Vane Oki and Anti-Rising Attack Strats

Discussion in 'Vanessa' started by Sebo, Jun 5, 2007.

  1. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Jeffry Content Manager Taka

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    zzz
     
  2. Kay

    Kay Well-Known Member

    I'm at work now, and can't test anything, but!

    I always liked /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif in DS to snuff out rising attacks. It's all a timing thing, I find. Sabaki attacks are probably better as they'd be easier to time, especially if people side/back/front roll before standing, reversals a bit less so.

    My tactic when in OS is to just get in their face to pressure them, and use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif which works pretty well, but not as well as I'd like.
     
  3. J6Commander

    J6Commander Well-Known Member

    Also K+G will interrupt any delay rising attacks. This move hits special-high and it is available in both stance too.
     
  4. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Jeffry Content Manager Taka

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    Oh shit, I guess this move has a use outside of Anti-AI.

    Anymore strats peeps?

    Does the Head Facing, Face Down Tech equal a Back Stagger?
     
  5. Vortigar

    Vortigar Well-Known Member

    My general anti-rise mixups consist of the following three moves:
    1. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif mixing this one up on its own is possibly enough, between normal execution, max-charge and step-in-cancel-throw (0-frame throw? gotta check!) this move covers all the bases in of itself. On any hit (!!!) you get a stomach crumple combo and you can cancel it all together if you think you're too late. In general I think this move is hugely under appreciated.

    2. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is especially useful for when your opponent has a habit of evading on rise (possibly in response to eating /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif crumples). I absolutely love this moves list of properties: Full circular, special high, stagger on guard, side turning on hit (the latter is an oft forgotten little detail).

    3. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif as Sebo already mentioned this one is great on people who like their low down attacks as it hops clean over them. This one has the shortest execution of the three and usable in a pinch when you're too late with the longer execution ones.

    The beauty of these three moves in concert is that they work in DS as well as OS so you don't need to remember two specific sets of moves for the two for a change.
     
  6. Kay

    Kay Well-Known Member

    I must practice judging the distance so that I can jump in with a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif cancelled /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, then go straight into a throw. I've trained my roomie to try and reverse it any time I throw it out, so the throw would be funny. Especially if it's zero-frame!

    I still have a lot of success with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif in DS to wipe out rising attacks, though. Haven't got the hang of low-throwing techrollers, though. I don't know if it's even still possible, after they changed Vanessa's low-throw properties.
     
  7. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Jeffry Content Manager Taka

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    zzz
     
  8. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    Actually ALL of Akira's rising attacks are Side kicks or mid kicks - thus /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif sabaki is possible.

    I'm checking the other char's movelist ATM to see if this applies to anybody else.

    <s>Hmm, seems like Aoi too /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif </s>

    Lau seems to be only able to do mid crescents when he's face up feet towards - everything else can be sabakied.

    That's it. Anyway, what's more important, is that, like Sebo pointed out NOBODY is be able to do anything else than sidekicks and mid kicks when in a face up, had towards position.

    This means, once again after a successful /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif they are in an ideal position. I was wondering about how to get the opponent to get up with a rising mid kick when i had an idea "how about baiting him?" I am willing to bet that if i follow up with another /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif most opponents would try to rise with a mid kick to punish vanessa for whiffing, right? (if they roll and it hits them, well even better)

    So, my real question is the following: after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif whiffs over their head, will the 5-20 frames sabaki window of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif have time to kick in?

    Of course this would work only once per opponent, but still, xbox live is a big place /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif
     
  9. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Jeffry Content Manager Taka

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    zzz
     
  10. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    OOPS! My bad /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif http://virtuafighter.com/commands/index.php?chara=aoi&ver=5c didn't have the move type for her rising attacks so i tried to look at her version B stats but the webpage defaulted me to Akira when i switched versions /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

    OK, the opponent is also face up, head towards after those throws but i don't see the point of doing a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif since they can't techroll, that's why i didn't care to mention it when i was trying to figure if the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif sabaki window will kick in.

    I'm trying to do it in free training (two shadow slicers then a leopard strike) but i keep getting hit - which should mean the sabaki window hasn't kicked in, right? But maybe i'm just doing it too slow - somebody with faster inputting skills than my (notoriously slow) own should try to see.

    If it works it means that after a DS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif vane could always follow up with a second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif without fear of getting retaliation, right?
     
  11. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Jeffry Content Manager Taka

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    If memory serves me correctly, the window starts at the <s>4i or</s> 5i-20i.
     
  12. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    Has anybody else tried using DS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to crush rising attacks? I've had little success doing this, i fear it doesn't have enough active frames for it to work consistently /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif While messing around i did however find out that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif can also be used to crush rising attacks /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

    As far as OS is concerned /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif seeems good for crushing rising attacks on paper but results against lows are very inconsistent as expected; sometimes it will connect, sometimes it will jump over the low, sometimes it will land me on the other side of my rising opponent, sometimes it will even float them but i'll be left BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Lately i try to walk backwards and if i see my opponent twitching hit the kick button to nail them with a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif.

    Suggestions/comments?
     
  13. shadowmaster

    shadowmaster Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    animelord79
    XBL:
    shadoolord1979
    I would rather use her fully charged /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif that crumples people that do any recovery kick low or mid leaving them open to a low throw or combo. If you suspect a quick recovery or roll away Vanessa can just cancel it by switching to her other stance to avoid being blocked, evaded, and immediately countered. I used to do this in VF4 evolution specifically and I have yet to actually do it in VF5 but I am sure it will work in VF5 as well if I actually tried it again and I will have to get back in the mode to do it again. The enemy would be in the recovery frames of the recovery kick and wouldn't be able to move because of it.
     
  14. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    Here's some more background info which might explain why i'm interested in fast crushing moves: i'm an elbow rush <s>whore</s> <s>spammer</s> <s>aficionado</s> i just use it a lot. It's common knowledge that after an elbow rush vane gets a free stomp. Then it's oki time.

    My problem with back charge kick is that i often find myself getting hit by opponents who mash low rising kick without delaying. Yes, i am aware that leg bomber can beat those (also a VF4evo strategy). I do however dislike leg bomber because if i guess wrong and my opponent mashes rising mid kick i find myself being floated.

    Backwalk doesn't work if the opponent mashes real fast either. Maybe repeated backdashes work but i have notoriously bad inputting skills. Plus all of the above options can't be used with vane's back to the edge of the ring.

    Theoretically there's also OM who can sometimes sidestep circular rising kicks but i dislike its random nature.

    That's why i am trying to find fast mids that will crush said non-delayed rising kicks.
     
  15. shadowmaster

    shadowmaster Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    animelord79
    XBL:
    shadoolord1979
    What I did back then was simply take a quick back dash immediately after I knock them down and then I do the back charged kick even if they do a quicker recovery kick low or mid, it will still miss and you will still have them caught in the kick. If they recover quickly and do recovery kicks fast the player can actually do the back charged kick without charging it to keep the enemy guessing as far as how fast the attack might be coming. I personally wouldn't want to use leg bombers either because the move can't be canceled if you know it is going to miss because the enemy rolled away or stayed on the ground etc. At least we agree on that at least.
     
  16. BLACKLAC

    BLACKLAC Well-Known Member

    back crouch dash /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif before committing the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif accuracy will be a lot better against rising lows and delayed rising mid, quick rising mid can get you though but a standing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif will take care of those
     
  17. White_Worm

    White_Worm Well-Known Member

    At just the right distance and right timing, OS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif(full charge) is pretty great. Not easy, but hilarious when it works /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Vane does a little (tiny) evasive backstep during it as well. Thats why the distance is so important. If your opp thinks they can hit you out of it, they'll try a rising mid every time.
     
  18. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    Actually i've noticed that vane also raises her foot off the ground while charging DS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif -- we might be onto something here /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbs_up.gif
     
  19. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    Today on the shoutbox cozby and Bfeck were deploring the lack of updates in the VF5 Akira subforum. Couple of minutes later KingOfCarnage casually threw out a vanessa oki strat /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif So i thought i'd post it here, killing two birds with one stone.

    The oki strat seems simple enough really: after the multipart DS hit-throws, if the opponent techrolls he'll be susceptible to low throws. In other words after you successfully input /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif CH or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif CH you can dash in and either low throw (if the opponent techrolls) or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif stomp (if he does nothing). I forgot to ask KoC what happens if the opponent recovers in-place /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif so if anybody wants to test it would be much appreciated.

    Btw, another oki strat i picked from KoC is doing OM after floating vane's DS slams with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. If the opponent stays in place you tag your stomp, if the opponent techrolls towards the opposite side of your OM, oh well (maybe there's options there too, please let me know) but if you guess right and they techroll towards the same side as your OM then an OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will backstagger them /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif and a subsequent /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will backcrumple them, leading to a free low back throw.

    Now i've only tried to use this while floating with the suboptimal /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif because tht's what i saw KoC doing in one of his vids but it might work with the default /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif floats too, if anybody feels like testing once again it would be much appreciated.
     
  20. TheUgg

    TheUgg Well-Known Member

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif



    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
     

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