Vanessa Vs cast thread

I think this kind of thread is missing in Van section. Put here some tips advices questions or anything else which can help to beat a character.
For exemple, vs Lei when he goes in his punch reversal stance (idk the name) u can obtain a head crumple on nh with os which will gives u the death scythe combo. Sure since it s not a ch u ll get less dmg but it s safe and guaranteed.

 

Well, since you brought it up. I guess I'll throw my hat into the mix.

Lei Fei has the most sabakis in the game, although most of them sabaki all mids and highs, so you could hit him with lows, although he has a lot of crush moves for that. The tough part about fighting him is that on defence, you always have to make a decision on whether to respect him or not. If the Lei Fei knows you're afraid of him, or you're at least respecting him too much, he'll start stance dancing in your face. For example, if he does 6P, P+K+G, he's +4 on block, and he's left into his Kyo Shiki stance. Crouch guarding is recommended against this stance, as it's mostly highs and lows, his one mid attack is punishable, and if he does the sweep, he'll die if you block it, but it's a full circular so 1P won't work. Fuzzy guarding isn't recommended because of his low sweep and his guard break. The catch here is when the Lei Fei knows you're not going to do anything, that's when he'll switch to Hai Shiki, Bokutai or even just press G to go into neutral stance and throw you, and that's where he'll get you. What you need to do against him is play with a bit of Yomi and figure out when he's going to stance dance, then any old abare will work. Throw Abare is also recommended against him, if he G cancels his stance or goes into Dokuritsu Shiki stance, then your throw will catch him. You could catch him going to Hai Shiki as well, but your throw might whiff depending on the frames.

Also, be careful if he's in Hai Shiki or Bokutai, he can duck certain mids such Jean's 66P and Vanessa's 66K in OS and punish you accordingly. I'd recommend looking for moves that can consistently hit him out of these stances, it'll save you a headache, trust me.

I know it's more general stuff than Vanessa specific stuff, but it's all I can think of off the top of my head, sorry man

 

Ty @og23 to share it with all van players. I think that the approach vs a character depends more of the player you play against than the char himself. For exemple u got defensive players and offensive players so the way to play will be different no matter if they play with the same char.
But you did well to point out his move + on guard the kyo shiki stuff (i didn t know that it will be useful) and the rest proper to lei weaknesses. So props to you.

Here is the chars i know the most and the rest. Chars which i can drop advices is for Wolf, Jacky, Jeffry, Vanessa, Goh, Jean, Kage & Lion. This is the match up i know the most then Shun, Akira, Brad, Aoi, Lau, Taka, Sarah, Pai it s more or less and The match up i know the less: Eileen, Lei, El Blaze.
So feel free to ask anything about those chars.

Another thing i pointed out before, about Shun and the oushin stance, I ll drop it here because i think it s where it belongs. With OS 3K u get a back crumple and it is guaranteed for such a good damage. Here is the vid

 

Yo Maki, sorry to necro this shit, but do you or any of the other Vanessa players have any clue on how to fight Shun, he's one of my weaker matchups for sure

 

I fight a lot vs a french shun (kingheim) so i definitly can help. The most important thing is to deal with his drinks. Use as much as possible sober moves. Shun has a post round move which gives him 5 drinks, if he beats u with as last move his mid kick or his low he ll get 5 drinks for sure so watch out to not get hit by those moves when u re to lose. Use post sober combos! When is near to lose finish him with those moves: os 66k+g / 4k / 3kk (the last k must kill) then use kpp -> 9p or if u re have time 9p -> kpp -> 9p for 4dp.
Ds: 3k mainly then 3p+k 2p+k 4p
Use sober combos also. I made a vid about it i didn t finish this project but it ll help you.

About strategy, os van is the best vs him, mainly for sober s combos but not only, a lot of shun abuse of his lay down stance, 3k can gives you a back/side crumple vs that stance but only under some conditions. So use as much as possible...
A smart shun won t be agressive, he will use spacing coz shun has a lot of effective moves for mid ranges 9p will be helpfull.
When he s in his one leg stance, watch out for his high punch which puts u back turned, crouch for duck and punish...
One part of his strategy is also his throws. Use te or even be a lil abare vs him but not too much. Don t forget that his wall throw is 4p+g to te...
If u succed to win the first round without any drinks for him u ll win for 70% if u play carefully the rest of the match. The 1st round is the most important. I ll edit my post to puts u links u need and add some things if i remember coz i m writin from my phone...

 

I think that being aware of Vanessa's moves that consistently connect vs Shun's (or other low stance shenanigans) also helps.

AFAIC those are:

Lows (not special lows though)

DS WS
DS
DS
OS
OS (mentioned by Maki above)
OS IS or jump >

 

Kyo 2KK is not a full circular, only the second hit is half circular according to the VFDC movelist, which I think is true.
Kyo 6P, is not punishable on block and is a good option if 6P hits or from side block. It gives an OK combo on normal hit, that does probably twice or more damage than the 2KK so I would not count it out. It can also work on guard as people tend to anticipate guard break/low and crouch.

 

Hi, do you have Advices against enkou nyudou of Eileen...against zenkuhon i stay down guard to not taken PG or 2 k but is it ok? Do you have advices to stop Sarah when she is on flamengo....thanks...i hate play against lei fei( strings and sabakis)...i dont like play against also aoi,kage,pai

 

To the eileen question, I would say no that's not always okay. Her zenk cancel forces you to either make a guess that she's going to do a followup mid punch into a combo, the fast kick that is plus on block, or that throw (basic level anyway). So you need to mix up your choices between ducking, standing, and smacking her out of the air when she's flipping. The best choice is to take the throw as it's the least damage you could take, but even better is jabbing her out of the air. It's hard though because you have to react to the cancelation.

 

Thanks and about enkou nyudou punch + combo ? I miss my attack when she does that and i take damage. And generally i have problems to fight against very quick and offensive characters...Vanessa is slower than some characters.

 

Just for clarity, trying using the move annotation versus the attacks name.

As for dealing with Eileen's , it functions exactly like Vanessa's : if the opponent tries an attack (with poor reach) the animation of the attack with cause a whiff and then lead to a crumple. You best tool to deal with this attack is either use a longer ranged attack like Vanessa DS / or not attack. It is -13 on block which means you get a free and +4 afterwards (or and +5). If you can evade it, use DS or OS . Just watch out for which is designed to beat your evade.

For options... you will need to make a guess. However DS Vanessa has one of the best panic moves in the game in the form of . If your Eileen opponent is being predictable with their setups, a random will float her (follow up with for easy follow up, for distance, for wall slump, you could probably fit in a standing bound follow up in there too). Hell, is great against any character who like doing airborne attacks or think they can force a (guarded) /throw mix up.

Also when dealing with quick and very offensive based characters, you indeed need to play frame tight and react accordingly to what disadvantage you're at... when playing Offensive stance. Defensive stance you have more tools to shut down most tools.

will beat Punches and Elbows (mid or high) and gives great advantage on hit. I don't have that much experience in the Eileen vs Vanessa match-up in VF5FS, but based on how many times I can get Taka's to shut down a lot of Eileen's tools, Vanessa's will serve the same function.

will eat knees and kicks (mid or high) and give you a decent combo.

will eat all lows, duck all highs (just not EX. highs), and not take damage from EX. mids (still?). Just be careful, because though this move is a great way to pester the opponent, the risk to reward is almost always in the favor of the opponent, and if you're doing this attack at advantage and CH an opponent, you're better off using pretty much any other attack that gives you more advantage or a combo.

DS Vanessa also has a neutral punch inashi that puts the opponent into sideturned, but is really risky to use and only catches high attacks that don't cause knockdown. But if the Eileen opponent you play does a lot of spam or like to use to beat your evades, your inashi will catch that shit.

 

(I wasn't able to find a post in this subforum where this information was compiled so here we go,)

A list of moves and strings that have different properties vs Taka:

DS

The entire DS string combos on Counter Hit
DS does NOT slam Taka for a combo on NH, instead leaves him at -4 Yes, this means that if the first hit counterhits and combos into the second hit Taka will not be launched. If the second hit somehow lands as a CH, then the move WILL slam (but the combo damage is pitiful anyway)
DS does NOT float Taka on CH Instead it causes a different type of fall that does not allow Vanessa to connect anything more damaging than a (meaning the combo damage is laughable - just don't use this launcher against him).

OS

• Moves that knockdown other characters but don't know down Taka (so avoid using them)

OS Body Blow Knee (both and versions) does NOT knock down Taka on Normal Hit; instead he is left standing at +2
OS Stride Combination (both and versions) does NOT knock down Taka on Normal Hit either; instead he is left standing at +1
OS Knee Lift (all three versions: or or ) does NOT knock down Taka on Normal Hit; instead he is left standing at -1

• Strings that only combo vs Taka (use these ones more)

The entire OS string combos on Recovery Hit
The entire OS string combos on Normal Hit
The entire OS string combos on Normal Hit (but, as mentioned above, it will NOT knock down Taka)

• Moves that knockdown Taka differently than other characters (which OS can take advantage of to do additional damage to Taka )

OS Smash (all three versions: or or ) knockdowns guarantee in both stances / only in closed stance
OS blast back knockdown also guarantees in both stances
OS Stealth Spin Kick (both and versions) knockdowns guarantee in both stances (hard timing) / in closed stance / in open stance

If this information was already compiled somewhere else, if I have forgotten something/something is wrong, or if you can think of a way to better present this information, let me know

 

Afaik, stomach crumple performed st like ds hold g 8/2 p or 44k+g lead to another crumple (different animation) which u can follow up with a big bound (ds 2p+k)

 

Unfortunately I am not able to replicate in the dojo:

While it's true that Taka's animation is different, and DS does connect but doesn't bound; Taka is just slammed to the ground with no opportunity to add further damage

It does mean that connects for slightly less damage than , added it to the combo list in case someone finds an IP setup. Obviously, not worth the sacrifice for those situations where the full string would connect unless you manage to get a wall splat.