Vanessa - Ask a question, get an answer

Is there any favorite situation you like to use the catch? Id like to use it more often since its a very powerfull catch

 

Personally i use it after:

(i) after DS stagger.

IMHO it's a decent mixup with , most opponents don't have time to duck if they expect the mid floater. This is probably a decent mixup after OS Intruder Step/jump stagger too - but again, personally, i tend to go for a regular throw in those cases (since the opponent is not pushed back that much).

(ii) after breaking an (experienced) opponent's throw.

Some opponents always break sidethrows and feel confident just standing there holding their throw escape. The catch throw cannot be escaped. Similarly, it can also be used after sideturning these types of opponents (but i keep forgetting to do that ).

I guess i could also use the catch throw:

(iii) when i anticipate the opponent will backdash.

...but i tend to use or in those cases.

and

(iv) randomly substituting a normal throw once in a while.

I've seen it in vids, and it works, but again, i just keep forgetting about it

EDIT: completely forgot about oki (see below) thanks Maki!

(v) While the opponent techrolls. Particularly if you've scared them with a meaty attack beforehand.

I tend to forget about that too - too much on wakeup

 

Thanks dude! I really need to practice my sideturns too... =/

 

is a very efficient move, i usually use it after the opponent tech roll if i know that he will guard or evades. it s efficient too for ringouts ur opponent will be under stress and will think that u ll attack...
Try to learn to use the intruder step, u can get a takedown (like with ) and u can mix it with some powerful moves.
To finish u can use it after any stagger too =)
Hope it will be helpful =)

 

yeah dude i really need to work on my intruder step too, thanks!

 

What's a good mixup for the mount, preferably a meaty?

Right now I'm looking at 66K, but any better options?

 

I'm guessing OS since it will crumple on any sidehit

...as can be seen in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlNLb4XT_8s

...that was linked in the relevant thread: http://virtuafighter.com/threads/guaranteed-side-crumple-on-side-roll-recovery.17882/ .

 

66K+G is definitely good if you have an aggressive opponent. If you opponent is defensive though 66k is going to be safer. I've been murdered for using 66k+g and having it evaded.

 

In Os it s good to use both and near to the wall also use 66P
In ds i like to use 3K+G P+G as meaty or 66P if ur timing is good u get a stagger =)

 

@Chefboy_OB you are right as usual, OS is great for oki, i just didn't mention it because the OP had already mentioned it. Besides, Alstein asked "what to mixup with mount" so i was thinking along the lines of a hard 50/50 guess But yeah, OS is awesome, a chance to float without any downsides - i keep reminding myself to use it more! In fact...

@Alstein can be cancelled to mount! So, technically speaking, you don't even have to mix it up with anything else, you alrady have your 50/50 If an opponent is being defensive or guards on reaction when they see coming, you can start cancelling it to mount (something that's impossible to do with )!

Other than that, since Chefboy mentioned the possibility of an opponent evading OS , i'd like to remind everyone that OS is still a valid option vs opponents who like to press buttons/evade to vane's stomach on wakeup. And if they block/evade to vane's back there's OS . Anyway, to be fair, these are considerably less safe options (since they can be ducked) and i tend to stick to 50/50 myself.

Maki, IMHO in DS is better than DS :

(i) if it lands as a meaty (ie. normal side hit) is guaranteed which deals the same damage as the hit-throw. So the midkick does 20+30=50 dmg and the midpunch does 28+30=58. So 8 points of dmg more for (and vanessa ends up at +4 with the opponent sideturned as a bonus).

(ii) if it lands as a CH the shoulder ram is guaranteed. It does 24 dmg instead of 30 BUT on CH is fairly more damaging than . Being conservative (50% damage bonus) we have 20*1.5+30=60 dmg for the midkick and 28*1.5+24=66. So the midpunch does 6 additional damage (and the opponent is staggered as a bonus).

(iii) if is blocked vanessa has the advantage (-8 vs +3 for normal block). I don't hink meaties are sideblocked are they? If they are, then the situation on block difference is even larger (-5 vs +9).

(iv) if it's evaded, eh, same situation as with - vanessa is in trouble

But i guess it's kinda harder to use because you have to really look for the hit effects (white, yellow, blue flash etc.).

There's also DS which behaves more like (meaning that when it lands, it lands, you get the same combo no matter what, no need to pay attantion to the hit type) but i haven't had much success landing in on wakeup In theory it's potentially very damaging so if anyone has any tips on the timing/after which particular floats it can land as a meaty i would be VERY grateful.

 

The is good for sure i didn t mentionned it but it takes long time to do it. For exemple if i use this combo : ->-> to succeed the meaty u do : OM -> or In this situation the is useless coz too slow (or i didn t find the way to use it) and the gives u around 50 damage so why not =)

For the yes it s usefull but against an heavyweigth u won t get a big dmg around 50 too but not sure too succeed, coz this move is slow too. I advice the coz it s faster and u got 50 easy dmg points.

That doesn t mean to not use or as meaty. In fact u have to use each meaties for one combo. Like for the
For exemple u can use for this combo: ->-> the meaty u just have to crouch dash once very fastly first and u ll get a meaty...
There is a lot of situation but i think to make a thread about it will be better

 

Thanks for warning me about DS being too slow in these siatuations Maki! I'll try more.

I have a somewhat relevant question. After a short discussion in the shoutbox i realized that i only use DS against sideturned opponents...

...so my question is: are there OTHER uses for DS besides fishing for sidecrumples after ?

 

I m not sure that u can get a side crumple with another move... By definition u obtain a sidecrumple with a mid on CH (or NH for some moves and not all chars). In fact you can get one more but there is a condition, with the when the opponent is ST u can get a crumple if the opponent is staggering... like when u re parallele to the wall -> (not sure that u ll succeed, or do a at 45° of the wall to get a wall stagger + ST and once again ) but if u use the u ll get the same result (maybe more dmg with , but more frame to connect)

 

I apologize. I tried the meaties with 6k+g and with 4p it connects with combo 1p+k. It s a ggood news for me =))))))

 

What are the best stuff i could use to have a bigger combo window?

Shes got an elbow attack thats very useful, but i dont know the command, did it by mistake...

 

Rafael, look, if u wanna become a good player u have to learn step by step. U cannot learn combos if u don t know the command list. Mainly for van, she s got 2 stances and more moves than all cast. Combos come once the command list is learnt... I advice u to choose a stance first and everyday before starting to play online, go to dojo commands, finish it, remind u of 2 or 3 moves and try to use it online... Once u re feel good with one stance, do the same for the second. do it everyday until u know the whole command list. Btw the move ur re talking about is the pile bunker in offensive stance

 

Do you mean combo starters that are easier to time against opponents who techroll? You could just look at the command list for moves that have more than 3 active frames.

Here's a quick list (i skipped high attacks and attacks that don't yield a combo or a float or something intersting):

DS mid, 4 active frames, combo on side hit
DS mid, 4 active frames, knock down on hit
DS special low, 4 active frames, crumple on counter hit
DS mid, 4 active frames, slam on hit
DS mid, 4 active frames, crumple on hit (too slow, i'm guessing it's impossible to time this move in order to connect vs techrolling opponents)

OS mid, 4 active frames, hit-throw on counter hit
OS special high, 4 active frames, guaranteed on counter hit
OS mid, 4 active frames, float on hit
OS mid, 4 active frames, slam on hit (practically identical to DS version, except the range is shorter)
OS mid, 4 active frames, crumple on hit (identical to DS version, the float is more damaging though)

Now, i was about to write something similar to what Maki just wrote, but i'll go into greater detail: the above question is formulated VERY badly. "an elbow attack that's very useful". Which stance? What sort of usefulness?

Here are vanessa's elbow class moves:

DS a high counter hit launcher
DS an evasive mid poke (this is what I though of when i read your question)
DS BT an evasive mid poke, identical to but performed from the back turned position
DS BT a special high counter hit launcher
DS a high launcher, guaranteed if lands as a counter hit.

OS a high launcher (this is what Maki thought of when he read your question)
OS a mid poke
OS BT a special high counter hit launcher

But you could also be referring to:

DS a throw, named "Elbow Rush"
OS a mid poke, frequently referred to as her "elbow speed" move
OS takedown a multipart throw, i admit i'm stretching it a bit here but i've seen players refer to it as "mount elbows".

As you can see, two different people thought of two different things because your question was so abstract.

So please remember, Vanessa has a LONG command list and it's very hard for other vanessa players to help you when you don't take the time to phrase your questions in coherent manner.

Going through her command list in the dojo once doesn't hurt either

 

Or just learn 9P combos.

 

Maki and Erdraug, thanks! You solved my questions, thanks for the tips!

 

And im sorry for the messy question, the elbow i was talking about was some sort or uprising elbow that put the anemy in to the air giving a good combo window, i think on the DS maybe.

As im not with my playstation right now, im playing at my friend Hotrod666's tattoo shop, so i cant practice the dojo at home yet in lie a month ill be with my own ps3

thanks again!