Vanessa match-up thread(vs others)

Okay...I'm calling this a match-up thread so it has some use beyond my initial whining, but this is just an opportunity to cry about how much I hate fighting Sarah.

I swear she is my kryptonite. I don't mean to say I'm unbeatable, just that after having three different people play Sarah in the local crew and trying to fight her online I have made no progress in the way of figuring how to fight her. Personally she gives me the most trouble out of the entire cast and I haven't a clue as what to do against her.

I play mostly in offensive, but I can never seem to get the offensive in my favor to get some counter-hits and what not. So I switch to defensive, but of course that gets me nowhere. I can't even anticipate when she'll do a kick that isn't circular so I can sabaki it.

What do you all like to use against the blonde wench?

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

I tend to knock her out with my penile attack.
When that doesn't work I use her /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif into the Intruder step.
Or her /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. Of course those are in Offensive Stance.

I have a very similar problem to yours. Vanessa is my main and I deal with Sarah with her, but with Aoi, I get destroyed. I almost started screaming rape. I suck against Sarah.

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

ideas lol

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

If you have the freetime we can chat and train onlive, so you will have a better understanding of what your up against. Just let me know when your free to set up a session.

Peace^-^

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

If you can read opponent then you can beat him regardless what character or stance you use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

If you guard the entry move into Flamingo, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will rape Sarah of almost everything. And if it doesn't, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will.

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

I appreciate all the advice very much. I think my main issue at this point is that I immediately become afraid when I see I'm facing a Sarah player. This advice will help bring a bit more focus to my matches and I will try to keep those options firmly in my head.

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

Do those same moves beat what you think it should after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif ?

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

Yeah, but this is the Vanessa forum, and he stated he doesn't know what to do in DS. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

Basically what I'm saying is, Sarah's FL strikes after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif will lose to those moves, but after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif they won't.

Not only that though, the simple remedy for Sarah to combat those moves he mentioned, would be FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gifor/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif(/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif cancel or not).

The best response IMO for Vanessa to defeat flamingo is to simply just walk backwards and keep an eye out for catch throw(which isn't easy because it look like a kick).

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

Almost, as in Sarah FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and Vane /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif are of the same speed.. And Sarah should be in advantage after entering flamingo, even when her entry move was blocked (most of entries are advantage on block). /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will beat FL K after every blocked flamingostarter though, but she still has FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif as well in addition to FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. In neutral situation Vane /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will beat FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif as the upper does more damage.

FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif will also beat high moves. Note: I think Jeneric is right about /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, although Im not sure if FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif will beat Vane /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif..


Whenver you do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif against Flamingo though, you are risking eating guaranteed damage in form of FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif combo if Sarah player reads you..

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

Hey guys I had to edit my post because I realized that my explanation didn't sound right.

I meant to say that either one of those moves would handle strikes from flamingo, if Sarah did the switch kick entry, but but those same exact moves would get Vanessa stomach crumpled if Sarah uses backdash buffered switch kick instead(which Sarah should be using anyway).

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

You need to explain further Im afraid, are you saying that the range will make /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif whiff? Or...hmmm

Jeez. Switch kick has 4 active hit frames... If you hit at max range you can get a lot (uh...up to 7 frames?) of advantage on block I guess... That would make Vane options propably fail. Although in theory /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif would still interrupt FL sidekick but I think Vane would not have enough range..

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

Yes, the moves will whiff. So for instance where FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif would be beat out, it will stomach crumple instead.

that's why im saying it's a good option for Vanessa to just walk backwards.

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

Blast her with the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (the middle roundhouse kick) whilst she is in flamengo stance, personally i've never had problems against Sarah. Also with Vanessa, be warned used repitively it's cheap and can infuriate your opponent but:
- Change to 'Offensive Stance' /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (LT on 360)
- Run at your opponent
- Then pounce on him with the spear takedown /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (RB on 360)
- Whilst in the mounted position always punch twice, the crank the submission
- Whilst your opponent is on the floor, Switch back to 'defensive stance', then score with the twirling legdrop /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (It has a greater success rate than the stomp)
- When they get up, go for the afforementioned 'middle roundhouse kick'
- If they block repetitively, either use a throw (Vanessa has plenty of damaging throws) or the kick in which she yells 'take that' /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (RT on the 360), as it shatters the guard, or if a success takes plenty of damage.
Hope this helps

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

You can't possibly be serious. How is one supposed to succeed with all these moves?
When Sarah is in flamingo, in close to middle range (most probably got an advantage), there is NO way, that even an average player would let you do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif.

You change into offensive stance. Then you go for the takedown? Just like that? The opponent would have to be blind not to see that! Opponent does 2P or just ducks, and you are in for a lot of pain.
Let's say you succeded... now what? Do you know how hard it is to hit with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif-->/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif-->/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif when in mount? It's like letting Goh do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif from Tsukami /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif You might have meant to do any 2 punches and then cacel the takedown... well...OK.
Now, let's say you succeded... now what? Change into defensive stance and do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif? How are you supposed to have time to do it, before your opponent rolls out of there (or gets up)?
And NOW what? They get up, so you just go for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif? Well, it's not a bad move, but saying: "Go for that move or if they block, throw." is kinda...Duh.
And doing "take that" kick (which is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif ) is not as good as you think. If they dodge (and they WILL) you are nicely punished /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
Anyway, giving advice is good, when you know they are good. Sorry, but I think those aren't...
Practice some more...

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

Well if she ducks the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif,youre fucked, because she can get a gauranteed throw. If she gets staggered, hit her with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif quick, then do it again before she hits the ground, then ground kick. If the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is a hit, do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif quick for a gauranteed side throw. Nail sarah with at least one mid kick reversal. she loves Flailing midkicks. Basically most sarah players backdash and rely on quick kicks when you charge in. Dont play their game: KEEP the pressure on them and dont give them roomto breathe. If they try to keepplaying the backdash like a bitch strategy. DONT chase them.

Use more patience and make them come to YOU, andturn the tables on them. I especially love when I beat them within an inch of their life, and I only have slightly more life than them(like maybe 3X) and they backdash yet again like Im going to fall for it. I just let them stand there and LOSE by time up.



Backdashing is great and all, but some Sarah/Jacky players become one trick ponies from overdoing it.

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

more insight, lol

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

No offense, but this is possibly the worst list of advice I've ever seen.

 

Re: OMG...I hate Sarah...(Vanessa match-up thread)

It seems to me you just need to learn more about her. I say spend a little time playing with her (not to be competitive, just to see how she rolls).

Typically, you don't want to play spacing with Sarah despite the advantages Vanessa has because Sarah has some long reaching moves herself. Walk backwards when shes pressuring you and when you can, but don't create space as a rule.

I'm not sure if Vanessa does more damage than Sarah but she can definately dish out more damage for less risk than her.

The thing about Flamingo is, if you can guess an evade, you can really leave Sarah with her shit ruined. That in addition to the safer options people listed should be on your mind when she gets into flamingo. Also look up the frame data so your not clueless as to what gives adv/disadv on block.