Um VF4 NOT to be best looking fighter?????

Please JTX...CIN is correct on a number of his points above save one or two.

The PVR2's are the GPU's the GPU is the renderer. There is no such thing as a GPU then renderer. The GPU does the rendering.

The only thing CIN was wrong about is the 250Mhz idea and the 300Mhz CPU.

X-Box uses a dedicated bridge similar to AMD's upcoming Northbridge. It allows huge memory bandwidth so there is no limitation by the actual speed of the memory or parts used. This is a PC limitiation by which the memory can communicate with the GPU. If you take out that "road" which the local memory, Texture Memory and GPU communicate and turn it into a highway this is what you get with a dedicated bus like that used in VIA/AMD's northbridge.

The number of Polys per second will be limited by the CPU the Geforce 3 (NV20) is so powerful that it is constantly waiting for data to be sent to it. The bottleneck is the CPU.

A geforece 2 maxes out around 1Ghz processor. So a Geforce 3 with a 700Mhz processor may not be maxed out. The only thing I can think of is MS creating a streamlined OS which doesnt give you too much processing overhead.

What I tried to clarify with SLI is that SLI is being used in terminology the way I would use SMP for adobe photoshop.

Instead of calling it SLI I could call it SMP. It can render every other line just like SLI, as long as it is supported in the driver. It also most deifnately works in SMP mode. The PVR2's are the GPU's. Take a look at the motherboard image of an N2 Compared to the original N1. The additional Heatsink fan is covering the second PVR2, the second GPU.

On the cost factor of X-Box vs. Naomi 2 I dont understand whats being said about this. At max cost the X-Box on release will not cost more than $1000 per unit for MS to manufacture. MS is planning to take a loss and sell around $300. They will probably take around $250-$300 loss per unit.

N2 on release weighs in at a heafty $2000-4000.

Theres no comparison there. The x_Box gives you WAYYYYYYYYYY more bang for the buck.

CrewNYC

 

Hmm after re-reading CIN's post he was not reffering to memory speed, but core clock speed of the GPU. This has nothing to do with memory speed. So he is correct on his point that decreased clock speed will cause a hit on performance. One thing I disagree with is the 8 million polygons per second. It can do 8 lights easily, but I also hear figures around 10-20 million polygons per second, with lights and effects. This makes perfect sense if you follow Geforce 1, to Geforce 2, to Geforce 3.

CrewNYC

 

The 8mpps figure is correct and that is at 300Mhz. This was confirmed by NVIDIA. So at 250Mhz it must be less. XBOX can do 20-30mpps with effects. The XBOX figures depend heavily on the No of effects used. So at 20-30mpps I would expect about 2-3 Local lights and some pixel shading effects which would make the games look wonderful and as good as CG from 1997 easily.

CIN

 

Hehehee..

Andy, this is from Dreamcast Tech Pages. These guys know what they are talking about. This is in reference to you comment about texture compression causing a hit on performance:

Like dRxL said, it does not use the CPU, but only the GPU, and it's like 99.9 percent free, as there is some overhead in loading the code book into the codebook cache, which is an overhead hardly worth mentioning considering you are getting anywhere from 2 to 30 times texture bandwidth savings. The range is so great because VQ compression gets very high ratios with large textures.

'S3TC the form of texture compression used by the N2 is not a standard.'

Clearly a sign that the person does not understand things very well, as the CLX2 GPU used by Naomi 2 only supports VQ compression, and it's the PowerVR Series3 as used in the KYRO1 and KYRO2 that supports S3TC."

<font color=red>Jyunen hayaindayo!</font color=red>

<font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>

 

word, btw i pointed that out to him already
but yah i know, youre getting an official quote.

 

Re: vf4 vs doa3

I am not one of those to disagree just to argue. Ours is just a difference of opinion and has nothing to do with you being a huge prick in the past.

Under the surface of the most jaded cynic lies a dissappointed idealist- George Carlin

 

crewnyc: a man, a dream

oh. my. fucking. gawd.
gpu is geometry processing unit, not a renderer.
are you going to try to invent your own meaning to that acronym too?
crewnyc "The PVR2's are the GPU's the GPU is the renderer. There is no such thing as a GPU then renderer. The GPU does
the rendering."
i really love that quote. its almost musically stupid.
the n2 has 1 gpu aka T&L unit, and 2 renderers.

this is officially pointless, how many mistakes have you made in this thread alone that you have not owned up too... off the top of my head..
(ive pointed the below out already.)
youve also been wrong on the s3tc is not a standard and that its not free. the whole point of tc in hw is that its free or nearly.
and the "GPU" using anything resembling sli. it uses tilebased rendering, thats the closest thing to sli but still a million miles apart.

its just stupid now, im giving you more validity by even responding.
also, just incase anyone is wondering i am not disagreeing with anything cin says!

also.... sli is scan line interleave.
you later said youre not talking about "scan line interleave", then continue to drop the SLI accronym which is what it means and invent your own meaning for it. thats crazy.
basically, that makes you a crazy person

is this you at dunkin donuts? "i would like a coffee coolata"
1 hour later...
"but by coffee coolata i mean 2 soft tacos"
1 hour later...
"the coffee coolata's are the soft taco the soft taco is the drink. there is no such thing as soft taco. the soft taco does the drink"

"go crazy? dont mind if i do!" - homer j simpson.

peace. out. jtx

 

Re: vf4 vs doa3

The only problem with your argument is that Sony and Sega had great system exclusive games. X-BOX has none of those and almost all of their third party devolpers develop for other sytems the only reason Sony was able to win with almost no great first party games is that they were the only game in town and had developer exclusivity. X-BOX does not have that and their first party games appear to be crap and all of there system seller games appear first on other consoles and no Abe is not a system seller game.
One more thing caring about developers and fans is just a shrewd marketing ploy if they start to fail expect that to go out the window. Also in order for X-BOX to survive they will need to be succesfull in Japan a system can not survive with only being popular in one continent and I doubt they can woo japanese gamers.

Under the surface of the most jaded cynic lies a dissappointed idealist- George Carlin

 

Re: vf4 vs doa3

We'll see about the XBox, much as I hate to say it Sony will have the upper hand. XBox doesn't have la crem de la crem (well they do with SEGA), but no Namco, Square, Konami...couple of others...In Japan the Xbox will SUCK, only in America will it have a chance. Plus I'm going to be laughing my a@@ of when the Xbox freezes on those who buy it...Just like your typical PC with MS Windows...But let me know how it turns out.

Don Killuminati

 

Re: crewnyc: a man, a dream

Let me give you an education on the history of computer acronyms. Did you know when people say CPU they refer to FPU, CPU, and Integrated instruction sets, all in the same CHIP? its just called CPU although you may be talking about any of those things since the FPU, and instruction set is built into the CPU!!!!!




okay what do we see here, a GPU the Geforce 2 and memory covered by the heatsinks, plus a tv out add on.

The Geforce 2 supports all these features in its GPU!!!! Its an integrated unit just like PVR2!!! Its a single thing!!!!! all the card freaking has is a GPU and main bus to the memory!!!!!!

Now SLI here's a biggie, SLI in the last four years since 1997 has become the TERM for two video cards working in tandem. It does mean "scanline interleave" a form of rendering an image across a single frame. However SLI was extended to objects ata time and is used out of context for referring two cards working together. SMP is also used in and out of this context.

CrewNYC


Fixed image tags...<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by ice-9 on 04/02/01 07:13 PM (server time).</FONT></P>