Vanessa: Day One

Discussion in 'Vanessa' started by LobeliaM72, Feb 28, 2009.

  1. LobeliaM72

    LobeliaM72 Well-Known Member

    For the first time, I'm seriously considering switching to another character(other than Pai), and I think I want that character to be Vanessa. This has a lot to do with Virtua Fighter 5 R, but it's more because Pai is honestly beginning to bore me, and I want some spice in my life.
    Is there a good place I can learn about entry-level, day one Vanessa techniques, such as easy combos and what her best throws are?
  2. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    Entry level?

    Let's give it a shot :D Considering everybody's first contact with vanessa is from her default stance, we'll start with that.

    DS Vane's best entry-level throw is [6] [P] + [G] - thank god too because you'll get it a lot when you miss the timing on her hit-thtrows ;)

    Easy combos, well, that's kinda harder...

    From DS her easiest combo starter is [3] [P] + [K]. Continue with [P] + [K] [P], [P] [P] [P] + [K] + [G].

    That's a high move though. She sort of lacks easy mid combo starters. On simple hit you have [3] [K] + [G] which requires you to quickly input [6] [P] + [G] (notice it's the same throw input?), that can be hard at the begining. There's [6] [P] + [K] [P] and [8] [K] which guarantee you a [8] [P] pounce but they are retarded slow, amongst other problems. On counterhit (yellow flash) you have [6] [K] which again requires quickly inputting [6] [P] + [G] for the hit-throw (again the same throw!) and [G] + [2] [P], the weird side-punch for an easy [P] + [K] [P] + [K] + [G] followup. That move can get you into trouble though because if your opponent counterhits you instead, vane might end up sideturned :sick:

    This wall of text can be summed up as "if you can't consistently perform vane's DS hit-throws than forget about combo starters and poke away". Unfortunately in your opening post you stated that you're considering dropping Pai because she "is honestly beginning to bore you" so i don't think a poking game is what you're searching.

    Introducing the other stance!

    Best entry level throw from OS is probably [3] [3] [P] + [G] - good damage for an easy input & it will fake an opponent who's used to breaking [6] ;) Rest assured though, her standard [6] [P] + [G] throw is there if you need it :)

    For a high combo starter you have [6] [P] + [K] > pounce. Fast, strong & demoralizing move. There's also [9] [P] which is quite slow but has good range and leaves you with the advantage even if blocked! On hit follow up with [6] [P] [P] [K].

    What's REALLY nice in OS however is the presence of multiple easy mid combo starters. Her staple is [9] [K] + [G], a.k.a. "tiger knee" which floats the opponent high in the air and where you can follow up with [6] [P] [P] [K]. There's also [4] [3] [P] + [K], the "russian hook", which even though a bit slower can beat high attacks from disadvantage, giving you a free pounce. Both those attacks are punishable on block though. If you want a safer option it's back to the hit-throws, this time with [4] [K] + [G] > [P] + [G]. Vastly inferior to the DS version but hey, it's there i you need it ;) Finally, if you're feeling like showing off there's [4] [1] [2] [3] [6] [P] which guarantees a [6] [6] [K] scrape :D

    OS vane has strong options on CH too, [3] [P] will send them into the air where you can do [6] [P] [P] [K]. It won't work against wolf and against Goh, Lion and El Blaze you'll have to do [P] [K] [P] instead but aaaaaaaaanyway, it's still strong as you opponent gets knocked of his feet anyway, plus the move evades some high attacks :LOL: There's of course a CH hit-throw too, this time with [4] [6] [K] > [6] [P] + [K] (weird input for a hit-throw, i know) just in case you don't feel like taking risks with combo starters.

    In addition to these stance specific moves, a while-rising [P] from both stances will stagger your opponent, [6] [K] + [G] is a slow kick that slams down which you'll always have a use for in long range and, finally, [4] [4] [K] + [G] is even slower but you can low throw your opponent if the move connects :cool:

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited: May 8, 2015
  3. White_Worm

    White_Worm Well-Known Member

    Vanessa is a very difficult character to learn all the way through, and she is NOT for beginners.

    Assuming you have VF experience already, heres a tip that may help you to start with Vane. Go through her entire movelist, but only commit to memory the moves that are from defensive stance (DS). Now, start playing quest mode using only DS. If you get switched to offensive, switch back immediately. Do that for a while then hit up her command training again. Now play quest using only offensive stance (OS).

    A week of that should give you a handle on the basics of Vanessa. Once you know everything she can do from each stance, then you can get into how and when to switch stances.

    Beyond that, something to keep in mind is that DS has a ton of sabakis, while OS has lots of fast combos. If you're having trouble beating an opponent in DS, switch to OS next round, and visea-versa.
  4. LobeliaM72

    LobeliaM72 Well-Known Member

    Thanks, everyone. I'll start training immediately.
    Just an update: So far, I'm enamored with the Defensive Style and am already starting to get the hang of it. I can tell that Vanessa is a difficult character to play as, but honestly, I love her so much that I'll stick to her no matter what happens.
  5. Mlai

    Mlai Well-Known Member

    Don't mind me I'm just necro'ing threads since I started VF5 years later than u guys.

    Training with Van now, something I had wanted to do back in VF4evo but never had the chance to.

    Question about the DS hit-throws: What's the difference between the guillotine neck choke, and the alternate knee to the head if you press K? I notice the damage is the same. I hear the neck choke gives you a guaranteed pounce. Then why the heck is the (slightly) harder-input alternate less powerful??

    Erdraug didn't mention the OS spear/lancer tackle at all. I thought that's Van's OS signature? Why, it's not good at higher level play or something?

    So the Russian Hook ducks under highs? I had thought that move looked absolutely useless.

    Why does he say the UF+K+G is an OS staple? That move is complete bunk in PS3 VF5, like a sad imitation of everyone else's knee. Do you mean it's fixed in the X360 VF5?

    Side note... I hate how her dark hair color doesn't change her eyebrow color also. WTF?! Is this fixed in later game versions?
  6. Richkwondo

    Richkwondo Well-Known Member

    Lancer tackle is something high level players expect. So do it only after the blowback combo, or one of the many moves that cancel into lancer. FYI , 9K+G , called H.a.wk., is a great Vanessa move. Its not bunk at all. H.a.w.k is a launcher, you are guaranteed a juggle after a luacher. If they dont tech their landing, you are guaranteed a pounce move after H.a.w.k. and a juggle. Good players dont usually use the regular lancer, 44p+K beacuse it is so easily read and punished by a good player. I would say unless you are against a flailing Lei Fei player that starts his combo by beating up the air ten feet from you, don't use the vanilla Lancer ever.

    This is VF 101. You have to learn yomi, reading your opponent. There are many times when H.a.w.k is the best move in to do, especially when you are trying to turn the tables in a match. Why are so many people crazy for H.a.wk. ? Because H.a.w.k is a mid that has properties that can beat a crouching punch. Crouching punch is what so many intermediate players use when at disadvantage.

    When you whiff a big move, you are at frame disadvantage. This is a good time to use her sabaki (deflecting) move like 46P+K it sabakismid kicks and knees. 46K in DS is a good opener, because it deflects high punches and kicks, and it is a slight launcher so you can juggle . More than focusing on her lancer, you should concentrate on mastering her intrude hook. Hold G,2P it is a good move to do while your opponent is attacking in a combo. Intrude hook is best used to counter gaps in you opponents offense, or to stop a pursuit after you've just teched( used a quick recovery). A key thing to know is intrude hook causes stomach crumple on counter hit, which means you can low throw for huge damage. Enjoy it now , because low throwing a stomach crumpled character is being removed from VF5 Final Showdown.

    Vanessa is one of my mains. I envy you . You are going to have a lot of fun learning her.
  7. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

    One lets them tech leading to possible tech-trap, the other doesnt, giving you guaranteed ground kick.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    Why does he say the UF+K+G is an OS staple? That move is complete bunk in PS3 VF5, like a sad imitation of everyone else's knee. Do you mean it's fixed in the X360 VF5?
    H.A.W.K. strike is pretty standard knee with a floatcombo followup.. Dunno what you think is bunk in it. I use it always when Im playing Vanessa.
  8. Jeneric

    Jeneric Well-Known Member

    [9][K]+[G] was 19 frames in Version A (PS3 version) and sped up to 17 frames in Ver C (360 Version)
  9. Mlai

    Mlai Well-Known Member

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would say unless you are against a flailing Lei Fei player that starts his combo by beating up the air ten feet from you,</div></div>
    LOL like in old kung fu movies.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Enjoy it now , because low throwing a stomach crumpled character is being removed from VF5 Final Showdown.</div></div>
    Aww crap what?! Damn spoilsports at Sega! Why does everything have to be striking combos!?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HAWK was 19 frames in Version A (PS3 version) and sped up to 17 frames in Ver C (360 Version)</div></div>
    I doubt I'm 133t enough to have noticed a difference of 2 frames. What I have noticed is that it hits at the end of its attack, not at the beginning (instantaneous) like other ppl's knee launchers. And either the hit detection is wonky, or its range is just pathetically low.

    That's the problem I have with it: High risk knee move without the good points such as range or priority. Use only when opponent whiffs a big one.
  10. Hazzerone

    Hazzerone Well-Known Member

    As explained earlier the knee beats low punch. This makes it a very threatening move to use as yomi, if used correctly it will really demoralise them out of their low punch tendencies and if this happens it will just become that much easier to pressure them.

    I might have to pick Vanessa up. I really want to use a character with low throws and really good sabaki moves as it would allow me to take a different approach both on the attack and on the defence. Last time I "tried" to "learn" Vanessa all I did was DS [3][K] and back dash, lool.
  11. Chefboy_OB

    Chefboy_OB Well-Known Member

    Use knee to beat failed evades, crush rising attacks,and/or to beat attempts to move forward. You'll find the amount of hits you get with [9][P] + [K] increase significantly. It really doesn't work well against moves with low hit-boxes, but it doesn't really need to.
  12. DrunkenFist

    DrunkenFist Active Member

    Vanessa is a good character. My friend plays her very well. She has answers to all situations in her stances and can really mix it up. Good wakeup game, good damage, she is solid but as are most characters in this game when played properly. Good luck with her

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