Vanessa: Final Tuned

Vanessa
Text: Kurita

Give her new important strings between offensive and defensive a spin!
Switch moves, which attack while changing styles increase the strength of her strings. Also, her new moves and changes to her roundedness.

Strings that use her defensive switch moves

The first thing that you'll want to remmeber is her heavy hook to switch knee lift (D +++). Even though it's a mid mid string, on guard it cannot be countered. Also, if the first hit connects it natural combos, so it's decent damage. But, be careful because it's disadvantage on hit. Being in offensive after the move, you can respond with the cut in upper (O ) or an Evading Throw Escape technique.

Using it is hard, but the stopping low to the switch back blow (D ++) is a powerful move. First, check that the first hit connects. On CH, continue through to the second hit, and change to offensive during the advantage. On hit or gaurd, use the delay of the second hit to stuff the opponents retaliation. Also, for opponents that use , use the Cut In (D +) or for opponents who duck without attacking use a crouch throw, with these you have effective strings.

New move. The ways of using the Leopard Strike (D +)

This move can sabaki knees, side kicks and mid kicks. Which is to say, if used with the Parrying kick () she can deal with pretty much all moves, except for full circulars and double handed attacks. Furthermore, after hitting the opponent, you can carry on with the stopping low combo () or similar. What you have to be careful of is, there are four frames from where the move comes out where there is no sabaki frames. You have to yomi when to use it.

Changed moves. (Defensive)

The intrude hook (D while ) can be said to be an important defensive technique, and is move B1. B2 is stronger on the attacking front, being a fast mid hitting move. Because its strength is a completely different quality, deciding which is better in reality is difficult. If you want to research the fighting use of a new move, then B2 is good, whereas if you want to improve the real use of B1, go with that. However, because you can't buffer the new move, you should put some consideration into the negative effects this will have.

Offensive strings that use the switch moves

In offensive, the stopping toe, switch back blow (O ++) user-friendliness is great. If the first hit connects, it's guaranteed, and it makes for a advantaged situation. It's very difficult to check the hit before continuing, but because it used to be a mid mid string it will often just have both hits guarded and end at that. Also, even if the back blow is guarded, it gives +1 advantage, so there is a way to get initiative here. For opponents who just low crouch for the second hit, you can do the stopping toe second impact (O ) to stagger the opponent, or use a crouch throw.

Another switch move that you'd want to remember, the body body switch back blow (O ++). The old string was still mid high, so it can be hard to use, but it's a great counter for a crouching opponent who can't differntiate it from the stopping toe.

The way of using the new move Russian hook (O +)

A new offensive move, a mid move that allows for combos after beating the opponent down. It's a slow move, but it has good reach and tech-crouches during the move so it can avoid highs. The best way to use this is to back dash during advantage and then throw it out. It can dodge short ranged moves like of course, and will beat out Evading Throw Escapes and strings.

Changed moves (offensive)

It's hard to choose between A and B as they are both strong moves. but to make the choice easier, it's between whether you want offense or defence. In any case, it's hard to see the advantage in changing from the cut in upper compared with the short upper. It has a simple command into guaranteed combo, which is alluring, but in overall damage the cut in upper is somewhat ahead.

About the two types of switch moves

Switch moves were added to strings that existed in Evo. There are two types, the switch back blow and the switch knee lift, but either one is done using the ++ command. There are many instances where a string move was mid and is now high, or was high and is now mid, so you'll have to be very aware in using them.

Essentially, no matter which move you come from, each switch move is the same. However, the back blow will have different properties depending which stance it's used from. In defensive, it will be +4 and in offensive it will be +3 on hit. On guard it is +1 and CH +6 for either. The knee lift is the same on counter, but being a mid, it's -6 on guard and -2 on hit, a disadvantaged situation.

Another important thing on top of this, is the fact that you can delay switch moves. In particular the delay on the backblow is very broad, so use this to your advantage.

Footnotes

The execution for the standing punch in defensive has gone from 14 frames (elbow class) to 13 frames. This could be said to be the biggest change to defensive style. While being just a one frame change, it terms of actually application it's can be thought of as a large improvement. Not only in winning clashes at mid range or ability to retaliate, but an effect can also be seen in the ease of connecting combos.

A massive change is the ability to change style before the round starts. The command is as per normal ++. Because of this, you can start with the faster standing punch of offensive style. In EVO, you were essentially at a disadvantage from the start of the round, because you could only choose the slow moves from defensive. This change can be said to be "considerate."

Source: Arcadia 52
Translated by: noodalls

 

Originally posted in another thread.

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DanniBoySmith said:

i'm sure myke and noodalls will get around to doing an arcadia translation soon enough but in the meantime we could discuss a little vanessa.

my biggest gripe with her in evo was her lack of range and a solid whiff punisher in OS. that's hopefully been remedied in FT with the introduction of her new move ++. it hits high, is linear and from what i've seen from the movelist vids, seems to execute fast enough to act as a good whiff punisher (in the vid it hit at point blank range though so i have no idea of the extent of its range). oh and i think it also caused a flop which should allow for combo possibilities afterwards (the move itself does very little damage anyway). much needed addition imo.

she's gotten one new move in DS which is done via ++. from the stats and from what i can gleam it seems to be quite useless. execution is 30 frames, hits high, -10 on block, +2 on hit and knockdown on CH plus completely linear. also from teh vid it seems to have rather limited range as well. as far as long execution, big payoff moves go, atm i don't see how it'll replace ++ and +. of course it might be a sabaki or have some uses i don't know about because i doubt am2 would give a character such a blatantly useless move.

then there's the stance changing stuff. from what i can see the best new one seems to be DS +,++. the stats on this move are just awesome. for second hit (the knee) they're -4/+1/+6. the move's linear but i don't forsee that as a big issue. +1 on hit and +6 for CH is just wicked because you're in a position to setup anything from OS then. the +6 on CH seems to be a great setup for a mixup between her instant WS K and new ++ throw (at least thats what occured to me initially). the move could also have some wicked combo possibilities. i wonder if it'd work after DS ++?

like DS +, i hope this variation is also a combo on normal hit or its usefulness could be somewhat limited. same goes for other stance transition moves she's recieved like OS +,++.

i like her new sweep from OS which takes her into the tackle though i'm somewhat confused because the vid site (http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown/2306/new.htm) lists the followup to ger sweep as ++ into ++ (to go into the tackle). however according to 1/60th's site the followup is listed as +. typo? the new sweep certainly gives her more damage potential though according to 1/60th its now only semi circular /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif. fair tradeoff but it seems she doesn't have any (fast & reliable) full circulars in OS anymore.

her new wall throw looks great but will probably have very limited uses. she also seems to have gained a new df throw in OS which i just noticed at 1/60th.

i don't know about being made stronger but vanessa certainly seems to have been given the versatility that a character with a movelist of that size should have /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

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ice-9 said:

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my biggest gripe with her in evo was her lack of range and a solid whiff punisher in OS.

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+ and aren't bad I think.

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DanniBoySmith said:

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ice-9 said:
+ and aren't bad I think.

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they're pretty bad as whiff punishers imo. if you backdash after a blocked or connected d+p for instance, you're not going to be catching the opponents moves with +. the first kick's range isn't enough to keep you in range after the backdash. ++ has the range but because vanessa already has a ++ style move its very impractical to use it after a backdash (you have to go to neutral or cancel the backdash motion with another direction first). i've tried to use both moves several times but they're really not feasible as reliable whiff punishers in my experience.

the only reliable whiff punisher she had (of sorts) was the generic ++. it had pretty good range and i used to be able to catch my opponent with it many times after a backdash. i don't know the range of her new ++ though. if its as good as the old ++ then she's (hopefully) got two good punishers on her hands in OS now.

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ice-9 said:

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if you backdash after a blocked or connected d+p for instance, you're not going to be catching the opponents moves with

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Are you sure?? I think you can. The range on the OS sidekick is one of the best aspects of the move.

And how big of a hassle is + really?

Also, I have to say + is horrible for punishing whiffs. The damage is low, and Vanessa is at a disadvantage on hit.

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DanniBoySmith said:

DS ++: well guessed right that this was a sabaki. and its a good one too. should be very useful against characters like lion and sarah. btw does this sabaki also go through high attacks?? i'm only asking because maybe they didn't mention it due to it being such a standard feature in most sabaki's done from characters normal stances?


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I may be drawing a blank, but I don't know of any other characters who have sabakis against knee/sk/mk and can also go through high attacks? Given the fact that she already has a sabaki (and more!) to deal with high attacks then I would say the chances for this attack to do the same are next to zero. Wishful thinking maybe? /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

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KTallguy said:

I dunno, I think Vane in OS has more options now. For example, the OS dodge move is now her pounce. So you can dodge an attack and pounce... amazing stuff, and it's fast too.

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Just to avoid any confusion, the "pounce" being referred to is her Takedown and not her down attack.

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I think maybe you have to work hard in OS (not like you didn't have to before) but the results are good. I need to try that new move some more, but I keep forgetting she has it. What does it sabaki again?

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Which new move in OS? She has a new move in DS that sabakis knees, middle and side kicks, which was explained in the first post of this thread (the leopard strike).

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I thought that that + kick could link to the pounce but I guess I was wrong? I thought it was a standing version of the + ?

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Leg Slicer ~ Takedown: (OS) + (counter hit) +

 

The combo still works.

Our Vanessa player here doesn't use that evade attack (catch throw) that much.. it's about as effective as using it regularly I guess (i.e. not very?) but I suppose with the ability to evade first it may allow it to connect more often, especially against slow recovering moves.