 

Of course, more so than most people who post here. Not in technical terms, but as far as just having a good basic game and knowledge of how to play, I'd say I'm right up there.

 

Hey Jedi_Fei. Why dont you and Blond_One come to Colorado so I can show you how to really play the game. /versus/images/icons/shocked.gif

 

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Hey Jedi_Fei. Why dont you and Blond_One come to Colorado so I can show you how to really play the game.

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Uhmm...dont talk out of your arse now bro

 

Haha, this is funny. I think Jedi and blonde if they ever come to CO, would show you guys how to play the game. It's all good though. Like blonde one said in the past, stop trying to find a good response for this post and keep playing. Right blonde one? lol

 

why can't they play and come up with a response? Or is that a privilege reserved only for a select few?

at any rate, your assesment is most likely the more accurate one. HOWEVER, this thread used to be about the viability of tournaments. is it now dead and should be locked away or does anyone have anything good to offer?

GE

 

Yea i prob. would feel the same if i was in your shoes. But im not.

 

but when LA has a big VF4 tourney with a supposedly top Korean player, and only 13 or so people show up for it, then that's where I just gave up

My memory may be faulty, but wasn't this a top tekken player?
If shinz showed up somewhere within 1000 miles you can probably bet some members of the board would show up.

Anyway I agree with thrust of what you're saying. But the hardcore aren't scared to bust out the gas money, or in some cases plane tickets. Look at FLA.