Vanessa TOP TEN MOVES

Discussion in 'Vanessa' started by powerincarnate, Mar 26, 2007.

  1. powerincarnate

    powerincarnate Well-Known Member

    Only because I think everyone character should have some sort of top 10 moves list.

    Also, I've stalled a bit on my Vanessa play. And My friend has gotten much better with wolf. I could slow him down and beat the crap out of him with Akira but my favorite is Vanessa (who Also beat the crap out of him but this weekend was different).

    So without further ado, I'll leave it to someone who really know the character to do the list.
     
  2. Jeneric

    Jeneric Well-Known Member

    Well, I'll do two lists for Defensive Stance and Offensive Stance, since it'll get confusing by mixing both and she's almost two different characters in one anyway.

    So

    Defensive Stance

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Heavyweight speed at 12 frames (well, let's at least thank god it isn't elbow speed anymore), a staple move for all characters. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will beat out any attack for a combo, even if your /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif was blocked, this should be your main nitaku from /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif together with throws and low throws.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Don't really need to explain this one, do I?

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Now a whooping 9 frames in execution! Which means several things. First that you can interrupt any standing mid attack and throw at -4, making it a very effective nitaku killer and forcing your opponent to go outside the box. Also, Vanessa has something no other character in the game has, guaranteed punishment at +9. Granted, it's not that much damage, but you can build of it afterwards and it's a good option to bear in mind together with the more straight nitaku

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif The redesigned sleeper hold which is now unescapable gives Vanessa a really good and simple tool for beating out attacks with this at +3 or above.

    ws[+]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif a 13 frames mid, a rarity in VF. Gives stagger on counter hit, if your crouch dash mod skills are good you can use this as a substitute for the standard elbow which Vanessa doesn't have in Defensive Stance. Also a good wakeup attack since it's really fast from crouching status.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif A fully circular mid that gives knockdown even on normal hit and is safe on block. What is there not to like? Quite frankly I don't get how this move have survived for so many versions of VF without getting punishable on block, but hey, maybe I just should keep my mouth shut and enjoy the moment /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif This is truly an awesome move for all situations, but you'll mainly enjoy this as a tool for pressuring tech rollers.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Another truly wonderful move. Sabakis practically all lows and crouches during it's execution so it also avoids all highs. Yes, you read it right, it kills all highs and lows. As a little nice dessert it also auto blocks special mid attacks. One of Van's very, very best moves, and be sure to have it at the top of your head when fighting Shuns and Lions in particular.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Another sabaki, this one kills High Punch, Elbow, Kick, mid Punch and Elbow. On counter hit it also launches, due to it's slow execution it's actually quite nice for beating out backdash attacks in addition to the sabaki properties.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif[+]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif A high elbow at knee class exe speed which causes jaw collapse on all hits. Use this a punisher for large whiffs, +17 situations and failed evades.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif Standard mid kick at 16 frames, great range, can be charged to break guard or just mess with your opponent's timing


    Moving on to Offensive Stance

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif self explanatory, 1 frame faster then her DS version. Has a lot of fun options out of her Off.S jab now, mess around with it and see what you like.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif same

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Standard 14 frames elbow, causes stagger on crouchers. Her regular /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif string isn't that great, but you can use her stance switch move, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif[+]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif[+]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, it's a natural combo on all hits and gives advantage on hit, and even +1 on block. Be careful though since it's a high attack.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif The execution speed on this has been made faster since FT and is now a whooping 14 frames! And still semicircular! This is probably Van's best string, the options out of here are plenty and powerful. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:b:/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is a natural combo even on normal hit and on block it's +2 and on hit +6. If you press /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif[+]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif she will immediately spear her opponent into Takedown and will eat many standing attacks if you connected the string before it. The string is high, high, high though, so use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif as a mixup if your opponent starts ducking and fuzzying. Make sure to delay hits in the string for added mind pressure.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif 16 frame uppercut, will net you a combo on major counter. Also seems to have some evasive properties against high attacks.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif Special high kick, also a major counter launcher at 16 frames. The damage from this one is higher then from /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, but it's also a bit more high risk since the opponent can duck under it and counter you with a 0 frame throw. However, this shouldn't discourage you from using it. Since it's special high, it cant be reversed with mid reversal, but it will still beat out /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, something to bear in mind when playing against characters/players who frequently uses reversals or sabakis. Add in /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (with it's hit throw to takedown on major counter) and you have three attack weapons at 16 frames to mess with. Against Aoi YY you can also use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif as a MC tool, making for an even more well rounded attack setup.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif[+]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif 14 frames high elbow, good punisher, although the combos are a bit less damaging then in Evo. Even though this is the "rulebook" elbow class punisher Vanessa has, I'd still consider using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:b:/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif as a punisher in these situations from time to time as well.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif[+]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif A monster hook with great range and crouches under high attacks during it's execution. This is probably Vanessa's best option as a backdash attack in advantage, where it will beat out short range attacks like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and jabs, as well as being an effective delay launcher to beat out evades. It's punishable with jab on block though, so be careful.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif This knee is a new and great flowchart move in VF5. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif :u: / /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif are special high kick will put your opponent sideturned and can net you massive damage from a sidehit ( /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is great here since if the first hit is in the side the entire string is guaranteed). /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is jab counterable on block, but if the first his staggers the second hit is guaranteed and will net you a combo opportunity. Make sure to hit scan for the stagger if possible. If the opponent starts fuzzying the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif :u: / /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, start mixing in low throws and delays.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif[+]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif A jumping knee launcher that if executed with this command (and not /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif:) is 19 frames in execution. It will give you a combo on all hits and avoids all lows (however, it will clash with throws). I'm having this on here mainly because it's a good normal hit launcher, something Vanessa didn't have before. It's elbow class counterable on block though and sometimes the hit detection can be kinda flukey. Use it as a whiff punisher for big moves.



    ------------------------------------

    I'll just add this in addition to above moves

    Throws - Throws are just about equally important to all characters, but Vanessa has a really nice set of throws in Defensive Stance, mainly her /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif[+]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif which is definitely her best.

    Low Throws - Since nitaku has become more of an luxury in VF5 and situations where the opponent can fuzzy is more frequent, a natural side effect is that low throws have become a hell of a lot more useful and important then before. Vanessa's low throws in VF4 era were a special kind of catch throws that were a bit slower then standard low throws but had a hell of a lot of range. At first I was miffed they decided to make her low throws standardised in VF5, but quickly changed my mind when I saw how effective they are now as fuzzy killers.
     
  3. powerincarnate

    powerincarnate Well-Known Member

    As a Vanessa player, these are pretty close to my money moves. I never do the df P though in defensive stance as it is Way to weak for me. When your eating up 30, 40, 50% combos from Wolf, it's quite useless to sneak in that VERY short range jab.

    I haven't gotten to using the f K sleeper due to the short range of that knee. Also, for some reason, it seems slower than it's frame indicate.

    But Boy do I use the ws + P. I love the ff K, but slightly less than in VF4/evo.

    db P is litterally top 10 best move from anyone's arsenal. It is simply the duck p killer that so many people love to cheese.

    df P+G, what I call the Banan(inside carribean joke) is great. I always try to find new ways to catch my friend with it, just as he starts to figure out the old ways of him falling prey to it. (ie.. Evade and df P+G).

    For years I thought Vanessa had a bad df K, but I've changed my mine and it's one of the best one. the damage it gets on counters and it's chargeability is what I like best.

    Offensive stance, I'm still looking for a decent duck punch killer.

    I don't really like her H strings though as someone could just duck and kill you. It's just not worth it to try to sneak a P+K+G knee or whatever else you can combine with that.

    the Hard forward and K move, I just need to do more often, so far though, it isn't one of my money moves. I tend to use the ff P more often than the K variety due to one less frame of execution, 1 less frame disadvantage, all for a sacrifice of 1 less point of damage. But I guess you can counter with the Knee's ability to go straight into the U or D +P, or the P right afterwards, and then what ever mind games you can come up with with low or standard throws.

    b df P+K SO far is useless. It sucks as a Beatdown combo extender (ie.. it's no Akira b df P), it's slow, and it's punisheable with jabs and thus jab combos and so on.

    The Hawk String UF K or K+G is WAY worse than it seemed. I was jumping for joy when I saw the videos back since June but in practice it is a move where the hit frame is quite litterally at the very end of that move and that is where the problem lies. You are in the air for So long befome the attack frame is activated, and then you are in the air for so long after a block or Wiff of that move that it isn't worth it. Any jab, punch, kick or whatever will beat it and then you are left floating for days. If your opponent doesn't want to flow, he could then do what ever Big damage throw or whatever.

    NOT on the list were b b K+G, I use to love that move for It's ability to A. Not come out via G, or down, B. Sneakingly come out (ie.. change only for a bit), and C. when least expected, give you that stagger and you work from there. But it's too easily attacked early, mid or late way through the animation that I simply don't use it much anymore. Even as a false back dash it fails as when people wake up or use a low kick, you don't back up far enough that you get hit out of it.

    Another one not on the list was U or D hold G then P. This was the shit in VF 4/evo, but it's evasive properties have been greatly reduced and thus the move is much less useful.

    NOT on the list that I do use though is that K+G move from both offensive and defensive stance. And while Yeah you could duck it, and yeah it has a long animation. when you are pressuring someone, or when someone is near a ring out and will try to evade out of it, or simply when the game is on the line and you haven't done that move in a while, it comes in real handy. Plus, the person is side turned for a hell of a time giving you the side throw, combo option.

    I wish I could have my old neutral punch reverse when when you combine it with the P+G throw, it makes the person backturned and in prime position for the df P+G and all the comboes after that.

    Good discussion though. I use most of these moves from both offensive and defensive stance, I with the few that I don't use, could turn out to be super useful for me.
     
  4. catharsis

    catharsis Well-Known Member

    I recently picked up Vanessa as a second character to play semi-seriously (Jeff's grand, and all, but gets a wee bit monotonous after a while), displacing Sarah - who just doesn't seem to click with me any more - from that spot.

    I don't fully have a handle on OS yet, but I remember DS fairly well from ye olden days.

    My top moves:
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
    hcf /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
    270b /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

    Shocking, no?

    I'm pretty much convinced that's all Vanessa needs to be competitive. She has a lot of attacks that are a bit questionable, but the stuff that's good is VERY good.

    I've also been playing with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, which seems fairly handy as well (and completes your sabakis nicely). It's risky, but very, very rewarding.


    Offensive-wise, I'm still learning, but I'm liking the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif tackle on counter. That knee comes out pretty quickly, and seems fairly safe.

    The /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif strings are great pokes, and being able to tackle from them doesn't hurt.
     
  5. powerincarnate

    powerincarnate Well-Known Member

    What do you guys think of Vanessa's Stinger STrike move.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif with the option of going /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif which makes it turn from a gut punch to a down punch. I literally never use it. Any ideas of when would be a good time?? If it was unblockable, then I could find pressure time to use it. Without being unblockable, the Stagger needs to be longer and or vanessa needs to have a move similar to Wolf's punch which crumples on stagger hit.
     
  6. powerincarnate

    powerincarnate Well-Known Member

    Just wondering, is there any effective low punch killers out of offensive stance. (not including block and return, side step or crounch dash then block. more like a move that justs east low punch like defensive stance's defensive elbow.
     
  7. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Jeffry Content Mgr Vanessa Content Manager Taka

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    Vanessa Move Encyclopedia

    All are broken.
     
  8. Kay

    Kay Well-Known Member

    You have no idea how much I treasure these posts. I feel a little guilty that I can't contribute much, however, and just soak up all this info like a sponge.
     
  9. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Jeffry Content Mgr Vanessa Content Manager Taka

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    Her throw game and defensive techniques are too much.
     
  10. akiramike

    akiramike Well-Known Member

    Sebo: Appreciate all the Vanessa tips and observations you can offer.What do you think are Venessa's best options after a defensive move in OS? Thanks.
     
  11. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Jeffry Content Mgr Vanessa Content Manager Taka

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    lol, insight
     
  12. Chefboy_OB

    Chefboy_OB Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Truewiseman
    My god, awesome post. I picked up a lot of stuff. Hope to integrate to up my Vanessa game. Thanks for the info man!!!

    Anyone know any guaranteed options after Vanessa's low punch sabaki?
     
  13. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Jeffry Content Mgr Vanessa Content Manager Taka

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    nothing to see here
     
  14. Vortigar

    Vortigar Well-Known Member

    OS after evade:
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and throw are common as Sebo mentioned

    It's also a good moment to start up the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif string and try for the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif counter hit against low punchers or those who continue their string past you.
     
  15. akiramike

    akiramike Well-Known Member

    Does Vanessa's OS 2KPP combo on m/MC? I know the 3rd and 4th hits of her DS PPPK combos on MC. Are any of her strings guaranteed after on m/MC?
     
  16. Chefboy_OB

    Chefboy_OB Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Truewiseman
    Yes it does combo on m/MC, at least thats the answer I'm getting from the training mode...
     
  17. Vortigar

    Vortigar Well-Known Member

    Yep, 2kpp goes through on mc, I use it all the time.

    6kkpp goes through in its entirety on any (!!!) sidehit, a very nice option after side turning someone with 66k2/8k or k+g. this one's hard to hit check though, unless it mc's in which case the blue flash is your cue. Throw it out once in a while, if the opponent fails to tech the slam 8p is also guaranteed and you can take away half a life bar with one string.

    pkp and 3kpk also might be guaranteed on mc, I land both of them all the time, both also end with a safe special high and leave advantage on normal hit. I feel a little study on this matter coming on... I'll be back.
     
  18. Jeneric

    Jeneric Well-Known Member

    2KPP is guaranteed on MC only, not mC.

    The last hits of PKP and 3KPK are never guaranteed...unless maybe if the second hit in each string counter hits.
     
  19. Jeneric

    Jeneric Well-Known Member

    I disagree a little with the move rankings...

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif / /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif //forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif shouldn't be top really...both are quite risky, the former has flukey evasive properties and you risk being sidecrumbled in it's execution. The latter is both slow and high, can be ducked on reaction and punished...I even think it's possible for an opponent to whiff a throw and recover to guard this attack. They're still useable moves, I wouldn't say they're among her best though.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is one of her best moves in DS. It's her best nitaku options, use this instead of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif every time you have the advantage for it. It's also a great punisher for all the situations where /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif doesn't work. This move is also useable from backdash to punish both low punchers and evaders, requires precision in order to remain within the range to make the hitthrow connect though. Remember to never do the full multi throw from sleeper hold, just crack the neck and get your GUARANTEED (yup!) down attack /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif They've fixed this in Ver C, so savor it while it lasts.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is pretty good, it 16 frames, so not THAT slow, and it's a semicircular mid, which is a luxury. The string options are also quite nice, so this, in tandem with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is a very good poke in my opinion.

    I don't like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, you're better off just using your advantage to beat the low out or simply guarding it and punish...the damage is all right, yes, but too many cons to weigh out the pros...more like a funny attack to break out once in a while.

    I'm not too fond of the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif anymore either, they've increased the recovery too much. Now that she has good proper nitaku options you're better off using your advantage, this move should be used vary sparsely IMO.


    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif should be moved up one notch to decent. A low MC combo tool is always useful to have for discouraging excessive sabakis/reversals. You can also hitscan and do the stance switch move to end up with adv on block (if the opponent knows anything about Van he'll duck though /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif )

    Quite frankly, I think /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif should never be used...she doesn't really have any proper mixup from BT.

    Last a small note about Vanessa's neutral /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif: Be vary when you use this throw (not that anyone overuses it), if the opponent tech rolls it, Vanessa is at a disadvantage frames wise.

    EDIT: Oh, yeah. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif / /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is shit on a stick, there's nothing good about this move. Yes, you can sometimes avoid attacks with it, but the moves leaves you disadvantaged on both normal hit and counterhit.
     
  20. Vortigar

    Vortigar Well-Known Member

    Indeed, been checking all the hit properties of the strings, almost nothing goes through.

    Only two hitters like:
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif combo's on MC...

    Only interesting thing I found is another something on /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, if the second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif hits /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif goes through guaranteed with fastest timing, an MC is required if you want to hit check it (and thus delay a tad).
     

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