VF shinanigans (questions about random things)

Something that's been bugging me for a while that I don't realize is all the weird things about certain moves that I don't realize till I play the character and get own3d by them from it.

For example Akira's catch throw: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
> if he rams you from the front you need to press /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif to block it
>if he rams you from the foreground you need to press /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif to block it
>if he rams you from the background you need to press :u:/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif to block it


Now I KNOW, that you know this is kind of newbie stuff that shouldn't be asked because most players have known this about akira for a long time. But I didn't know about this till a month ago and it kind of erked me cause 95% of all new players probably aren't gonna know this either.

Like TE'ing a side turned throw is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (or at least that's what I remember plague saying, I might be wrong, don't shoot me)

So basically I want to ask about more shinanigans that I don't really get in this game and want some clarity.

#1 Goh's hold that moves you around (I still don't know how get out of this correctly I just sort of mash TE)

#2 Vanessa's neutral parry

#3 Wolf's hold (unless it's the same as Gohs)

#4 The difference between red flashing stick and green flashing stick on the struggle escape

#5 Can you duck a catch throw irreguardless of frame disadvantage (I mean compared to regular throws)

#6 What "splat" KD moves are techable and what are not? ie like jacky inashi parry follow up

#7 Why do you sometimes stand up from down and your opponent is in the middle of a heavy down pounce and hits you while you are standing.

#8 How big is the window for getting a BT stagger from an opponent techrolling from head front, face down?

#9 What is the damage revision for hittin a downed opponent who failed to tech? ex: in EVO Akira AS3 sometimes did crap damage in an actually juggle but if you used it to relaunch a failed TR it did significant.

 

#7 If you're already standing, a heavy/light down attack can hit you if unless you are holding G and standing. If you crouch and guard the down attack will still hit you. I know, weird.

 

TE from side throw depends on side you are being thrown.
From right it's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif ; from left is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.

 

Interesting questions. Actually to escape side throws your command should be f+pg or b+pg, not f,b+pg. This is in respect of where the opponent is to you, if you are facing right and he dodges out to the screen you would press f+pg, if he dodges into the screen you would press b+pg. The commands are reversed (in term of left and right on the level, but not in term of forward or back) if you were facing left. This is a 50/50 guess, you cannot enter f+pg,b+pg to escape both.
Akira's f,b+pg. When you are hit by this move, you can enter f+pg, this will beat his shouldram, then you look at which way he dodges then input u+pg or d+pg respectively. If you cannot see the 2nd part, just do f+pg, then randomly do u+pg or d+pg. At least this will beat 2 out 3 of the options. However if you do this Akira can stop and enter a guard break and it will hit you while you are press G.
To break goh's holds you enter u or d or f or b depending where he drags you. You can just roll the stick once you see yourself being grabbed. if you look under the escape section in the command list it's there.
Vannessa's grabs involves press p, k, d+g, or pg. again the command list.
Wolf's holds are a bunch of commands with a direction +pg, you have to know what he does and enter the direction correctly to escape, you cannot escape more than 1 throw here. General idea is if he grabs you, you are kinda fucked. If he grabs you in the back, you are really fucked. Also here to know is when you escape here is that wolf is only at -1, he can use d+p to beat throws, elbows and up, and if you try to d+p him he can d+p cut you. check command list.
When the flash stick changes color, the system will not longer accept your struggling commands.
You can duck a catch throw, but since catch throws are slower you have more time to duck than normal throws.
You can't TR KD hits, you can TR air slam hits. Isn't Jacky's thing a head over heel slam hit?
When they "fail TR", it's no longer a real combo. the scaler resets. it's the same thing when you hit someone into a wall if you slightly delay your down attack it will do more damage.
most of these are from vf4, but they should still apply to 5, feel free to correct.

 

I believe for Goh's catch throw, you have to press the opposite direction he's pulling you. if he's pulling you left, you pull right. I dont think you can escape throws from that position

 

Thanks for the quick and precise answers guys. And big thanks to Shang for the advice on Akira's catch throw and the character specifics on the grappling holds.

Continuing on:

Sometimes when I get thrown I get hit by a weak down attack but sometimes I'm able to avoid it. Like Jacky's bfP+G throw. Is this a matter of struggling (tapping G and up or down) fast enough or is a matter of where you roll?

Also concerning the wall, I have noticed that when you hit the wall from a launching move or what not you cannot TR and there for your opponent can do something like fPK>heavy down. However if you hit your opponent with something like PPPK while in the air to the wall they can TR. Is this some kind of limit to wall hits? Like after the second hit they can TR when the land?

Do throws catch backdashes as well as evades?

PS: Though this has nothing to do with relevant gameplay, how the hell do Japanese players manage to get an opponent on the ground from like a throw to suddenly get relaunched and combo them out the ring or whatever embarrassing thing they want to do? I think they light down attack then some OTG move but I can't tell if that's what they are really doing. I've seen Chibita and some other players do it alot.

 

Do you have a more specific sequence of events that you saw? or do you have a video demonstrating this?

 

Well, from my understanding I think it is combo of both struggle and correct direction. Like Jeffry could tack a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif after his /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif unless the opponent rolls towards Jeffry's stomach (evo). Never tested it myself, so I'll stop myself from giving you more bad info on the subject.

Backdashing throws depends on range, I'm sure. I've backdashed a few, but never at the closest range. Anyone else?

Give a vid for that. I'm not really understanding.

 

I also wanted to know about Brad's Slip Right K (P+G) catch throw (hit throw?). In VF4Evo you could avoid or hit him out of the catch throw but in VF5 it looks like it's impossible to avoid.

Is it because after the hit the opponent is left at such a disadvantage that he/she has to take it?

 

Not sure that I'm clear on what you're asking on the floating the opp from the ground either (like after a throw or some other low floating move). Like the others said, if you can provide an example, it would be best.

However, I have a good guess as to what you are seeing. In comparison to other 3D fighters, VF has a very different re-float mechanic. Basically, if you can squeeze in a low jab (and in some cases, other moves) just as your opp is hitting the ground / at the very last second, you can refloat them higher / slower than if you did the low jab as early as possible. This re-float often allows for combos that normally seem impossible. However, timing is critical (although not as critical as it was in past games in the series) at first. However, the feel of it becomes second nature in a short time. Think of it as a very delayed low jab. This works, but is not limited to, a lot of flops / crumples that would otherwise seem like your combo choices are limited. I mentioned those specifically because they are a good starting point in becoming familiar with the proper timing. To try this out, basically play around with different timings of low punch in your juggles. The idea is to do it as late as possible (just as they are hitting the ground) without whiffing the punch.

Hope that makes sense.

Additionally, I'm not completely sure if that is what your seeing but from what you mentioned, it's my best guess.

 

What does KD mean again? Myke are you saying you can TR all slam hits in vf5? I'm confused from your mixture of japanese and english. My understanding of EVO is that you can TR slams when you are floated. In 5 you can TR moves that flips you over, you can't TR b,f+p's in 5 or are there some jp secret? please educate.
The jacky f,b+pg > soccer kick thing it's just a matter of struggling fast. Jerky used to always get hit by the kick at the end. Just struggle moderately and you get out of it.
With the jeffry d/f+k thing, if you struggle hard you can just roll out of the way either direction. this goes for after the pg or the 33pg. I used to have a lot of problems with this in evo, but in VF5 the struggle seems to be much easier, the same person who used to be able to hit me with d/f+k can never get it now in 5.
I think the TR off wall has something to do with angle and height, there probably are other factors also. At least with TFT, if I toss something 90degrees into a wall and end a combo with pppk, they can't TR it. but if it like say 70degrees then they can TR. also when you finish your pppk thing at least with kage into a wall and their body is too low on the float, they can TR. For example when I TFT someone with my back directly behind a high wall, he basically go up hit the wall and fall down. I can make a pppk > wall for more damage.. now if I hit him at the right height, I can also connect f+k then delay d/f+k (delay for more damage) after the pppk. If I hit him late on the pppk, the f+k will miss. And the different is significant from 60+points to 80+points.
Then there's the thing with if you delay some attacks into a wall they give a different wall hit, like the one where there's a small explosion when he hits the wall instead of regular wall hit from combo.
Isn't it great to be able to test all of these stuff in VF5 training mode huh, all you Sega fanboys.

 

If the light down attack happens first, I think what you're seeing is a broken rising attack. It counts as MC and since the opponent is so low to the ground, the float looks really vicious.

I used to do it in VF4:Evo a lot. I would use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif with the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif follow-up, wait for movement, and use KNEE. If they were doing a rising attack, I'd score a big float.

I finally did one in VF5 two days ago and I saved the replay just because. Check it out tomorrow and see if it's what you were talking about.

 

TR off wall is determined by height. Below the waist level, it's TR'able, otherwise it's not. You can test this in dojo mode.

Not ALL knockdowns are TR'able. Like Shang's example for Akira or even Lau's standing palm. You can test this in dojo mode, just set cpu to TR.

You can test down attacks after through by just setting CPU to recovery the fastest, and roll which ever way you want.

 

Unsafe Dan, is this what you're talking about?
Aoi at the end of round 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opXiV6m1QOs

 

I have a feeling that's what he's talking about too...

Unfortunately, you can't do that in a normal match. Only after the opponent is KO'ed. Since the KO'ed opponent can't TR, you can keep on doing bounce hits to the opponent.

Actually I take that back, against a noob who can't TR, you can do the same thing.

 

This has been an amazing thread for me /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Myke is correct, it's with G and not PG. Myke is so smart.
I'll add a couple of things people might or might not know.
You can tell if wolf did a Fastest timing Gaintswing instead of normal one by listening. If he says "YAHHH" then it's a fast one. This goes the same with his crumple hit 43+p > HCF+pg hit throw, however this throw's animation is different also.
If Aoi grabs you with her HCF+pg or HCB+pg multithrow, you can repeatly input d+pg's to get out of most of her options, she'll have to settle with the option of ending her throw early with u+pg which doesn't do much damage.
Kage's b+kkk is Mid, S-Low, Mid. if you have problems with this try to use a mid launcher right after blocking the b+k. If he tries any backturned stuff you will score counter. he can continue with the kks, but those do very little damage and big risky. This is not an all-in-one solution but it will beat a lot of options.
When character flips over you with a throw, you can reduce the height of their follow up attacks by holding d on the level without pressing the G button (this was in nooballs translation, which has great information I recommend all to read it.), this will make some of the combos miss.
If you block some move with extreme high recovery time (such as kage's ff+pkg), use OM > K will make an auto side crumple hit. Ff you can do this consistently (which isn't hard), kage will never use ff+pkg on you again.
Finally, in 5 fuzzy guarding plays a bigger role in most american player's defensive game. If you play a character with a low throw consider it a gift from the vf gods. If the other guy's ducking or fuzzying a lot, make a mental note in your head in places where you would poke with a mid, use a low throw. You will not only get amazing results and people will really wow at your game.