Version C Tier List

Eileen's cancels are not good at all against anyone competent. People will P out the flip on reaction, and anyone decent should be able to struggle out of her staggers.

Eileen's strength comes from counter hit 6P+K and shoulder basically. Which requires precision hit checking and reaction, and execution of quarter circle motions.

Her throw game is so weak compared to Jeff's. Comparing them by combo damage is just pointless. Especially when it's easily struggled.

 

Did I say that the Aoi only guesses counters? Fool.

Yes, but I said that Vanessa and Lei-Fei give advantages to crap players who want to abuse certain moves over and over to get cheap victories over average players. I didn't say these tactics would beat better players every time. You're ability to read amazes me. dumb ass.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People may try to disprove my point by talking about 'tiers' but I don't care what anybody says about 'tiers', in my mind they simply don't exist - it would be simplicity itself to produce an ultimate A.I. that made it seem like Brad (for example) was the best character in the game - tiers are only decided by who the good players learn. But on paper, these two characters are just plain better than everyone else from the outset.</div></div>

Riiiiight, that's exactly what you said.

 

Hahaha... I love it, Vf3beatsVf4: "On paper, these two characters are just plain better".

What exactly do you think a tier list is... that is pretty much the definition of how tiers are generated. Noone cares that a perfect AI could win every match it ever played against a human player, that's true in pretty much every game ever invented, even Chess these days. Tiers are just a representation of what characters have a slight natural advantage if they were both being played by absolutely perfect AIs.

You seem to forget that some things actually are guaranteed... it's possible to attack that Aoi with perfect reversals and simply guard cancel an attack after she starts the reversal, and counter hit while she's in recovery. Now with perfect timing, I believe there's only a single frame where it's possible to do that, but since we're talking about perfect AI players, it's fair game. It's those matchups, where guaranteed damage is determined on paper that generated our VF tier lists.

 

Lemme try one more time. I'm not saying that eileen does more damage than jeff across the board, or that she's unbalanced, or whatever. All I'm saying is that it's really silly ( character type, animation, etc ) for a tiny monkey chick to do more damage to jeff off of her crumples than jeff can do to jeff off of his own crumples. . .

 

Yes, I agree 100%. Sometimes I just watch in amazement at how much that little wench takes off. She should be the weakest character in the game, but her combo's are so quick and powerful.

Please nerf this bitch!

 

Play against her more and you'll see she's not overpowered. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Like Srider said above -- if you P her out of her Zenk (flip) set, she becomes limited really quickly and relies on tactics that western Eileens just aren't that good at yet (2_3P+K [CH], 236KKK for example). Easier said than done, I realize, but it's something to shoot for. Also, if you work on struggling, her 66P massive crumple combos become a thing of the past. The 214K cancellation kick that staggers on normal hit isn't that difficult to struggle out of with practice; her 46K sabaki is downright easy to struggle out of.

I think she's fairly balanced now, after her PP6P normal hit true combo was taken away in Ver. C. Maybe I'm biased, but that's my .02....

 

Now I know why there are so many Lei Fei players online.

 

I dunno about Eileen not being overpowered... she is still S tier despite the loss of PP6P natural.

But Eileen has high damage in exchange for light weight (takes damage more easily), and Jeff has high damage in exchange for slow speed (harder for him to land attacks). It's hard to say which penalty is more deserving of giving the characters high damage combos to balance.

But yeah, I'll agree with you this time, KoD.

 

On avg in most fighting games the fastest char can beat the slowest char. The evasiveness of the fast char makes it easier for them to beat on the slow strong guy most of the time, I'm sure there are a few that brake this mold.

 

problem is that tier list actually tells which character can put alot of damage on you without much hassle...and lei fei makes a lot damage compared to others, even his throws are deadly as well. speed and power i wouldnt say it's unfair but scrubs can use this to their advantage, it makes things easier. while like some board users said..in the end if your skilled in vf 5 to a high level or even elite class you can destroy every lei fei in the world with sarah or lion...it doesnt matter anymore, cause from technical aspect in vf 5 every character is unique and great. also if there is a character who has only a low punch a kick and a throw in his arsenal could be top player as well...jsut need someone who his extremly skilled with the arcade stick.

 

... or block on reaction due to it's really tell-tale animation. My only beef is: some punishers don't work for shit due to the recovery animation (DS Vanessa can only get /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif [or am I remembering it wrong?])

Try it guys. Go into dojo, do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif a hundred times. You'll see it (Hell, I see it better than /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif!).

Not like she needs it. lol

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

<span style='font-family: Impact'><span style='font-size: 26pt'>BIASED!!!!!!!</span></span>

Yeah, but the aim isn't realism, or to sort out stupid shit. Hell, the addition of Eileen and El Blaze are signs that more stupid shit is going to be incorporated in the future (triple bounce combos!!!).

Besides, the same argument can be said towards Pai and Aoi's striking game. I mean scoop... SCOOP (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif)! Thats what one would do when washing their face at the sink, but putting someone in the air? No.

Fuck, why does Kage's BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif knock down, but more aggressive-looking lows put you at disadvantage on normal hit?

etc.

 

Whoa whoa, you can struggle out of the 214K one?

Great news. I thought that follow up was guaranteed, so I had learned to guard it on reaction. The 46K sabaki though, yeah I struggle out of that one, but I had no idea all this time that you can struggle out of the 214K. I guess I should've looked in the dojo to see when the struggle stick turns red. Thanks man.

 

You are absolutely right. As an ex-SF and Tekken player, that holds true almost across the board for fighting games, and its complete bullshit. Realistically, when we examine boxing for example, the heavyweights would smack the taste outta the flyweights's mouths. Yet in the games, the big dudes almost always suck, exception being Zangief and Balrog in ST.

And when I picked up VF (woot, no more 1 frame startup wakeup super bullshit) along with my 360 a few days ago, I noticed the same thing albeit to a lesser degree because VF is as close to balanced as possible for a fighting game without being SF1 or Karate Champ.

I still think Jeff and Wolf need to be buffed a little more, but what do I know lol, Im still learning the basics

Just my 2c

KG

 

Relatively more Jeff and Wolf players win tournametns in Japan than Pai players.

 

Necro76's thoughts have been split off and moved here. Please post further responses to his thoughts on tiers in that thread.

 

I agree with these points and I have to say I quite dislike Eileen and El Blaze. I find them incredibly annoying under most aspects. Also, although I like Pai, I have to say that the floating capability of a move like 1P (and 2_6P, like sebo mentioned) are kinda "funny".

 

Does anybody else think its complete bullshit that the biggest damage combos/attacks are not by Wolf or Jeff.... but a fucking light-middleweight?

There is, its called WWE Smackdown vs Raw...and it sucks

 

Who is this "fucking light middleweight" you're talking about? If it's El Blaze you're referring too, then you've really missed the mark.

 

Lei-Fei is in the light-middleweight class in the Weight divisions according to http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/doku.php?id=vf5:system_part_2#weight_classes

IMO, the heavier fighters should have more damage potential