VF Evolution Akira Thread - Redone

Sorry about this. In an attempt to delete a spammers crap from my sections of the board i deleted the thread instead of his post. So i will have to post it all again here.

GaijinPunch

Akira players seem to be torn on whether he's different or not. The one most noticeable that I've stated before, is his (I think -- don't quote me) +. It winds up from the top, but finishes low. Also looks like it can lead into an elbow when it doesn't counter.

For the most part, there's the usual double-fisted power-housing going on with Akira. Doesn't look totally different, but definitely went through some tweaking.

Have not seen any items yet.

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Mr. Noisy

Hmm... actually posted this question on the other thread already but...
I've heard crouch dash's timing is different
Crouch dash buffered moves are a bit more difficult to do

Have you got any of these problems?

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GaijinPunch

I don't use Akira, so I can't say. I've not heard anything about CD for any character. ONe guy using it bigtime w/ Lion seemed to be doing just fine with it.

Did you hear it was only Akira, or everyone?

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BMF

I have a couple questions...well actually a lot of questions so bear with me...are people saying that Akira is stronger or weaker in evo? Does the SDE and LBF(or whatever it's called now) still crumble on MC? Did you notice any changes in damage points from his moves? Did he get any new moves aside from the knee-elbow, sgpm-elbow strings (I don't know what they are called...saw them in the evo video)? Perhaps a new low attack that's faster then the LBF and not as useless as the low kick? Does the knee in the knee-elbow combo float(i think i saw that it did in the video)? Finally, any changes in framestats for his moves?

Sorry for all the questions...anyway thanks a lot for all your info GaijinPunch...it's greatly appreciated!

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danny13

Actually, even if some of the things like frames or moves are changed, it doesn't make any difference now. It's still under testing so there's no point knowing and adapting to the changes now. I wouldn't bother to find out till the final version comes out.

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GaijinPunch

Well, they put the stuff there for a reason. But to an extent, you're right. The funny thing is though, they didn't ask anyone what they thought of the balance, so I doubt this stuff is open to scrutiny.

the main point of the test is not to see how the new moves work, but to see what everyone thinks of the new moves.

Now, before we go way off, I wanted to mention one other item of Akira's I saw. I couldn't make out what it was, but it looked sort of like a dumbell. Two round balls connected with a tube, hanging from his belt. Weird.

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GaijinPunch

I spent a good portion of my time today at High Tech Land Shibuya. Here's a few more Akira observations.

It looks like Akira now has two low striking moves. I don't use Akira, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say they modified the old one to look different, as well as added a new one. I think only one of them will duck him low enough to get away from high punches.

He's also got a really cool combo that looks like knee, then forearm AND headbut. The other thing i noticed, is that it looks like his rising palm is followed immediately by an elbow -- deadly.

Finally -- a new item. He had a pair of geta hanging from his belt. Geta are Japanese wooden sandals. Sounds like you're walking on wooden blocks, as that's pretty much waht they are.

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MisterWhite

Wow. Akira actually has 5 low attacks now ( LP, LK, LBF, + and the new one )? People will actually have to block low against him now ? I never thought I'd see the day

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danny13

Well LP, d+k+g are special low.

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spotlite

Here's some good info about Akira in the Evo test I found on a japanese Akira site:

well, looks like whining cunts can officially stop whining about Akira being too strong once Evo comes out

Double Palm:

looses to early P's and Elbows
shortened reach
slower execution

Single Palm:

shortened reach

SDE:

floats on counter, no KD. can be followed with DblPm, DLC etc
there seems to be a lot of discussion about counterablity, or lack of. Seems unknown

Knee:

no longer changes stance, motion change (no longer jumps- no going over/beating low attacks?)
increased recovery

SPOD:

you can tech roll/quick rise now to avoid down attack

d/f+P+K:

motion change, like sweeping the legs with hand
shortened range
on counter, DKJ whiffs (I assume still leg KD)

Stumbling Throw:

you can still Single Pm- Double Palm combo

b, f+P:

you can still follow with P- DblPm combo

Low Kick:

no longer cancel-able

b+P+K+G:

motion change

New Move, K+G (P):

as seen in trailer, standing knee with front leg followed by elbow drop
K+G seems to float on counter
as K+G, P combo, makes "good enough" damage in air combos
2nd hit slams to the ground
SInce both moves have long recovery, usefull only in air combos (like Fujin/DLC)
works OTB

New Move f+P (b):

as seen in trailer, replacement for elbow, step in body blow with canned back step option
middle punch

New Move b, d/f+P+K:

"slant" punch (I guess like d/f+P+K)

New Move D, f+P, f+P:

as seen in trailer, Single Palm- DE combo. DE switches stance like SDE

New Move P+K:

looks like fast QCB+P

New Move DLC cancel:

a little strange, but it says after the 2nd hit of DLC, cancel and shift into PIT's step behing and RBC.
I guess this is a DLC where for the bodycheck, Akira steps behind them first. I'm not sure if this is for ground/air or both. can you re-direct them in the air?

that's all for now. Akira got weak... sigh. I hope the new moves are usefull.

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GaijinPunch

Great info... especially to a whiny cunt like me, as Akira gets to be a bit of a piss-take after a while.

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New Move b, d/f+P+K:

"slant" punch (I guess like d/f+P+K)



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If this is what I'm thinking of, it does take while to wind up, and crumbles on counter, like df+P+K. Wolf & Aoi should be able to reverse it after some practice.

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ReCharredSigh

thanks for the info spotlite...looks like Akira's getting the VF4 rev B Kage treatment...but then, we kinda knew that it would come(looks like now we can safely say that all the "star" characters of VF have downgraded one time or another)...VF4 Akira seemed a bit broken at times, even with the downgrading from rev B to rev C

are the SgPm wall stagger combos and ShRm combos still doing the same damage though?

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Iron Monkey Fist

Why did they have to take away the low kick cancel!!?? That was just plain fun. @#%$! It wasn't that useful!!

Canned squat dash = lame.

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GaijinPunch

The low kick cancel is extremely useful if you know how to do it. Personally, I'm against the 'strong' characters having cancels, as they've got the edge in strength. Same goes for Lau. Seems odd that guys that can pull off 100pt combos after a simple float shouldn't have the ability to cancel everything, whereas I find it CRUCIAL to Aoi's game.

They need to give lion more Cancel's. The only one he has is for - how worthles.

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Iron Monkey Fist

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The low kick cancel is extremely useful if you know how to do it.


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No it's not. With Akira it comes into play, but I'd like to know how it can be extremely useful.

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GaijinPunch

Faking out your opponent. YOu've obviously not seen it done properly. All the Akira's (or Lau's, or anyone else w/ a cancel) that I play against use this stuff. It doesn't always mean they'll pull them ove off, as some people use them more than others.

The only one I find not so useful is Lion's, as it's only a cancel for , which is not an overly used move. A G-cancelleable d+K would be paradise.

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vf4akira

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Double Palm:

looses to early P's and Elbows
shortened reach
slower execution



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I believe the site also mentioned that DbPm is no longer throw counterable. At least the DbPm wasn't totally screwed over.

Low kick cancel being taken out was disappointing. I liked using it. If I understand the site correctly, one guy on the BBS mentioned that WS d+K is like Akira's VF3 kick while FC D+K is the usual VF4 version.


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New Move, K+G (P):

as seen in trailer, standing knee with front leg followed by elbow drop


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It seems that this move has similiar delay time to df+P+K+G,P according to the same guy I mentioned above.



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New Move DLC cancel:

a little strange, but it says after the 2nd hit of DLC, cancel and shift into PIT's step behing and RBC.
I guess this is a DLC where for the bodycheck, Akira steps behind them first. I'm not sure if this is for ground/air or both. can you re-direct them in the air?


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Another interesting bit from that BBS:
After the first two moves of DLC, you can hold up or down to move to the side of the opponent then push P+K for Tetsuzanko. This supposedly is a new rear attack that resembles bodycheck. But it isn't Chinho or Kouzanheki (PIT->RBC). It seems to me that you can do this anytime just like regular DLC. However, this is one I'll have to see in action to understand for sure.

I only checked the first page of that BBS, so there might be some more info in there

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ReCharredSigh

no, he's not going to DblPm or throw; he's going to DFS or SPoD

simple scenario; you do a DFS, the opponent blocks it, you do another one, he blocks it again, you backdash, opponent thinks you're going for another DFS and so tries to evade, so you low kick cancel, and do it again...boom.

see SummErs' post; he summed up the use of that move very well. it is flashy, but it's also very useful when mixed in properly.

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Feixaq

Er, the low kick cancel is *incredibly* useful for Akira and Lau, just because you can't make use of it effectively doesn't mean it's only for fun and to be flashy

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Iron Monkey Fist

Gee, this seems to have gotten everyones attention. Well, how about the fact that out of all the things in spotlite's list that I chose to complain about I picked the low kick cancel? What does that tell you? I have an appreciation for it's application in a fight. If you look at my avatar you may gather that I am an Akira player. So of course I'm going to complain when they take away one of my favorite moves. But as I run down the list of stuff that was changed I can agree that most of it was abusable and overpowering. The low kick cancel is not -imo- abusable or overpowering, and I am sorely going to miss it. That was my point. Is it that surprising that an Akira player would say: "OH COME ON!!! It wasn't that useful!!" ??

Thanks for the tips on how to use it guys. I can tell that you are all master Akira players who have much to share. So please share more wont you? Like what is DFS? That term is new to me. Is it b,F+PK? If that's it, let me tell you that you wont be doing more than one DFS in a row against competent opposition.

Have you guys heard of ECD? See if your going to do the low kick cancel late enough to really throw them off then your SPoD wont be coming out very fast, giving the TRer time to ECD at Akira's back and still block the SPoD. If you do the cancel early enough to try and mix in the b+FPK an aware opponent will have time to still dodge the way he wants to, making it the same guessing game as before you low kick cancelled. And yes, when you add DTE into that mix it can become a headache for your opponent if they still insist on TRing at that point. But, let's not forget that it is possible to DTECD when you're going for a df+PG throw escape.

I want someone to show me a clip from a high level Akira match where that move is wonted in an overpowering manner. Because, my point was: In light of all the changes taking place to Akira for VF4 Evo, the low kick cancel "wasn't that useful".

Some of you guys should get paid for reviewing posts. I swear this is why a lot of people just don't bother with VFDC. Does what I said really warrant 1 "you're wrong" and 3 "I agree" responses?

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CreeD

While I actually agree with the thrust of your point - low kick cancel isn't THAT big a deal .. .I think it's conceited to doggedly defend the point when it's very possible that you could be wrong.

Others on the board play top notch competition all day, and japanese players seem to love the low kick cancel. Mukky does it against everyone he plays in the daioh_3-5ero3m.WMV clip and he's NOT someone who plays for flash and fucking around. His idea of fucking around is to try to fool someone once early in the match with ST, sgpm, cd-throw. And from that point onward he just takes the guaranteed dbpm. In float combos he tries to eke out every ounce of damage, and to do that he keeps aware of stance so he can make use of stuff like shoulder ram --> sgpm -->DJK. You'd better believe that an akira player will actually low kick cancel -->shrm specifically to land that combo.

Anyway, my goal wasn't to point out the true magical hidden powers of low kick cancel, it was to point out that your rant is sarcastic defensive whining and snottiness. "I can tell that you are all master Akira players who have much to share" ... has it occurred to you that they may well be better than the ultimate champion of Mt. Dora, Florida? You don't really deserve the benefit of what they have to share, but you get it all the same, and for this they deserve better than childishness.

As for 'show me where that move... is wonted in an overpowering manner' ... "wonted"?! .. ..anyway, this is a classic trick of the desperate debater: reword the other guy's point *slightly* so you're sure to be right. Nobody said it's 'overpowering', they said it was very useful.

Bleah, I don't wanna put anyone to sleep. This point about the low kick is probably comparable to trying to convince a newbie that stance is important in VF2. Until you actually play on a machine with someone who knows how to use these small things to win a match, you won't really learn even if you see the point made 1000 times on paper or even in movie clips.

PS: I really hope all that EDTECD crap was more sarcasm. ..

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BMF

Does anyone know if SDE still floats on normal hit? Spotlite said that it floats on MC, but he didn't mention (or doesn't know yet) what happens on normal hit.

If it only floats on MC then there really is no point in using it anymore since the DE accomplishes the same thing with better frame stats (assuming frame stats don't change in EVO).

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CreeD

It probably floats on normal hit, like always, ... also it's got a little more range. It switches stance. Otherwise the DE is a hair safer. There may be some difference in float height.

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akiraattack

today I was at shibuya techland and I saw some new akira moves in Vf evo. most of them are already talked about. but so far. I have not here anyone about the footsweep of Akira. it looks almost the same as the one Lei Fei has. very nice to confuse your opponent and then after hit it with a nice doublepalm or something else.

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CreeD

a footsweep, really?
Akira doesn't have many fancy kicks, and a sweep using the leg seems like the wrong kind of move for his art.

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Bu_Jasoom

I hope that his rising kicks stay linear though... Akira doesn't need anymore power IMO, unless all other characters are powered up to a level where he can't keep up...

This new sweep could mean less evading against Akira. After all, all his dodgable attacks are dodged to his back (Except for SPoD), so it wasn't hard to evade him. Now one should put evades into consideration for a possible sweep...

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BMF

Yeah, it is really hard to believe that akira gets a sweep. I really feel that he shouldn't get one (although i'm happy that he does). Now he can condition opponents into blocking low, making him really dangerous.

I was wondering if anyone can confirm this new move and maybe give the commands for it.

Thanks to everyone for all the EVO akira info, especially spotlite!

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GaijinPunch

The most noticeable move of Akira' s I've seen is the one where he takes a couple of steps back, then rams the opponent w/ the elbow. He looks like a child immitatinga bull or something. Interesting looking.

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Myke

Seems to be some confusion about this new low kick. It was reported earlier that Akira has his old (VF2? VF3?) low kick from the standing position (d+K) which is what akiraattack might be seeing?

Akira's version C, and older, low kick is now done from a crouch position only (D+K), and cannot be G-cancelled.

Don't forget he has another low kick which is the first part of the AS3 (d+KG) but I'm sure he would have recognised that.

In general, when something is referred to as a sweep, it is implied to be a circular attack (half or full).

 

vf4akira

More observations from jpn site about akira... this complements/replaces what spotlite said earlier as it's from the same site.

Mouko (single palm)- possible throw counterable (not sure I understand it correctly)

yakuho (SDE fff+P) - possible longer execution time

chouzan (DFS bfP+K) - longer recovery(?)

knee (K+G release G ) - distance it travels increased... I'm still confused about the "knee". First of all akira doesn't leave the ground and he doesn't change stance. For some reason I just can't picture what this move looks like now.

SPoD - Still possible to attack even if opponent tech rolls. Not sure what this implies. I assume you can get close to put on the pressure if the opponent techs. "good damage"

Tsuutenhou (bP+K+G sabaki) - seems that you'll hit with the canned single palm follow up on the LP sabaki more likely than in Ver C. however, it's still possible to miss.

Kaiko & Gekihohonko (both guard breaker moves) - commands may have changed to fP+K+G and dP+K+G respectively

K+G - this is that new knee looking like move from the Evo videos. Apparently even on counter hit, you can't P , so it's very limited (useless) as a float combo starter.

K+G, P - the canned shoulder drop(?) follow up from the above move. It's possible to delay the P for a "good" amount of time.

new; d+P+K+G with opponent's(?) back turned. Don't know what kind of move it is.

new; db+P+K+G this is the step back move that GP mentioned. Akira steps back; then half step forward(?). Possible to throw while moving it seems.

You can follow up that move with P for an elbow or P+K for a shoulder.

That's about it. There's a couple other changes I didn't mention because I wasn't sure what the change meant exactly. Anyway, all this was translated (most likely poorly) by me so don't be upset if anything is wrong.

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Bu_Jasoom

In reply to:
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knee (K+G release G ) - distance it travels increased... I'm still confused about the "knee". First of all akira doesn't leave the ground and he doesn't change stance. For some reason I just can't picture what this move looks like now.



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Maybe it's indeed like Jackey's new knee shown in the EVO video. Good to hear that it's enhanced. I would love for it to stay a decent okizeme tool in evo too.


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Tsuutenhou (b+P+K+G sabaki) - seems that you'll hit with the canned single palm follow up on the LP sabaki more likely than in Ver C. however, it's still possible to miss.



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Wasn't it stance dependent on Version C? Meaning the canned palm will hit in one stance and miss in the other? So it's not stance dependent now? Maybe it's also about spacing and possibly delaying the canned plam a fraction of a second (Although I don't think that was possible in Ver C).

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spotlite

nice job, David.

just to follow up with a few more things from the site that David didn't mention:

yoho- animation change, floats higher

yakkuho (SDE)- looks like they changed it back to KD on counter in the new test version

mahoshouko (shoulder)- floats lower

soukahousui (d/f+P+K)- again, looks like they've changed it back to ver. C performance. Counter hit- DJK confirmed.

new type DLC: d/f+K+G, f+P, u or d+P+K. After 1st 2 hits, steps to the back like PIT RBC then bodycheck.

Seems like people can't find the moves P+K and b, d/f+P+K fom the first test version. They're wondering if they've been cut, or the commands have just been changed.

like David, I'll appologize now for any mis-translation (but I think we've translated what's there pretty much in full).

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Plague

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new type DLC: d/f+K+G, f+P, u or d+P+K. After 1st 2 hits, steps to the back like PIT RBC then bodycheck.


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Is there indication that the original DLC has been removed... or are these choices for the third hit of the DLC (with BC keeping the standard input)? Also, I'm guessing that the u/d p+k can be blocked like the RBC from the PIT. It would also be interesting to see the DLC PIT RBC followed by SDE-> m-dblpm... sounds fairly damaging.

Good to know that MC LBF can once again be followed by DJK.

Thanks for the research, Spotlite.

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GaijinPunch

I would *ASSUME* that he can be thrown while pulling it off, as both Lion's & Shun's db+P+K+G is a throwable state as well

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My apologies, but the second page of this thread could not be saved. Im sorry i made this mistake.

 

Hey Gaijinpunch, does dblpm still combo after the SDE floats ? Plus, do you have any idea of how fast dblpm executes now? I hear it's been slowed down. Is it still throw counterable ? I'm assuming that since ST, sgpm, dblpm still combos then it hasn't been slowed down all that much. It makes sense if it has been slowed down though....seems unfair to have a mid move that executes in 12 frames.

 

Courtesy of LeoT:




Original Link:

http://pub47.ezboard.com/fhongkongvirtuafighter4boardfrm1.showMessage?topicID=1395.topic

 

I spent some time playing Akira today... Since I don't want to be repetitive, I will try not to talk about the stuff that has already been mentioned here. If I do so, I apologize in advance.

* Combos! Since I am not used to the american style sticks, half of what I was planning to try didn't work, especially m-dlpms in juggles. But here is one combo I took note of:

- (Counter) >> >> + . Pretty easy, and gets around 80 points! Actually, it seems that a counter with the Yoho floats high enough (And gets very good damage) for more damaging combos, but I couldn't pull-off stronger ones because of the stick.

* Moves:

- Knee: Like everybody knows, Akira won't leave the ground when he does that. I had a hard time trying to stuff a low rising attack with the knee, but a CPU Akira actually did it on me, producing a counter hit and floating even higher. Also, the Knee scrapes a little more ground now, and seems to be good to interrupt attacks from mid to far range, which would also give a lovely counter /versus/images/icons/smile.gif.

- DLC: I think we've also seen that in one of the clips. For the new variant, Akira does not go behind the opponent, he instead exposes his back (Going to BT position) where he has all of his BT attacks from before plus the + shoulder. Since he backturns really fast, you may be able to keep your opponent guessing on whether you will spin with a regular , a low , a low , or the + shoulder.

- ++. I should say this is one of my favorite. Akira back-steps slowly, and you have 3 options after that (Or maybe I should say 4): Not doing anything will make him do a tiny step forward after back-stepping; Pressing will make him elbow (Which looks a little different than his other elbows. I think he is not crouching as much as in the regular ones); pressing will make him do his new low kick, and pressing + will make him..... :: Drum Rolls :: Sabaki!! It only hits the possible attacks it can sabaki, and will not hit if the opponent just stand still. If you have seen Goh's + sabaki, this is similar; doesn't hit unless a sabaki-able attack is put against it. Some may say I should call them Inashis, but I am almost sure the sound was that of a sabaki. And they look like attacks rather than reversals if you know what I mean. I was surprised when I saw those since I don't think this kind of Sabaki was there in 4. Maybe I am misunderstanding things?

The followup to the ++ floats on Counter, and I tried to m-dlpm after it with no luck. But I think it's HIGHLY likely that a m-dlpm is possible after that; since I couldn't modify correctly sometimes because of the stick like I said.

The followup is good to catch a running-in opponent.

The + Sabakied several kicks when I tried it. Not sure of their levels though; could be mid, high, or both. I will have to test this with somebody later. The Evo article scan shows a addition to the sabaki, but I couldn't get it since I wasn't expecting a Sabaki to begin with. I will have to try that later too.

- . The first thing you will think of when you try out this move is that it's a little trickier to land that it seems to be. The 2nd should be entered exactly after the sound of the first hit goes off, to produce the nice overall 2 hitter. It took me sometime to get it because I was pressing the too early at first, but now I seem to get it more often. Nice move, and you will be tempted to try it more often I belive.

- . Also a nice move, but I haven't found useful uses for it yet. I was thinking of doing it from mid range on a rising attacker to see if I can make him wiff while I back away, but the ++ seems to be better. A natural thing any one would try is to , then ++ for some reason, I think I even saw that in one of the clips if I am not mistaken.

- SDE. It seemed harder for me to connect the DJK after that, even when I anticipated it. Is it stance dependant now? Or maybe I wasn't fast enough?

* Misc. : I like the new stuff so far, and I haven't felt the reduced power of the dlpm yet. I was able to land it after the ST throw >> sgpm. I also did a launcher >> >> >> m-dlpm once, so it should be okay. The weakness should be more apparant with more play time I assume. And like I said the ++ is fun, but some of it's followups can be evaded, so becareful with it.


On an unrelated note, I noticed something that I thought is a result of the fact that crumbles are TR/QRable now. It seemed to me that you can hit downed opponents with more attacks now, and after some time with them on the ground, if they fail to TR/QR some attacks. I don't know if this is clear or not, maybe Gaijinpunch can comment on that. But I remember hitting a downed opponent with a.... m-shlrm?? Don't take my word for it though, I am not sure about this yet.

Also, all of this could have changed with the final version, and I think the one I played is the final beta version or something.

I played some Goh and Shun as well, I will see if I have anything to add later.

 

nice info... I was looking for a player in NC because I wanted to drive down and try evo, but didn't think any regulars here were there.

I'd be cool to meet up.

PS: shrm has always hit grounded enemies, they're usually just too busy TRing for it to work.

 

Hey, let me know what weekend looks good...I think I should be able to swing it...