Vanessa is 'too cheap'?

Bwahahahaha. I was complaining about Pai's 7K and defending her scoop long before the recent changes (hey, look, they nerfed the one I thought was unbalanced, and didn't really change the one I thought was fine). . . I "know" why they made individual changes, but I don't (and you don't) know enough about what MOTIVATES AM2's GLOBAL SENSE OF GAME DESIGN to make a claim like "characters are balanced assuming 100% execution." I'm providing actual evidence (Kage DPoD and Akira KNEE) of counterexamples where execution difficulty seems to have been taken into consideration; you've got nothing.

If you do have AM2 Telepathy ®, then tell me why the fuck they thought OM was a good idea, or basing which moves defy clash on ANIMATION was a good idea, or any of the other fucked up shit they did with VF5.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The divide between him and people complaining about Vanessa's 18i elbow is so wide that you can hardly consider them to be playing the same game >.> </div></div>

Ooh, big man. Yeah, insulting my ability to play VF works real well, especially when I'll be the first to admit I am not and never will be anywhere near Yosuke. As i recall, you beat me with aoi FFK spam the one time I played you. SFW? You still can't argue your way out of a wet paper bag on this one.

 

Hmm, nothing to do with the thread, but what's the problem with Offensive Moves? I kinda liked their addition for spacing and general movement reasons.

 

I use offensive move all the time(probably more than i should) but overall its a really awesome addition i think(didnt play previous vfs)

 

Yeah... Offensive Moves were a huge change from VF4, just watch some match videos, and try to compare how much of the stage floor the characters actually cover. The OM makes attacks from the side/back way, way more common than before, and from what I've seen, increases positioning strategy.

And what specific examples have you shown... what you claimed appears to be that *you* personally think DPoD and 1-frame knee are hard. I've had guys kill me with the 1-frame knee *during tournaments*... these moves do not go unused at high-level play (note: I've ultimately won the match against most of those people too, proving again that execution skill of single moves is not the deciding factor in who wins). And the DPoD is a shoryuken from ST... a ten-year old game that still has an extremely loyal following, any old 2D fighting fan that learns VF is going to be able to spam that attack whenever they want, and in practice, they usually do. Yeah, that's an anecdotal counterexample... but one vote from you, and one vote from me, makes this one a tie at best. I still bet match videos would lean in my favor.

And did I beat you with 66K spam?... that's funny, I only bother using that move against people who can't seem to manage to either evade or *stand still and block high* against a repeated 18f launcher that's highly punishable on block. Oh wait, now I see why you can't stand Vanessa's 18f elbow.

 

They're reliant on 3d collision detection (linear moves will hit them or miss them depending on how they happen to animate), rather than the strict sidesteps of VF4, which makes them pretty irrational IMHO. The reward different characters get for OM is rather out of whack as well.

Right, cause ST shoryukens require 3 just-frame hits like DPoD . . . oh wait. Ask Plague how much time he put into perfecting knee execution. DPoD does a shit-ton of damage for a 15 frame mid, and knee is remarkably safe for its speed and damage; if AM2 didn't consider execution in balancing those characters, they're even stupider than I thought.

You still havent used your AM2-o-vision to tell me what the hell they were thinking with clash, BTW. As for hard data, i'll get back to you after I've watched some tourney vids of characters I don't particularly care about.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You suck, blah blah blah, complain about defensive elbow spam, blah blah blah</div></div>

Like I said, insulting my ability to play VF doesnt really matter to me - I've never claimed to be anything other than a mediocre player who's interested more in game theory, and it's not like you seemed to be any great shakes either. And I have no problem taking beatings - if you see me on, join my session - nor do I have any particular problems with Aoi 66k spam (although I think the hit detection on that move, visually, looks really weird).

that being said,<span style='font-size: 14pt'>I HAVE NEVER COMPLAINED ABOUT BEING BEATEN WITH DS ELBOW SPAM</span>, nor has it ever happened to me. I saw people complaining about it, saw vanessa players going "wtf? just elbow her out of it", took half an hour to learn vanessa, hopped online, and beat some people using 66k, 3K backwalk, ds elbow spam, and her strings (and lost some matches too, like I said, the point isnt ooh vanessa invincible). Then I started calling bullshit on vanessa apologists who try to claim that her 1p or 66k is crappy, or that she isn't cheap. End of story.

 

I quit reading this thread at page 7 or so. A lot of this thread is full of whining and theory fighter wank. The people who contributed actual content saved it from the dustbin but this the kind of topic that would normally be delete on sight. Whining threads are fucking stupid and it speaks ill of not only the original poster but the whole site. Too many scrubs think they know something about the game and feel the need to speak out against the perceived lack of videogame justice they get when they deal with a game that uses a lot of concepts they apparently make very little effort to understand.

This is the sort of conversation top players would never have because they realize that a lot of the stuff you guys are talking about is better left unsaid -- fighters, as with most video games, reside in the realm of the pre-verbal. You're better off with just sharing the best possible tactics you can come up with instead of having these forced discussions about meta topics like balance and the motivations of Sega AM2 vis a vis their flagship product. I guarantee no one of consequence in this community really gives a fuck besides how stupid we all look when the scrubs come out of the woodwork for their mental masturbation session online instead of learning to throw escape or how to apply simple things like evades, hit and stance checking, and how to best use a particular move with their character.