Understanding Nitaku - on behalf of n00bs

Well, I am quite sure all moves you do have for the most part at least 10 frames for you to buffer your moves. Don't look at the frame data under "Guard Column." Instead, look at the frame data from "Total Column" subtracted by frame data from the "Execution Column."

Whether or not it is 0-frame throw or 12-frame throw, you still have 21 frames (10 frames before throw connects, and 11 frames after throw connects...if I remember correctly) to input throw escapes.

 

I think you might be confusing the usage of "recovery" in this context. The recovery period that I keep referring to is after the move's active frames. Even a standard /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif has something like 13 frames of recovery built-in, and I'm not aware of any attack that has less than 10 frames recovery.

What you might be referring to is the frame difference on guard being shorter than 10 frames? Well, regardless of this fact, you still have more than 10 frames of recovery in which the input buffer will reside.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And if the recovery is longer, you still only have the 10 frame window near the end of recovery to buffer the escapes. </div></div>
Nod.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm, if the throw isnt 0-frame, isnt there time during the grab animation to still register throwescapes? (not guard) That would make sense to me but I dont know for sure. </div></div>
There is a window either side of the grab (active portion) where throw escapes can register. When I asked Itazan about this in LA, he mentioned something like 8 frames before, and 12 frames after. He wasn't entirely sure of these figures though.

 

akai, was this published anywhere?

 

Myke - yeah, it was in the Black Book, and I think someone posted the info in one of the Dojo's topics...can't remember which one at the moment. I can double check tonight with the black book when I get back home.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is obviously not the case as you said yourself that it's almost impossible to do more than just 1 TE at -5. </div></div>
Why is this obviously not the case?

You're confusing what's humanly possible with that's technically possible. I proved the concept of a single TEG at low disadvantages, purely based on how they work.

Just because a human can't perform 4 clean TEs lasting exactly 2 frames each, within a 10 frame window, doesn't mean it's impossible. Hence why I don't suggest the use of TEG at low disadvantages.

 

There seem to be a lot of confusion on this throw escape guard...

I am quite sure that, successfully using throw escape guard (TEG) is more difficult than using evade-throw escape guard (ETEG). The throw escape frame window is the same, BUT to successfully hit Guard, you are limiting the amount of time you can enter the throw escapes by doing TEG.

Example:

1. You attack with a fast mid attack (i.e. elbow), and opponent blocks it.
2. You are at -5 frames, opponent immediately attempt to throw you (12-frame throw). His throw will come out 7 frames after your character is able to move and react in game.
3. The throw escape window is 10 frames before the throw actually comes out.
4. Thus, you actually have only 3 frames to enter your throw escape+guard for a successful TEG at -5 frame situations.

This is the reason why TEG is difficult to be used efficiently in game. If you can master it, awesome part of your VF resume. Hope this make sense.

 

The same sentence, from my post -

"The throw escape frame window is the same, BUT to successfully hit Guard, you are limiting the amount of time you can enter the throw escapes by doing TEG."

In addition, the input buffer window is the same.

Just to clarify, I am saying a "successful throw escape guard."

 

No problem. No need to apologize .

I think I am correct, but I could still be wrong...just someone needs to prove it! So bring it on!

 

akai, thanks for that! You managed to verbalise something I was having trouble getting my head around, and that is the intersection of the throw escape window with the input buffer.

During low disadvantages, this intersection is small, as you illustrate. As the disadvantage grows, the window gets bigger.

In fact, when a throw is guaranteed, its possible to enter a TE too early. Which might explain the many times where I could have sworn I TE'd successfully but it never eventuated on screen! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

BTW, managed to find the Black Book source for the TE windows?

 

Myke - yeah, on page 7 of the Black Book, last section (Throw Escape section), first column, second paragraph (just above the picture insert with Pai and Wolf)