Vanessa Faq, Second Draft, Second Half ==================================================================================== Step 3 - Stringing Moves Together / Defining Flowcharts ==================================================================================== For this section I think I may make note of a couple of Vanessa Videos that I have enjoyed, for the sake of examples. If you cannot get the clips, don't worry, as they are only to give you a visual example, and aren't necessary for learning. To find the clips go to this link: http://www.feixaq.com/vf4/media.html Under the section of Latest Files (depending how old this Faq is it might be in Japanese clips section) look for the subheading of Daioh Field Tournament Clips and then find the 9th Daioh Cup clip #6, which should be titled daioh_hi02420_6.wmv http://zzipper.x-y.net/nick/nomercy/vs027.html and download vsdd14.wmv for a Vanessa player called Rivian http://zzipper.x-y.net/nick/nomercy/vs033.html looking for vsse05.wmv for a Vanessa player named Kiro http://www.feixaq.com/vf4/media.html and download daioh_1-19noji8.wmv from the Daioh section, and also go to the Amusement act section and locate 0329-will_devi and 0329-will_gasyuin. That's all the clips im going to suggest right now, although there are plenty of them out there. If you have a fast internet connect and some space on your computer I suggest you get as many clips as you can. They are a great tool for learning. I wish I had video capture equipment so I could make my own clips to accompany this Faq. Once again I would like to remind you that it isn't necessary to download any of the clips, but its a benefit if you can. If you really like to see great players in action I suggest you download tonnes of them. Even clips of other players and characters can be helpful, as it can prepare you for what high level opponents might attempt against you, as well as showing how people handle situations with and against a multitude of characters. A Quick definition of Flow Charts, and Set Ups for the uninitiated: Flow Charting is a method of reviewing your most viable options after specific situations. You are determining what moves best 'flow' after one another in terms of frames and special properties. Good flow charting will allow you to keep a reference of useful follow-ups for most any situations so you will never have to sit there wondering what move you should try to use next. Your goal when think of flow chart options are few. Firstly you want to find the follow-up with the greatest chance of success, then the follow-up that will give you the most damage, or frame advantage, and also finding which follow-ups lead to special situations, like floats, crumples, or slams that can lead to extra damage. Basic Flow Charting can be as simple as keeping these pointers in mind: When your opponent is content to guard standing up --> Throw him, or hit him with a low strike (like db+K, or d+K,P,P). Also try baiting your opponent into letting go of the guard, by intentionally letting him block a move that gives you the advantage, like P+K,P or MT f+P,P,K. With the P+K,P you want him to guard the whole thing and then attempt a counter hit, which you can stomp using a quicker poke, since you have the advantage. In the case of the MT f+P,P,K you will try to use delays, or cancelling the combo short to make him feel that you are done, and he can retaliate. Lastly, you can attempt a guard stagger or break on an opponent who is content to stand and guard. K+G, or b,b+K+G (charged) and db+K (charged) will knock person out of their guarding status for a follow-up. When your opponent is crouching --> hit him with a mid hit or string which will often cause a stagger or knockdown, or you can low throw him. When the crouch is for the purpose of setting up a low hit or a throw you can use db+K+G to float him, or db+P (d+P in MT) to low sabaki him. If your opponent goes on the offensive --> Jab, DS df+P, low punch, sabaki, reversal, evade, utilize a move with evasive properties (such as /versus/images/commands/g.gifu+P vs linear attacks, or db+K or d+K+G against high hits). Your reaction will depend on the type of attack that he attempts. But in general, Vanessa has an answer for just about every attack your opponent will do, that will put you back on the offence. If your opponent is trying to create distance ---> f,f+K is a great tool to punish backdashers. P,P,P,K string or P,P,K can follow your opponent backwards often to keep pressure on. Also b,f+P+K,P and f,f+P+K,P travel forward well. You can also crouch dash towards him and attempt to nail him with a throw or ws+P or MT f+P+K. If your opponent is trying to reduce distance ---> often your opponent will try to come forward when you backdash. but whatever the reason, when your opponent tries to get closer: Low hit him. Moving forward and blocking low isnt the easiest thing to do, and people leave themselves open to attacks like d+K+G and d+K,P,P. Also use /versus/images/commands/g.gifu+P often, as a quick rush towards you will often mean a linear attack is coming. You can also use moves which will bring you back out of range, such as b,b+K+G and b+K if you would like to maintain a distance. Finally, a quick poke of any height can be added during the moments when your opponent is moving forward without blocking, to be followed up with the appropriate flow chart. Below is a really loose guide to what you can use to counter an incoming hit at certain frame advantages/disadvantages. When deciding these things i went by two factors: Firstly, whether or not a throw attempt is guaranteed, and secondly, whether your follow-up will beat, or be beaten by a low punch. I use the low punch as the example opponent follow-up because it is a very common move, and one of the quicker and more irritating moves that you will see abused. Naturally if your opponent is prone to using a particular follow-up with a longer execution time, you can alter your flow chart to reflect this, giving you more moves which could counter hit him. Bear in mind that this is more of a counter hitting guide, than an example of proper flow charting. When you are put at -8 or more frames prepare yourself to escape a throw. If he follows with a hit you can attempt a sabaki, or reversal or evade or block or duck etc, but you are at such a disadvantage that you really have to be on the defensive. If you are much more than -8 frames, or staggered, you need to block, or prepare to escape a throw, and pray. At -5 to -7 frames your opponent might feel like throwing you, or attacking with a relatively fast strike, in which case you should focus on your sabaki attacks ( b,f+K,P and db+P or MT d+P) You can also try a reversal in this situation if your opponent doesn't seem likely to attempt the throw. -3 to -4 frames and your df+P will still beat a couple followups. Depending on your opponent you may want to focus on destroying a low punch follow-up. All your defensive manoeuvres can still be utilized at this disadvantage. Slow follow-ups by your opponent can be capitalized upon using pokes in the 12-16 frame range, but use with caution. When you have -2 to +1 frames of advantage try df+P, or d+P, /versus/images/commands/g.gifu+P vs. slower linear attacks. And of course, use any of your defensive moves if the need arises. You can also use quick mids in this situation if you believe your opponent will try a slower follow-up. Standing Jab in both stances is decent, but be wary of opponents trying to low punch. At +2 to +3 frames you can get in your ws+P before most attacks of your opponents. df+K will also beat most attacks, especially when at +3 frames. From this you can also use your standing, and crouching jabs. In MT stance you can hit with the f+P elbow and do so quicker than an opponents low punch. Also, the MT f+P+K elbow should be considered. At +4 to +5 frames you can get away with df+K easily, and also the f+P back knuckle. The stopping low kick d+K,P,P will also just barely make it as a counter at +5 frames vs. a low punch. +6-7 at this point both the P+K,P and db+P will get through most follow-ups. In MT stance you may even be able to score a counter with MT df+P for a float at this advantage. +8-10 frames is high throw time, since you cannot be hit out of the throw at that point, the opponent can only hope to escape it. +11 or more and you can start throwing out whatever you want, im not going to list all the viable options. Just look to the frame stats and determine what will beat 12 + the advantage you have in frames, which will generally allow you to counter whatever your opponent throws at you. Flowcharting after some individual moves: -------------------------------------------------------------- In general, you can use any of the follows listed in the line above the one your reading as well. P - blocked ---> d+P, df+P, P, the string (P,K, or P,P,K to finish, hoping to trick him) P - Connect ---> throw, P, String, d+P, db+K, df+K, cd,n+P, df+P P - Counter ---> Throw, String, d+P, db+K, df+K, cd,n+P, f+P(string), P+K,P, sabaki d+P - blocked ---> ws+P, Throw, d+P, fc+K, gu+P, Sabaki, reversal d+P - Connect ---> ws+P, Throw, ws+K, fc+K, gu+P d+P - Counter ---> throw, ws+P, etc ws+P - Blocked ---> Sabaki, reverval, cut-in sabaki, d+P, P, db+K, ETEG ws+P - Connect ---> Throw, P, d+P, gu+P, sabaki, df+K ws+P - Counter ---> f,f+P,P, df+[k], P+K,P, f,f+K, f,f+K+G, f,f+P+K, db+K+G db+K - mostly the same as d+P df+K - blocked ---> sabaki, df+P, low punch or db+K to avoid high reprisals. Reversal, or go on defense. df+K - connect ---> jab, d+P df+K - counter or stagger ---> f+P,K,K, f,f+K, f,f+P,P, f,f+K+G, throw P+K,P - blocked ---> ws+P, low punch, jab, df+K P+K,P - connect ---> any of the above, or f+P,K,K, or d+K,P,P P+K,P - counter ---> throw, /versus/images/commands/g.gifu+P, f,f+K b,f+K,P - blocked ---> see P+K,P above b,f+K,P - connect ---> same as blocked b,f+K,P - counter ---> Float, See the combo section if the kick counters, or df+K, f+P,k,k, d+K,P,P, P+K,P, or also try df+P+K to force a crouch b,f+K,P - sabaki ---> generally the same as a hit MT STANCE P - blocked ---> d+P, another jab, f+P or f+P+K to try and catch a slow followup P - connect ---> Throw, not guaranteed by any means, but works surprisingly well. P - counter ---> Throw, /versus/images/commands/g.gifu+P, df+K, sweep, or low hits such at d+K,P,P, also K,K,P,P d+P - blocked ---> another d+P vs low pokes, evade, or defend or crouch d+P - connect ---> f+P, df+K, low throw d+P - counter ---> low throw, K,K,P,P, /versus/images/commands/g.gifu+P f+P - blocked ---> continue with P,K using delays, d+P vs low, Jab vs slower counters, and defensive techniques f+P - connect ---> continue combo, and use above f+P - counter ---> same as above, or f+P again or f+P+K You will by now note that a great deal of my focus is on maintaining a frame advantage, aswell as using safe, quick moves to avoid leaving holes in your defence. This will help you to play a less dangerous game, but it may very well make you boring. Every player needs to learn when to take chances on bigger, and flashier moves. They not only can score big damage, but add both variety, and excitement to your matches. For example, the Bay Area player M_3 in the bavf0518-m3.wmv clip that I suggested above used the very slow and awkward K+G to catch his opponent at she was rising from a techroll. The opponent guarded instinctively, and, due to the K+G being a guard staggering move, the Vanessa Player was able to land a powerful string of hits, for the win. Some moves will just plain work on a person, despite being considered too slow or too obvious by me. f,f+K+G and f,f+P+K for example may just catch some people unaware. It is important to experiment with all of your moves, to discover what will work in any given situation. I am just giving you some of the safer options in the above sections. It is up to you to discover the appropriate times to take risks against your opponents. Some ideas to try are d+P+K against a techroller; db+K+G when you stagger your opponent; b,f+P+K,P on a rising opponent; MT b,f+P,P,P,K (whole, or part) during an attack rush, try out your hit throws from mid range, or f+K hit throw up close when you have +3 frames, or when you see a slower move (16+ frames, so not too slow) being executed; MT f+K,K,P as a counter, or to mixup your strings; MT f,f+P+K,P,P on a rising enemy; MT f+K+G during a stagger, or when the opponent is forced back (follow with a pounce). OKIZEME SECTION -------------------------------------------------------------------- This will be a small section discussing how to put pressure on a downed or rising opponent, and how to tack on extra damage while someone is prone. At any point in time when you are near your opponent and he is lying on the ground you can use the df+K soccer kick to add extra damage. Particularily useful after throws which do not allow techrolling away. If your opponent is slammed into the ground, or bounces off of a wall in the way described in Trial Training Mode, you can attempt to add the u+P pounce maneouvre which will add about 25 damage. Also, when they collapse from a crumple you can land this move. If your opponent will rise with a Low Rising Kick (d+K) you can hop over his attack, and often score a counterhit with db+K+G. This move goes over low hits like the rising kick and can net you float damage aswell. Another way to defeat this move is with the elbow sabaki attack (db+P in DS, d+P in MT). As it will sabaki the sweep for you. If your opponent will rise with a Mid Rising Kick (K) you can avoid and counter attack with a well timed b,b+K+G remember that you can charge this move to delay it. It may be necessary to add this move onto a backdash to get enough distance to make the opponents kick whiff (b,b,b+K+G) A properly timed f,f+K can also disrupt the rising kicks. Also, if your opponent is in one of the following positions while on the ground - FUHT, FDHA, or FDHT if the opponent rolls to the side first - You can reverse the rising mid Kick from those positions. Any other position will result in a full circular rising kick, which you cannot reverse. When your opponent techrolls you can use a move like df+K or f,f+K to strike him while he is vulnerable (df+K, or f+K, in MT) either trying for crouch stagger, or a knockdown. Also you could attempt to throw him. Low throws at this time are very successful, because, as you should know, techrollers recover in the crouching position for a moment. This means there is a small period of time in which a low throw could connect if you catch your opponent with his guard down. You could also attempt a high throw, if your opponent stands and blocks after a techroll, believing a strike is coming. Some other possible moves to do while an opponent is rising are f,f+K+G,f+P+G or K+G, or f,f+P+K,P. Bear in mind each of these moves are incredibly risky. The idea with them is to try to catch your opponent just as he rises to he panics and blocks high instinctively. The K+G if blocked will give you the chance for more damage, due to its guard stagger property, while the other two attacks also wreck people who are blocking high. ============================================================= Step Four - Learning Through Examples ============================================================= To further help understand the choices you will have to make in a battle, i think I will use this section to give my input on the video clips. Go to http://zzipper.x-y.net/nick/nomercy/vs027.html and download vsdd14.wmv First to be discussed is this battle between Nick (Jeffrey) and Rivian (Vanessa) Bear in mind that many of the choices made in the videos could very well be based on the players personal knowledge, and experience against the other man, and my insight is only one possible reasoning behind the movements. The match begins and the Vanessa's First Move is to crouch dash away, which has the bonus of luring the enemy towards her, and avoiding high hits and throws, which Jeffrey (her opponent) is great with. The Jeffrey player seemingly falls into Vanessa's trap, as his first action upon the start of the match is to dash up and attempt a throw. The Vanessa, who is in the crouching position avoids the throw, and retaliates with a ws+P. Unfortunately the move is begun a bit late to minor counter, and the throws execution and recovery time is small enough, that the Jeffrey is able to block it. This puts the Vanessa Player at -4 frames. The Jeffrey player momentarily pauses before beginning what he hopes would be a counter hit f+K (execution of 17 frames), while the Vanessa player, concentrating on her offence begins a f+P,K,K string as soon as she recovers (16 frames to execute the f+P). Because of the pause by the Jeffrey player, the f+P connects as a counter, and the follow-up kicks also land on their mark. This brings up a very important point: With the frame info I detailed above, I was giving you those moves with are the safest to execute, using the d+P as the example of an opponents follow-up attack. Also, I was assuming that no delay between the moves would occur. As you can see in the above example, even skilled opponents need time to regroup, and often pause, if slightly many times during a match. This means, that although my listing gave you the safest counters to utilize, it is not the only effective tools in the situation. these come from knowing your opponent, and reacting to specific situations in a match. Now, back to the vid. The f+P,K,K all hits, and the last hit puts you at +4 frames. Notice that it also pushes the opponent out of range of throws, and short range moves. The Vanessa follows up that assault with a well chosen d+K,P,P. The reasons this move is a great choice are many. Firstly, for the Jeffrey to connect with an attack from that range he will either have to move forward momentarily (at the expense of frames/time), begin a longer ranged attack that will be slower than what he needs (since Vanessa is at +4 frames, it needs to be quick), and thirdly, it mixes up the attack heights by starting low. So, because its only 17 frames to execute normally, it will beat just about any attack Jeffrey could throw. This Jeffrey is smart, and seeing the disadvantage he is in, chooses to defend. He blocks the low kick, and ducks under the follow-up punch, the last high punch catches him however, doing what I assume would be an attempted counter attack, or perhaps he felt the Vanessa was going to cancel the string, and strike mid, or low throw. At any rate, the last hit has a special property that Slams the opponent painfully to the ground, which makes it impossible to quick rise, or techroll from. As far as I am aware, this situation gives you a guaranteed pounce move. The Vanessa player knows this of course, and pounces, connecting for some extra damage. The roll back after the pounce creates sufficient distance, and is quick enough to allow the Vanessa to f,f+K at the Jeffrey player just as he gets up. Unprepared for the attack, the Jeffrey eats the spinning kick. Remember what I said about the f,f+K pushing your opponent back on a block as well, since as you can see, it was executed from such a distance, that even if it was blocked, the opponent would have a hard time capitalizing on it properly. The Vanessa then backs up, dashes forward when no rising kick seems apparent, and instead of attempting another attack the moment the Jeffrey gets up (which he may now expect) Vanessa assumes the Muay Tai stance (which you will notice makes Vanessa take a step back, making for extra distance between her and Jeffrey again). The Jeffrey momentarily ducks upon getting, perhaps afraid of the common MT P, df+P+G or just the throw, or ever f+P+K, then advances and dip down for another crouch which gets stopped by the Vanessa's MT f+P. The Vanessa scores the mid hit against the still crouching Jeff and gets a momentary stagger, which is followed up with an attempted throw. The throw unfortunately whiffs, as the f+P took Jeffrey out of range. The Jeffrey once again pauses, perhaps having believed the throw attempt might succeed with allows Vanessa the time in which to do an evade+P+K+G and score another hit. The evade is due to the fact that after the whiffed throw, the Jeffrey may have tried to retaliate with a linear poke or jab move. This is where the Vanessa player makes his first mistake. He goes on the defensive by ducking, and then attempting and whiffing (missing) the d+P sabaki attack. It is possible that he was attempting a low punch instinctively, realizing just a moment late that he is still in MT stance, or he legitimately feared either a low attack or a low throw attempt from the Jeffrey. At any rate, the move missed and Jeffrey was able to Throw the Vanessa player (there are no stats for how many frames a whiffed move takes, but clearly, due to the execution time of 18 and the blocked disadvantage of -5 (which I use as a loose idea of what the whiff time could look like) there was plenty of time for a guaranteed throw opportunity. This Jeffrey player, thinking clearly, and realizing how close he is to the end of the ring uses the db+P+G throw to toss his opponent behind him, and in this case, right out of the ring (throwing out a f+K knee just to be safe as well). We can learn from Jeffries action in this scenario very directly. You see, Vanessa has almost the exact same throw (db+P+G). This means, that when you see yourself in the same position that Jeffrey character was, you will know have that option to consider. Round Two begins with the Vanessa player both dashing back, and switching into Muay Tai stance, both helping to create a distance from Jeffrey. She waits a moment, and then rushes forward as he does the same and quickly tries to land a P. This is blocked and followed by a 14 frame f+P (a jab, or low punch would need to be executed in 1 or 2 frames of the block to connect against the Vanessa at this point) which the Jeffrey also chooses to block. However, it takes only a slight delay of the follow-up P to catch Jeffrey attempting to throw out an attack, and he gets countered, and then, the Vanessa stops the combo short (instead of adding the canned K follow-up to the f+P,P) and throws the Jeffrey for an element of surprise. The throw is particularly effective here, because the Jeffrey knows that the follow-up K that he expected would have hit him if he tried an attack, throw, or crouch. So to be safe, he tried to block and regain some control, and got the df+P+G throw for his troubles. The throw is then followed by a df+K soccer kick for added damage. The Vanessa then backdashes out of range again, waits for her opponent to rise, and comes in with d+K,P,P. An attempt is made here to both alter the height and timing with which the Vanessa attacks a rising opponent, and an attempt to repeat the success of the earlier d+K,P,P. Unfortunately, the Jeff learned his lesson and stayed crouching for the combo (after getting the first hit in the shins) Because of this the Vanessa winds up taking the floating Knee, and a huge combo from Jeffrey (look at that life bar disintegrate). What follows next is a quick series of actions. Firstly Vanessa rolls quickly to the side to avoid a ground attack, or a ground throw for Jeffrey. Seeing him crouch, and then pop up to standing Vanessa attempts a low sweep to rise, while the Jeffrey has his mind set on Kneeing the Vanessa as it gets up. The Knee doesn't track her very well, and misses, but also jumps over the low sweep. The Vanessa seeing the Knee whiff goes for one of MTs best attacks on what seems like a defenceless Jeffrey. However, due to how early Jeff started the Knee, and how long the sweep took to fully execute, the f+P+K attempt was blocked. Vanessa is at -6 frames right now but doesn't have to worry, as the Jeffrey is once again too concerned about a quick second hit, and maintains a block for too long. He toys with the idea of blocking low, which allows the [g]d+P to connect and because Vanessa has no frame advantage after that hits normally (and it looks like a slow recovery) he once again tries to counter with his Knee and this time gets a Knee in return as Vanessa does the first three hits of the K,K,P,P combo. The second kick whiffs, and the punch is blocked (-3 frames). However, the Jeffrey kept blocking, as this player seems prone to do, waiting to see if the next hit will come out instead of committing to a counter right away. So, the Vanessa tries a throw, which is a good idea, but gets, unfortunately ducked, by the Jeffrey who is paying close attention. The Vanessa is also paying attention, and knows whets coming; Its clear at this point that a great deal of the Jeffries game consists of setting up the f+K Knee float. So the Vanessa Sidesteps and gets the df+P+G throw on the Jeffrey the moment he comes down from his whiffed attack. A soccer kick to the downed opponent finishes round 2. The opening of round 3 is very clever. The Jeffrey hasn't been the aggressor for the first hit of the round so far, so he feels its his time, and the Vanessa doesn't immediately back away, so its time for an attack. The Vanessa, anticipating a strike of this sort, or a throw watches carefully and uses the b,f+K,P sabaki attack to deflect the fist and score some damage. Next she uses a df+P, which is fast enough at this point to beat any attack, which it does. Followed by a d+P low punch which is blocked high (which it can be, because its height is special low). The Vanessa is at -4 frames, but as we have witnessed so far, the reaction time of a person isn't perfect, which is why the ws+P (13 frames, plus the 4 she's penalized = 17) easily beats what I can only assume is the rising knee again (17 frames), and it beats it quite easily, scoring a counter attack. On a successful ws+P counter attack your opponent is staggered significantly which allows several great follow-ups. Being a struggleable stagger nothing can be said to be 'guaranteed' but several options I have never seen, or had someone block in time yet, so I assume they are worthwhile. The choice this player went with is the very reasonable, and very damaging f+P,K,K db+K (when the f+P string hits a staggered opponent it floats them, so the rest will hit) The db+K doesn't hit though, as Jeffrey is too heavy for that to automatically work on him, and the Jeffrey player hops to his feet with P+K+G. At this point both players, when on their feet, crouch and block, waiting to assess the situation. The Vanessa starts up the /versus/images/commands/g.gifd+P in the hopes of either catching him still crouching, or getting a counter if he tries something after the execution of the punch. The Jeffrey grabs Vanessa out of the /versus/images/commands/g.gifd+P. Normally you cannot throw someone during the execution of a move, but this move is different. Perhaps because it has a built in sidestep, and sidesteps aren't allowed to avoid throws. At any rate, the Jeffrey did the right thing and scores some damage. The Vanessa rolls back, and Jeffrey follows close, so that I late-executed rising K hits him and gives Vanessa the chance to try the d+K,P,P string again. Jeffrey sidesteps the d+K and tries (surprise) the f+K, which once again fails to track the Vanessa who continues to move forward due to the string. Again the f+K recovers faster than Vanessa can throw from this position, and the Jeffrey ducks, tries the f+K knee once more, which is blocked, and gets thrown as he is coming down. This, for those paying attention, is a pattern. A very similar thing happened at the end of the last round, with the Vanessa sidestepping instead of blocking last time. During your matches look for situations like this, in which the opponent naturally reacts in a certain way. That repeat cost the Jeffrey player that round. The Jeffrey starts by rushing with a mid hit, linked into its string, and the Vanessa, although backing up and going into MT stance, is caught by the second hit. Jeff then backs up ever so slightly, putting the Vanessa off her timing (tried for a sidestep), and comes in with a big boot for a knockdown. Jeff follows closely after Vanes techroll and hits a quick mid elbow to stun, and successfully throws. This aggressiveness could have been used in the earlier rounds, since it has thrown this Vanessa off a little. A very quick roll to the left saves Vanessa from the stomp attack, and gives her just enough time to land the rising kick. The f+P+K elbow follows immediately after, and the Jeffrey, who wants to continue his aggressive surge, gets flopped for a float combo. f+P,P and the whiffed K follow while Jeff is in the air, and he techrolls. The Vanessa backs slightly and tries the risky, but flashy db+K+G. When looking back at this video, note how many times the Jeff rises from the ground, or techrolls and then ducks, at least momentarily. This habit may have been behind the choice to use this move which has some time to get through its execution while the opponent is techrolling, and hits mid, to punish someone ducking. It connects and floats the Jeffrey, and a f+P+K ends the float. The Jeffrey player techs again, but this time doesn't immediately crouch, so the Vanessa player, who I believe expected this, waited slightly till he was firmly on his feet and went for a Jab (P) to the df+P+G throw. Despite the jab being blocked, the opponents defensive nature kicked in again, and the throw connected (throws being only 8 frames, its difficult to see them coming properly as well). It tosses the Jeffrey out of the ring for the match win. Wow, that was very lengthy. For the other videos you can look through them yourself and find key points in which the Vanessa either scored a nice hit, or some big damage, and also the points in which the Vanessa got destroyed, and using the frame date, and other information on the move lists determine how and why it occurred like that. It can help you to capitalize on your own situations and avoid potential pitfalls. ======================================================================== Step Five - Look at a list of Combos ======================================================================== By this time, you know all the moves; you are beginning to develop ideas on how to flow moves together, and work towards set ups; and you have seen at least one good Vanessa player in action. Since you have gone into Trial Mode, you have been shown examples of Floats and Combos, and have hopefully gone about trying some on your own. There are two types of combos I will have on this list. Firstly, there are those float/crumple/flop etc moves which allow for guaranteed follow-ups. These are pure combos, in that nothing can stop them once the first hit connects. Secondly are the stagger combos, which, although some are incredibly successful, even at high level play, are not guaranteed if the opponent can struggle out of them fast enough. Defensive Style Float Combos. db+K+G Float Starter --------------------------------- - P,P,P,K / 66 damage / lightweight - P,P,P or P,P,K / 56 damage/ lightweight - f,f+P,P / 60 damage/ open stance/ lightweight - f+P,K / 61 damage // Heavy only - f+P,K,K / 76 damage / closed stance / Heavy only - df+K / 48 damage / light or mid weight / buffer and hold the df for the guard crush middle to initiate. - (wall) f+P,K,K / 73 damage// - (wall) P(g), df+P+K, df+K / 66 damage// - (wall) f,f+K, (wall), u+P / 75 damage// - (wall) f+P,K,K (wall), u+P / 89 damage// db+K+G MC float Starter ----------------------------------- - P,P,P,K / 81-83 damage / light or mid weight / may require a slight forward dash - P,P,P or P,P,K / 71-73 // may require a slight forward dash - f,f+P,P / 75 damage / open stance - (wall) f+P,K,K / 88 damage// - (wall) P(g),P(g), df+P+K, df+K / 83damage/ - (wall) f,f+K, (wall), u+P / 90 damage/ - (wall) f+P,K,K (wall), u+P / 104 damage/ In the case of these wall combos, you can begin them by slamming the opponent into the wall first with either b+P,df+K, or db+P+G if your back is too the wall. I any of these connect, and the opponent is within range of the wall, he will be knocked against it, and left open long enough for the db+K+G float starter. Examples: df+K (MC), (wall), db+K+G (wall), f+P,K,K (wall), u+P / 123 damage/ b+P (wall), db+K+G (wall), f+P,K,K (wall), u+P / 117 damage/ b+P (MC), (wall), db+K+G (wall), f+P,K,K (wall), u+P / 131 damage/ back to wall, db+P+G, (wall), db+K+G (wall), f+P,K,K (wall), u+P / 119 damage/ /versus/images/commands/g.gifu+P(MC) or /versus/images/commands/g.gifd+P(MC) Stomach Crumple ------------------------------------------------------------------- -df+K+G / 50 damage -evade+P+K+G / 55 damage - u+P / 55 damage - b+K / 56 damage - d+P,df+K / 57 damage/ To perform this, do the d+P a little late, so the enemy bashes hard off the ground, and roll the direction from down, into the df and tap kick. The df+K is not the soccer kick; its the guard crush middle. -d+P+K+G, df+K / 93 damage/ This is not guaranteed, because your enemy can escape the throw. The soccer kick is guaranteed afterwards though. -df+P+K+G, df+K/ 98 damage/ same as d+P+K+G, df+K above. b,b+K+G and b,B+[K+G] Stomach Crumple --------------------------------------------------------------- -evade+P+K+G / 49 - 63 damage/ first damage is without charging, second is maximum charge -b+K / 50 - 64 damage - f+P,df+K / 71 damage/ this can only be done after the move is charged and mostly in closed stance - d+P,df+K / 51-65 damage / see the note on the d+P,df+K follow-up in the /versus/images/commands/g.gifu+P section above. - d+P+K+G, df+K / 87-101 damage / see the note on this follow-up in the /versus/images/commands/g.gifu+P section above. - df+P+K+G, df+K / 92-106 damage/ see the note on this follow-up in the /versus/images/commands/g.gifu+P section above. When calculating the damage of these combos when they hit as a Major Counter, add 12 damage on the non charged version, and +19 damage on the fully charged version. Vanessa has a number of other stomach crumpling moves, as detailed in the Version C command list on virtuafighter.com, generally the above follow-ups will work for them all. Note: From any of Vanessa's stomach crumpling moves, and their follow-ups you can attempt to initiate a "Back stagger Combo". If your opponent falls in the HTFD - Head Towards, Face down position AND Techrolls upon hitting the ground, you can connect with certain moves (in this situation the df+K guard crush middle) and cause them to stumble forward (facing away from you) for another follow-up move. Assuming the opponent makes the mistake of techrolling in this instance, the rest of the combo is nearly guaranteed. Being a Stagger combo, the opponent has a chance to struggle away, and block, but its surprisingly solid. Here is the best Back stagger Combo I have found, followed by how to properly perform it. Stomach Crumple - d+P,df+K, (opponent tech rolls), df+K, f+P,K,K, db+K Begin with any of Vanessa's moves which cause a stomach crumple, and then using a slight delay, hit them with d+P, if done properly the opponent will bounce off the ground loudly, then roll your direction pad from down to the down-forward position and tap Kick. Its important to roll to the position, or else the game will register it as an attempted soccer kick. Also, tapping the button is important, as the guard crush middle is an attack that can be charged, and you need the fastest version to make contact. As the opponent touches the ground after that move tap forward, forward, to dash towards him. He should be in the middle of his techroll by now. Hit him with the df+K Guard Crush Middle kick at the mid-late part of his techroll (in this situation, do the f,f dash, and then go neutral for a moment, then df+K.. if you get the soccer kick you are either doing it too soon, or not cleanly enough). If timed right you will see the opponent stumble forward awkwardly which is the animation of the Back Stagger. Note that if your opponent doesn't techroll, you can do everything above just as it is written and score the hit with the soccer kick on him for being a smartass and not letting you back stagger him. Now dash towards the staggered opponent with f,f and then, to prevent the wrong move from coming out press b or tap g to and then perform the f+P,K,K move. If you were to dash forward and try that you would get the first hit of the f,f+P,P string instead. So the b or g-cancel is important. Lastly, before the opponent touches the ground, hit them with the db+K for added damage. This last hit will connect on everyone except for Heavy Weights if they time their techroll at this moment very very well. Try substituting the soccer kick in place of the db+K in these instances. The Damage for the moves performed after your opponents techroll is 83. So just add that to the damage before your opponent techs for the total. In the case of /versus/images/commands/g.gifu+P(MC), d+P, df+K the total damage of this combo would be 140! Two additional notes. If you manage the rare situation in which the f+P,K,K part of the above back stagger combo forces someone into a wall you can add on a f,f+P,P to boost the damage to 94. Also if the f,f+P,P forces the opponent into the wall again, you can follow it up with a pounce, for a total of 106 damage!!!. The Greatest damage I have been able to do with this combo is from this: b,B+[K+G](MC), f+P, df+K, (Techrolls), df+K, f+P,K,K, (wall) f,f+P,P (wall) u+P For a grand total of 196 damage!!! Im still looking for a way in which to fit in the 4 extra damage needed to make this a 100% damage attack. BT P+K head crumple starter ----------------------------------------------- - d+K / 33 damage, 42 on a counter hit - u+P / 44 damage, 53 on a counter hit -turn to face opponent by pressing in there direction, and then P,P,P or P,P,K/ 47 damage, 56 on counter hit. Note: You can initiate a BackStagger from this starter. b,f+K,P(MC) float starter --------------------------------------------- - f,f+P,P / 68 damage // lightweight - P,P,P or P,P,K / 64 damage // lightweight - f+P, df+K / 68 damage // lightweight - df+P+K, df+K / 70 damage // lightweight - df+P,P / 57 damage // - df+K / 60 damage // buffer and hold the df for the guard crush middle to initiate b,f+P+K(MC) float starter ------------------------------------------ - P (canned followup) / 59 damage // Lightweight - df+P,P / 63 damage / lightweight /Note: it may be possible to connect db+K afterwards on human opponents - d+P,D+K / 69 damage // lightweight ws+K(MC) float starter ---------------------------------------- - df+K soccer kick / 40 damage // - df+K / 48 damage / light or middle weight / buffer and hold df for guard crush middle - db+K / 43 damage STAGGER COMBOS ------------------------------------------- Opponent Crouching df+K crouch stagger ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - f+P,K,K, db+K / 83 damage // db+K may need to become soccer kick to connect on Heavyweights - P+K,P, f,f+P,P / 83 damage / open stance / lightweights - P+K,P, db+K / 70 damage // - P+K,P, df+P,P / 72 damage // Opponent Blocking K+G or fully charged b,B+[K+G] guard stagger --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - db+K+G to the float finisher of your choice / only works after the K+G - f+P,K,K, db+K / 60 damage // against Heavyweights the last kick is not guaranteed - P+K,P, df+P,P / 49 damage // - P+K,P, d+P, db+K / 51 damage // lightweight ws+P(MC) stumble --------------------------------------- - df+K,db+K / 63 damage// not guaranteed, but may aswell be, because few people will ever avoid the last hit - P+K,P, f,f+P / 87 damage / open stance / lightweight - P+K,P, d+P, ws+P / 79 damage / open stance only / light or middle weight - P+K,P, df+P,P / 76 damage // - f,f+P,P / 61 damage // Against heavy and mid this will only connect in open stance - f+K+G, df+K / 65 damage // - f+P,K,K, db+K / 87 damage // db+K may need to become soccer kick against Heavyweights - P+K,P (wall), f,f+P,P, (wall), u+P / 103-113 damage // ============================== Muay Tai Floats and combos f+P+K flop starter ------------------------------------------------- - f+P,P,K / 47 damage / last hit will whiff against heavy opponents if you are in closed stance - df+P,K, u+P / 73 damage / light and middle weights - df+P,K, df+K / 58 damage / light and middle weights - f+P+K, df+K / 43 damage / soccer kick wont connect against heavy - b,f+P,P,P,K / 42-44 / light and middle weights / against lightweights one of the hits wont connect Add 10 damage to each of the above if its a counter hit. df+P (MC) float starter -------------------------------------------------- - f+P+K, f,f+K,d+K / 69-73 damage // - P(G), d+P, u+P / 80 damage / against heavy, will only work without the first P(G) and only in open stance. damage becomes 72 - P(G), df+P,K, u+P / 93 damage / lightweight only - df+P,K, u+P / 89 damage / light only - df+P,K, df+K / 74 damage / light only - f+P,P,K / 61 damage // - b,f+P,P,P,K / 63 damage / light and middleweights - f,f+K,d+K, K / 72 damage / for Middle and Heavyweights this is open only, or else only the first two kicks will connect. damage becomes 56 in that instance. - P+K,P,K / 68 damage / lightweight only - K (canned), df+K / 61 damage // - K (canned), u+P / 73 damage // BT P+K head crumple starter ----------------------------------------------- - d+K / 33 damage, 42 on a counter hit - u+P / 44 damage, 53 on a counter hit - P+K / 38 damage, 47 on a counter hit /versus/images/commands/g.gifu+P or /versus/images/commands/g.gifd+P (MC) Stomach crumple ------------------------------------------------------- - d+P+K+G, df+K / 93 damage // - df+P+K+G, df+K / 98 damage // - f,f+K,d+K / 60 damage // - f+P,P,K / 64 damage / against light characters i found that i could only connect properly using /versus/images/commands/g.gifu+P(MC) b,b+K+G Stomach crumple ------------------------------------------------- - d+P+K+G, df+K / 87-101 damage // - df+P+K+G, df+K / 92-106 damage // - f,f+K, d+K / 54-68 damage // - f+P,P,K / 72-91 // Will only work if the b,b+K+G is fully charged. db+K+G float starter -------------------------------------------- - f+P+K, df+K / 59 damage // - (wall) b,f+K,K, u+P // 86 damage Add 15 damage on a counter hit. You can begin a wall combo using df+K (MC) to knock the opponent into the wall, then follow with db+K+G for a combo like this: df+K (MC) (wall), db+K+G (wall), df+P,K, u+P / 123 damage // f+K+G flop starter --------------------------------- - u+P / 50 damage // =============================================================== C -- Acknowledgements =============================================================== I would like to thank VFDC for both its movelists, links, and amazing Forum. Particularily Myke who does great work there. DevilRei has helped a great deal through our Vanessa discussions on IRC. I have used the Terminology and Legend section from Hyun's Emergency Lau FAQ, aswell as finding the information about reversing rising attacks from his Dodging Rising Attacks FAQ. All of his Faqs are worth checking out. I couldnt contact him by email, so before the FAQ becomes a finished copy ill need to track him down for proper permission for the terminology section. Deniz has been doing an amazing job with the Vanessa Movelist Errata, and i really appreciate it. Check out the errata in the site update section of the forums. The people who have posted helpful information also deserve credit. These include, but are not limited to Ghostdog, Alantan, buyaodawo81, sayow, and Summers. Lastly, id like to thank all of #vfhome for the great channel. Sometimes it even talks about virtuafighter! For info on how to reach the channel, check out the IRC section of VFDC.