Vanessa against Turtlers

Discussion in 'Vanessa' started by hananokeiji, Jun 15, 2002.

  1. hananokeiji

    hananokeiji Well-Known Member

    Sorry that I sounded like a newbie, but I found out that these days i am having a tough time trying to beat turtlers with Vanessa. These days i am fighting this Lau and all he did was back dash, and whenever i tried to catch him up to throw or attack, i got hit with his /versus/images/commands/UF.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif , my /versus/images/commands/F.gif/versus/images/commands/F.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif is not helping too much and /versus/images/commands/F.gif/versus/images/commands/F.gif /versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif or /versus/images/commands/F.gif/versus/images/commands/F.gif /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif is not doing too much. Any suggestions is greatly appreciated!!!
     
  2. Dandy_J

    Dandy_J Well-Known Member

    I'm not much of a Vanessa player, but /versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif staggers enough on high block to get in a (almost) free /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif. I would mix this up with /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif at long range if they start crouching under the /versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif. Depending on how good the person is that your playing, you may be able to catch them with /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif (hit) /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif. At close range, you should concentrate on short chains to apply pressure (something Van is very good at) and going in for throws. /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif is a move you should use sparingly, even against turtlers, and /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif is something that IMHO is used best after a stagger. Lastly, I think the best remedy for these situations is a good poke/throw game. In defensive stance, Vane has a great throw game with two different 270 throws, /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif, /versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif, and all of them do great damage. I hope this helps.

    Shouldn't this post be in the strat forum, tho?
     
  3. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
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    Myke623
    Shouldn't this post be in the strat forum, tho?

    Yep. Thread moved from Junky's Jungle.
     
  4. Mirkan

    Mirkan Well-Known Member

    This usually helps..

    [​IMG]

    No but really, Vanessa has a perfectly usable neutral catch counter.. If you play a Lau in Kumite, my advice is to wait for the Lau to attack you instead, and if he does, and goes for a pppk combo (he usually does), use that against him.

    Even if you're playing against human opposition, in any case, waiting is a great tactic. Like Cy here said, Vanessa has a great defensive game. I know this is pretty basic stuff, but it's sometimes the most basic stuff that slips your mind.
     
  5. sayow

    sayow Well-Known Member

    Vanessa Starters and Turtle Tactics

    <font color="white">You can exploit a turtle by his tendency to position his defense. If he's standing up and guarding, bust out a simple throw (/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif) and post an easy 40 points of damage on his candy @$$. If he's crouching, put a Rib Crush Body (/versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif) or a Rib Crush Knee (/versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif) and punish him that way. All these throws will make him think twice about that tactic again. Use the following if you want to get medieval...

    Defensive Stance
    1) /versus/images/commands/b.gif,/versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif > /versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif > /versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif
    2) /versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif -> /versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif
    3) /versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif -> /versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif
    4) /versus/images/commands/g.gif,/versus/images/commands/u.gif|/versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif -> /versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif
    5) /versus/images/commands/g.gif,/versus/images/commands/u.gif|/versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif -> /versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif
    6) /versus/images/commands/b.gif,/versus/images/commands/b.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif -> /versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif
    7) /versus/images/commands/db.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif > /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif > /versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif
    8) /versus/images/commands/p.gif,throw

    MT
    1) /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif -> /versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif -> /versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif -> /versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif -> /versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif
    2) /versus/images/commands/g.gif,/versus/images/commands/u.gif|/versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif -> /versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif
    3) /versus/images/commands/g.gif,/versus/images/commands/u.gif|/versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif -> /versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif
    4) /versus/images/commands/f.gif,/versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif,/versus/images/commands/p.gif,/versus/images/commands/p.gif
    5) /versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif ->*/versus/images/commands/k.gif -> /versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif
    6) /versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif,/versus/images/commands/k.gif -> /versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif
    6) /versus/images/commands/db.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif > /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif > /versus/images/commands/d.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif
    7) /versus/images/commands/b.gif,/versus/images/commands/b.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif -> /versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif
    8) /versus/images/commands/p.gif,throw

    You can easily tag on her pounces (/versus/images/commands/u.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif or /versus/images/commands/df.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif) but they are not always guaranteed...

    <font color="lightblue">[Just putting this down here so people can see it and copy it the old way...]

    You can exploit a turtle by his tendency to position his defense. If he's standing up and guarding, bust out a simple throw (P+G) and post an easy 40 points of damage on his candy @$$. If he's crouching, put a Rib Crush Body (d+P+K+G) or a Rib Crush Knee (df+P+K+G) and punish him that way. All these throws will make him think twice about that tactic again. Use the following if you want to get medieval...

    Defensive Stance
    1) b,f+P+K > d+K > d+K
    2) df+P+K -> df+P+K+G
    3) df+P+K -> d+P+K+G
    4) G,u|d+P -> df+P+K+G
    5) G,u|d+P -> d+P+K+G
    6) b,b+K+G -> df+P+K+G
    7) db+K+G > PPPK > d+K+G
    8) P,throw

    MT
    1) f+P+K -> f+P+K -> d+K -> d+K -> d+K+G
    2) G,u|d+P -> df+P+K+G
    3) G,u|d+P -> d+P+K+G
    4) f,f+P+K,P,P
    5) df+P ->*K -> df+K
    6) df+P,K -> df+K
    6) db+K+G > PPPK > d+K+G
    7) b,b+K+G -> df+P+K+G
    8) P,throw

    You can easily tag on her pounces (u+P or df+K) but they are not always guaranteed... </font color>
     
  6. ken

    ken Well-Known Member

    Strategically you have the answer in front of you.

    You can pinpoint and identify yours and your opponents course of action and a likely result. Maybe you should try a different combination.

    lau's /versus/images/commands/uf.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif is simply blocked mid and is counterable if blocked. If you can force him to do this move then you can bait him into doing more often for you to counter.

    Everymove has a particular weakness or advantage. You can also choose to dodge him as well. Turtling is not a very effective tactic. Although it is a very effective tactic vs you. Maintain composure and don't play into the Lau's game.
     
  7. Typhoon

    Typhoon Well-Known Member

    If Lau keeps backdashing and stays out of reach of most of your attacks, you need to move in fast and be able to strike back, obviously. Fortunately Lau's /versus/images/commands/UF.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif frame execution is a little slow. From DS try /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif to slide in fast and immediately execute WS+/versus/images/commands/p.gif or WS+/versus/images/commands/k.gif (better range). The move in should make Lau think you are going to attack, which you are... if he tries the backflip you should catch him for counter with both the WS /versus/images/commands/p.gif or /versus/images/commands/k.gif. Obviously he will get wise soon enough and stop backflipping in order to guard. Thats where you get to play mix-up: WS+/versus/images/commands/p.gif or /versus/images/commands/k.gif for mid, /versus/images/commands/D.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif low or throw.
    From MT I find that /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif doesn't step forward enough to make decent ground. Surprisingly /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif,/versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif,/versus/images/commands/k.gif seems to push her forward enough and the second hit comes out really fast... enough to catch Lau tho? Maybe.
    Hope that helps somewhat.
     
  8. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Don't forget Vanessa's best moves that work quite well on Lau:

    /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif (not throw counterable)
    /versus/images/commands/D.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif,/versus/images/commands/p.gif - stomach crumble
    /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif - Sabaki
    /versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif - sabaki's almost anything high or low (even crescents)

    Here's a great Vanessa flow chart that works surprisngly well.

    /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif (blocked) /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif (sabaki)/versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif(sabaki)/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif

    It's very frustrating for your opponened if you pull it off, but it's very likely you will. Since they can't get a throw in after the /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif there's a good chance he'll come punching. Which will then be sabaki'ed. After that, you have the frame advantage, but won't be able to throw. Most likely, they'll low punch (or low sweep) which will also be sabaki'ed. When you sabaki a low attack w/ /versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif your throw isn't guaranteed, but unless they KNOW you've got a throw coming, you'll likely get it.

    Enjoy
     

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