Vanessa in general

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by akiralove, Sep 24, 2001.

  1. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
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    Just wanted to put together some info about Vanessa for anyone who's curious... there doesn't seem to be any talk about her around here, but she's actually pretty cool. I screwed around with her a good bit in Japan, to some good result as well. I'd recomend her to about anyone, expert or beginner, as she's versatile enough to be played mant different ways, and has a good assortment of easy, strong moves to rely on. She'll espescially be appealing to fans of modern mixed martial arts/no holds barred fighting.

    Vanessa's story:

    Kage won the 3rd tournament, beating the new dural. After he won, he took some of the parts from the new dural to try and cure his sick mother. He added the parts, at which point TsukiKage became completely Dural. I have no idea what this means for Kage and his family.

    Meanwhile, J6 is making a new type dural, but it isn't complete yet. They want to make an army of new Durals, I think. They need data from real fighters to complete the new Dural, so they have the 4th tournament, and set their sights on Sarah as the first victim.

    When Vanessa was 10, J6 killed her parents and took her to their secret base, where she was trained in martial arts for many years, and became strong. But due to her childhood tragedy, her heart was closed. After many years, she finally began to open her heart to one of her teachers, a man named Lewis. I'm guessing since she had no identity, she took his name later as her last name. But Lewis was killed during a mission for J6. Vanessa's heart closed again.

    I'm a little confused here, but eventually Vanessa got away from J6, and became what the mook calls an "SP", I'm not sure if it means Special Police, Secret Police or what, but she became a bodyguard for VIP's. Vanessa follows J6's plans, and discovers their new Dural scheme involving Sarah.

    She approaches the Bryant family, telling them that Sarah is in danger, and that if Sarah goes to the tournament, Vanessa can protect her. This is why Vanessa appears at VF4. You'll notice that in addition to Jacky's dodge attack "Barier Kick", in Muay Thai style Vanessa also shares Jacky/Sarah's down attack, which in her move list is named "Bryant's Knee Stomp".

    Vanessa's fighting style is "Vale Tudo" which is a style developed in Brasil in recent years by fighters like Marco Ruas. The name means no rules, or anything goes basically; as this style combines striking techniques with grappling to make a total fighting system. More specifically, Vanessa uses techniques borrowed from Brasilian Jiu Jutsu for grappling and defense, and Muay Thai for offense.


    When video footage of Vanessa first appeared, many people worried that she looked like Zack from DOA or Bruce/Bryan from Tekken, given her high/low mix-up strings like d+K,PP and f+P,KK that come out with relative speed. But actually Vanessa is very unique, and this is only part of the picture. Vanessa is at once very defensive, similar to Aoi, and very offensive, like Sarah or Jacky; and has several types of technique unique only to her in VF.

    First off, Vanessa is essentially 2 characters in one, reflecting the 2 styles I mentioned before. Her 2 styles are Defensive (her default style, more Jiu Jutsu based, but of course with strikes) and Muay Thai (strong elbow and knee attacks and combinations, less grappling). Some might think that her MT style is a stance like Sarah's Flamingo or one of Lei Fei's stances... but it isn't. This is evidenced by the fact that Vanessa has more moves than any other character in VF4, at 177 moves (not including the 28 rising attacks everyone has). Of these, just over 60 are Muay Thai style only. By contrast, her closest competitor is Shun, with 137, Pai with 134 and for reference, Akira has the least, with 82. In further contrast, while Lei Fei has 5 stances, he only has 118 attacks total; Sarah's Flamingo has 17 moves, and Kage's Hagakure Ryu has 17 as well. And, unlike those stances, when Vanessa gets knocked down, she'll stay in her current style until the player switches (P+K+G). I think it's possible to change before the round starts, but I'm not sure.

    In Defensive style is where most of Vanessa's unique stuff happens. First off, if Vanessa is standing (I THINK it works in a crouch as well, but I'm not positive) with no guard, she will automatically catch all high and middle punches, including elbows, and put the opponent into "Right/Left Hand Hold". This is where she locks the oppt's wrist at her waist, and holds them there, able to choose from 3 followups: kick, low kick, and throw. This hold is classified as one of the 9 kinds of struggle-able staggers in VF4 (you'll see the stick after she fully locks you in), and is unique to Vanessa. If you struggle enough before she attacks, you can get out unharmed, otherwise, you'll have to struggle between kicks, or get thrown. You'll have to choose between G, d+G, or P+G to escape the throw (with proper timing). If you don't struggle enough, she can keep kicking you 'til her heart's content; I'm not sure if guarding ends the hold, I don't think so. The good news is that if you're almost dead, these kicks can't kill you (version A for sure, didn't try at version B), you won't take damage. Not sure if the same is true for the throw. There is a slight delay after each kick before you can struggle again, so a fast Vanessa holdng you can be really tough to get out of.

    Imagine Vanessa does PPK, which is 2 high punches and a low kick, which you guard. You try to counter with elbow, she's got you... PK, Dash Elbow, Beat Knuckle, Knife Hand, she's got you as long as she doesn't do anything. Starting to sound nasty yet?

    That's just the beginning. In DS, she also has high and mid reversals. All high, mid punches and elbows, high and mid kicks. Like everyone else with high and mid reversals, she also benefits from the fact that high reversals can now be done with d/b+P+K as well, so that lets you option select between high and mid reversals with one command. And her reversals do good damage, they actually toned it down a little from version A to B.

    I should go to sleep for the moment, but I'll write more later. Still to come: "intrude" attacks, sleepers, hit throws, sabaki, and how about a SE, HCF, d/f,d/f, and 2 3/4 circle command throws? And all that's just DS. I don't even really know that much about MS.

    Spotlite
     
  2. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info on Vanessa. I think I will try to learn her and yes she does sound quite scary:)

    Under the surface of the most jaded cynic lies a dissappointed idealist- George Carlin
     
  3. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    I Knew It! Kage had to be the winner of VF3. Take that Akira! There is nothing more powerful than a man on a mission! Heh. Everyone wants my Sarah lol. Makes sence though, whether she remembers or not she has loads of data on all the fighters from all the previous tournaments in her head.

    I'll agree with you on Vanessa. She is one impressive character, she's really cute too.

    Tell me, where did you get this information and could you possibly get something on Sarah?

    Adio.
     
  4. Sudden_Death

    Sudden_Death Well-Known Member

    what the hell!? you mean vf4's story line is in the vf4 red book/mook!? and nobody has translate it!?
    i cant beleive this..

    thanks bryan,
    now could some of you people that know japanese and english translate this for us.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Brian, thanks for the awesome post! Seriously, this was great reading, and I can't wait for the rest of it. Vanessa sounds like a very, very interesting character.

    As for Kage being the winner...mwahahahahaa!!! Na-moooo!
     
  6. Madin

    Madin Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info. i've started playing vanessa has well, she is one cool character. she seems to have two throws from her auto reverse, maybe one for reversing left handed attacks and one for right. she has 1 throw were after locking the opponents arm she brings them to the ground and snaps their arm, and another were after locking the opponents arm she does a surprise exchange tpye throw. i'll try and check this out tommorrow, i'm probably completely wrong. oh well, only my second day of VF4. :)
     
  7. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    JTGC
    actually, you're exactly right!

    From the left hand hold, the throw is the knee to the back "Arrest Hold Knee" and from the right it's the arm breaker " Right Arm Breaker"

    Gotta go to work now...

    Piccolo... it says "story" on each character's page in the mook, and the overall story is on the first black page that says "character"

    Spotlite
     
  8. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    JTGC
    Just wanted to keep going on with some Vanessa info.

    Vanessa has a good assortment of throws, like I mentioned before. The majority of them are only available in DS, but MTS has a decent selection too.

    From Defensive Style:
    P+G "Canyon Dive", left and right side P+G "Take Down Throw" and "Head Divider", Back P+G "Rock Crush Throw"
    f+P+G (my personal favorite of her throw animations) "Elbow Rush"
    f,d+P+G "Hell's Gate" grabs your leg, flips you over, rolls forward onto you with a heel kick
    d/f, d/f+P+G, "Arm Crush Throw" an arm bar takedown
    d/b+P+G "Replace Throw" a quick SE, faster than Jeffry's, but with less push (not as quick as Akira's)
    HCF+P+G "Army Combination", a knee, chop, open hand to the face
    3/4 circle ending in forward+P+G (d,b,u,f+P+G or u,b,d,f+P+G) "Leg Breaker"
    3/4 circle ending in back+P+G "Heaven's Gate"
    f,f+P+G wall throw "Wall Kiss", which can be combo'd into f+P+G "Judgement Guilty" or b+P+G "Stomach Crusher"

    From MTS:
    P+G "Elbow Slash"
    one of her side throws changes from "Take Down Throw" to "Chinook (?) Strike"
    f+P+G "Triple Heavy Smash"
    d/f+P+G "Double Knee Strike"

    Both of her low throws work in either style:
    d+P+K+G "Rib Crush Body" multiple body blows
    d/f+P+K+G "Rib Crush Knee" triple knee strike to body from front sleeper

    Aside from not having low side/back throws, she's pretty much stacked in the throw department, espescially considering her holds, and her hit throws, most of which lead to her special front sleeper situation:

    From DS:
    f+K counter hit, f+P+G "Front Sleeper"
    d/f+K+G hit, f+P+G "Front Sleeper"
    f+P,d/f+K counter hit, f+P+G "Front Sleeper"
    f,f+K+G "Leg Cut Low" (dashing low kick) to f+P+G "Takedown" a kind of leg scissors takedown
    and this combo; first part is a catch throw, second a hit throw:
    f,f+P+K "Lightning Lancer" hit to P "Pass Guard Knuckle"

    She also has 2 more hit throws that lead to the Hold position, but I'll talk about those in the "intrude" section. The front sleeper position is where Vanessa holds you from the front, forearm locked under your chin and pulling up in a choke. This is the second of the unique struggle-able staggers that only Vanessa has, and while I've never been hit with it, it seems that it drains your life away until you escape.

    Forgot to mention earlier that she also has a low punch reversal or sorts, but it's not really a reversal, it's a kind of "Sabaki" (of which there are several types). Like Akira's "TsuTenHou", Wolf's "Low Punch Cut", and Sarah's "Fake" it induces a special kind of stagger that CANNOT be struggled from.
    From DS or MTS: b,d/f+P+K "Cut In"

    Lastly for tonight (3am here) I wanna cover her Sabaki attacks, or what I've been refering to as "intrude" attacks. These are moves Vanessa performs after tapping G, but it see,ed like they also worked by holding G and doing the input. That's how I used to get them at version A. What's special about these is that they're kind of small dodge attacks, and often seem to give special hit properties like Kuzure Down.

    From DS or MTS:
    G, u+P "Intrude Hook"
    G, d+P "Intercept Body Blow"

    I know for sure these give KD on counter, which allows free low throw (you can see this on the VF4 History discs, but Lei Fei escapes!) or attack, like the Step In Knee Combination (f,f+K+G, d+K, K in MTS).

    From DS only:
    G, u/f+P "Gliding Slicer"
    G, d/f+P "Gliding Back Nuckle"
    G, u/b+K "Gliding Middle" counter hit to f+P+G "Hold"
    G, d/b+K "Gliding Toe" counter hit to f+P+G "Hold"

    I'm not positive about the hit properties of the other moves.

    That's it for tonight.

    Spotlite
     
  9. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    Thanks once again for all the great info. You are making Vanessa sound really very bad-ass.

    Under the surface of the most jaded cynic lies a dissappointed idealist- George Carlin
     
  10. Madin

    Madin Well-Known Member

    thanks spotlite! your information is great. i'll carry on sharing my scrub info..... with vanessa's auto-reverse ( joystick neutral in defensive stance ) once you have them in the hold, you ( the vanessa player ) are allowed up to 3 attacks ( obviously using the throw has the 1st or 2nd attack will end your oppurtunity of maximum damage ). after the 3rd attack, even if you have opted for a strike attack and not a throw, the opponent crumbles to the ground, and their ordeal is over! ( minus the df+k attack you give them once they're down! ;) so its not a silly eternal guessing game. man, this game rocks!
     
  11. Madin

    Madin Well-Known Member

    sorry i don't want to confuse newbies. you ALWAYS have the opputunity to struggle out of the hold in general plus, you can try your luck at guessing wether vanessa will do a high kick ( press G ) a low kick ( press d+G ) or a throw ( press p+g ). if you guess wrong, obviously you get hit, if you guess right, well done. has of yet it is not known wether it is a vanessa players slow imputs or your great struggling that has priority ( ie. if me the player imputs an attack has fast as possible and you struggle has best you can, will you escape the hold before having to go through the paper scissors stone guessing game ).
     
  12. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Man o man. *adds this thread to his Favourites*

    I had totally forgotten about spotlite's excellent overview on Vanessa. I should have refreshed my memory on it before going out to play tonight. I could have done with a few more tricks up my sleeve! :)

    Anyway, in reply to kbcat, and other's who have asked for Vanessa info, I figured I'd revive this thread again. I'll try to add what I can over time as I play her more, and I suggest others who can, do the same.

    I spent all night playing Vanessa after a brief warm-up with Kage (have to start the night off on the right foot afterall!) :) I'm getting in the habit of story telling whenever I have info to report, so....

    As of a few days ago, our arcade acquired a second VF4 machine, another megalo 410. More and more people are playing VF4 now, and having a second machine is really beneficial in that people starting and aren't looking for challenges yet can have a machine for themselves, whilst all the hardcore players challenge on the other.

    This was my biggest challenge session so far with Vanessa. My opponents included Vansen's Sarah who's getting nastier with the FL stance by the day. He's pulling off the Kick Tornado throw (FL, u-hcf+P+G) much more consistently in battle, and I was on the receiving end of one of them tonight! :) My other opponents were Kim's Aoi, getting funky with stance-cancels and g-cancels, and Ken's Lion, which was pretty devastating after every k.d. hit (gave me dejavu of Chibita movies, eating all those hits OTG).

    Anyway, it was good to rack up battle experience with her against these characters. I'm still not familiar, nor have seen, most of her moves, so I primarily played her in the defensive/default stance (DS). Some observations:

    * P,df+P (MC) - low throw works like a charm. Thanks to kbcat for bringing this little piece up again, I had totally forgotten about it! Now I'm giddy at the thought of trying everything in spotlite's post!

    * d+KPP - if the d+K is a counter hit, the rest are guaranteed and knock down with a satisfying slam (at least that's how I think it is, if not then it must be the 2nd P that must counter hit for the last P to be guaranteed, and knockdown). Tag on an extra d+K to their head when they're on the ground. I found this canned combo to be a good conditioner, but the leading d+K isn't that fast to begin with. When you're being low pecked to death, forget about trying to squeeze it in.

    * f+PKKK - a nice MHM hitting move, extremely delay friendly and a nice conditioner for the f+Pdf+K which is MM level, and can be followed by f+P+G after a counter (or normal?) hit.

    * b,b+K+G - she shuffles back a few steps and crouches a bit before leaping forward into frontal mid-kick (For GLC: FAQ description is misleading, it's not a "jumping back kick", it's more of a "hop back then jump forward kick"). This attack can be charged (hold K, can't be guarded at max charge) or G-cancelled, and I must of (ab)used this move a lot tonight. Nice chunk of damage if it hits or nice ass-down stagger if blocked on full charge.

    I'll stop there and continue later after more playing. I'll bring the movelist with me next time (forgot it tonight) as well as printout of spotlite's stuff.

    Just some final words:

    I was the last "VFer" to leave the arcade, so I was just messing with the CPU a couple of times. This is where I got to try her Muay Thai stance properly, known as Attack Stance (boring!!!) in the FAQ :)

    I'm really digging this stance. She's so much more faster than she is in her regular/defensive stance. Her spinning elbow (f+P+K) is deadly if it hits. Decent followups I found so far were another spinning elbow or f+PKK. A tactic I found useful against the CPU which I think might carry over well against humans was to followup a dodge attack with the spinning elbow. You're pretty much at the right distance, and it's fast enough to nail any non-low attack (since it hits mid), and I pity-da-foo' who tries to counter throw after a blocked dodge attack! Eat my supinninguuu erubooo!

    Anyway, more later, especially on the MT stance!
     
  13. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
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    Myke saves my thread!

    glad people are interested in Vanessa, she's a really cool character. Also glad people and arcade owners are interested in VF4, 2 megalos??!!

    In Japan, I also basically stuck with DS, trying to learn it's ins and outs. The f+p,k,k is a good move, but you have to be careful about the last kick, since it has something of a delay, even at fastest timing. It's like 1,2..3. People can reverse it pretty easy, or counter with a throw, but to throw, seems like you need to buffer a dash, as the kick will push you way back.

    I also used the d+K,P,P a lot. I think you're right that if the first hit is counter, the rest are guaranteed (and it IS a satisfying hit animation, eh? ;)). The nice thing about both these strings is that they can be cancelled after the second hit, then throw, d+K+G or whatever.

    In version A, the d+K+G knocked down in defensive style, but I think I read it doesn't now, is that true?

    People I played were using b,b+K+G for Okizeme, stepping back to make rising attacks whiff. I remember it felt good to get up with no kick and reverse it... her dodge attack can also be reversed mid. You can mix up b,b+K+G, f,f+P+K, and f,f+K+G (all lunging attacks hitting mid, mid and low) to good effect I think, espescially since you can chain the last two into throws.

    It's interesting, people were playing here somewhat as a poke-based character in Tokyo after the first few weeks; it was really boring. I think she's got a lot of flair, and consider her more of a power character, actually. She does have tons of good pokes, though. All her different body-blowish moves can be confusing.

    Have you messed around with the hold G, P or K dodging moves? I also want to start reversing straight mid rising attacks with her. A copy of the perfect guide also sites the f+P+K (MS) as a key move. It says key times to use it are for counters (shows guarding Akira's low rising attack), mid range distance, and after oppt guards KKPP (MS).

    Here are some combos from the book:

    DS:

    Intrude Hook (hold G, u+P) counter hit makes KD, Low Throw

    Paring Combination (b,f+K, P) counter hit oppt. air, Ducking Body Smash (f,f+P,P)

    Left Hand Hold (catch oppt's left punch), Arrest Hold Knee (P+G), Lightning Combination (b,f+P+K,P) Cool! This move is a combo that hits the oppt as they recover from the throw!

    Muay Thai Style:

    closed stance (I think....)
    Lightning Elbow (f+P+K), Upper Heel Sword (d/f+P,K), Soccer Ball Kick (d/f+K, another Bryant family tie in)

    open stance
    Lightning Elbow, Elbow Storm (f+P,P,K)

    Later I'll type up her flow chart from the book.

    Spotlite
     
  14. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    Vanessa's d+K+G

    If my memory serves me correctly it doesn't knock down, but instead get's that weird "knock one leg out, put one hand to the ground" animation. I think it's a very strong move of hers.

    I haven't tried MS yet. Every time I enter it in combat I get my clock cleaned (no room of messing around with Robbie, and No4 back on the scene). Btu she is quickly becoming my favourite character.


    kbcat
     
  15. ghostdog

    ghostdog Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the thread, Spotlite.

    I just got the VF4 Perfect Guide (from ebay.com). I can't read Japanese, and this post is really helping me make some sense of this book (or mook). At least where Vanessa is concerned. She seems really interesting, and I can hardly wait to try her out.

    *sigh* Maybe I should move to Australia. Or Toronto...




    -<font color=white>Ghost</font color=white><font color=orange>DOG</font color=orange>
     
  16. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    arrghhhh I want that book!!!! sigh
     
  17. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    JTGC
    Big correction to make guys: as I now understand it, Vanessa CANNOT reverse elbows.

    Okay, looks like I was wrong before. Since I'm just now TRULY understanding the reversal system, it looks like Vanessa cannot reverse elbows. According to the black book, just high and middle punches with the "Hand Hold"s and same with her command reversals, but with those she can reverse mid and high kicks as well.

    Sorry for the confusion.

    Spotlite
     
  18. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Wow. Bad news for Vanessa players... good news for everyone else. That's a big hole in her reversal game...
    Ack, Akira still dominates with dashing elbows, ne? Can anyone test this out? (kbcat? Jason Cha?)

    --
    "VF is the resonance AND the wonder." GodEater
     
  19. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    Aye..many moons was I forced to use elbows to counter Vannessa after I blocked her moves...it's just tooo scary to think of the possibilities of having my p being inashi by her~!

    Akira DE has very good float or KD potential...

    Simple example..Akira DE...Mcs u into Kd ( hold tummy in pain) Akira does DJK or DLC or Akira special #3

    The way I see it..I found myself not focusing alot on his single palm..double palm or stuff...~

    Lotsa the hard hitting moves that leads DLC is how I use him~

    <font color=red>~~~ 'exam time=lotsa maggie me, very broke, no real food, no sleep, no sex!/versus/images/icons/mad.gif~~~'
     
  20. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Akira DE has very good float or KD potential...

    Simple example..Akira DE...Mcs u into Kd ( hold tummy in pain) Akira does DJK or DLC or Akira special #3


    Just to clear up some confusion around Akira's Dashing Elbow and Super Dashing Elbow.

    Akira's DE (f,f+P):

    normal hit = nothing special
    MC hit = float

    Akira's SDE (f,f,f+P):

    normal hit = float
    MC hit = kuzure down
     

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