VF Woes

Yeah I know poor baby, anyway I was wondering has anyone wanted to be good with a certain character only to suck complete ass with that character? I'm serious, it boggles my mind that I can be half way decent with Jeffry yet I play Brad twice as much and get my ass handed to me. Better yet I do even better with Shun Di than I do with Jeffry and I haven't played the ol coot since VF2 to any real degree.

It really makes no sense to me. Is it a matter of the learning curve being steeper? Or a character being more combo dependent?
Eh who knows.

/rant

 

Maybe you're suited to a certain type of character?

Jeff requires a different skillset then Brad.

 

Yeah, well I can win with Lau too probably more so than Jeff.
Maybe I need simplicity haha. God Lau is boring. Shun really
should be my main but I feel like he's not as challenging to
win with for me.

Maybe it's the hit checking and stance shifts, I probably
just don't have what it takes to see that shit.

 

VF woes suck.

Just leave Brad alone for a lil bit and then come back to him.

I'm going through the same issues, and man it's really discouraging and can mess your confidence all up and everything. You get owned up by somebody but be all like, shit man if I was using so and so and just used a certain move constantly in this situation they wouldn't even know how to stop it. What makes it even worse is when you feel you're definitely the better player but you got beat down pretty bad.

Sometimes you just got to re-evaluate your learning process and simplify your game a lil bit. That's why I suggest using other characters for a while cause it forces you to build your fundaments to get by, and it helps you to understand particular situations in a match from a different perspective. Then when you go back to your favorite, they're better than before(after warmup).

 

That sums it up right there. Different people click with different chars. It's dumb to fight it. If you're doing better with one char oppose to another one then go for it.

If you're fighting people on your level every win should be challenging. I highly recommend going with him for a while start fighting against better players and you'll hit a wall. Thing is that natural talent wall will come later than with another character you're struggling with.

 

It sounds from your first complaint like you're still a beginner to some extent. That is, I'm not trying to be insulting or anything, but to be naturally better in that sense, your playstyle may still lack a meticulous understading of each move and how it fits into that character's overall game.

Jeff is slow, but often only needs to hit people once, if you can block and punish, then you understand how to play him. He's easy to learn, but difficult to continue usingly effectively at high levels.

Brad needs to played aggressively, and you need to have a very deep understanding of both closed/open stance and how to apply his ducking/slipping/... moves. He definitely has a steeper learning curve than most characters.

Shun Di has lots of weird properties and sabakis that often prevent the "standard" responses from being used against him. That is, if you're winning more with him, it may be simply because your opponents don't understand how to play against him, more than you actually playing better than with your other characters.

If you keep getting better, and give some time for your opponents' to get better, I would expect character matchups will even out.

 

This could very well be the case, I'm still new to VF5 shit I think I've had like 600 games, compared to a lot of people on LIVE anyway that's nothing. I play like one other person offline
so my experience is limited. That being said.

I really don't know man, I got up to 10th dan online using Jeff then got demoted to like 6th trying to play Brad. Not that I believe that much in the ranking system but it doesn't make sense that I can get that high playing Jeff. If I'm still playing at a beginner level. Shit I fight Attorney4Hire who's played WAY more than me online and beat him more than he beats me who's also a Jeffry player. (It's close though)

As far as character types to be honest, my style has always been either pressure and punish with big characters/simple mind games with awkward characters and poking bumrush. Aka, Jeffry, Shun Di, Lau. I've played this way since VF1/VF2. VF3 I switched to Taka for kicks, gave up Lau because he became boring, then gave up the game because noone played it. VF4 I played Jeff, Shun and a little Lei Fei too keep things interesting (I bore easy.) FT I didn't play and now I'm back in VF5 with the old lineup. Jeff, Shun, Lau. I mean I may be new to some mechanics but not new to VF.

I'm thinking its all the stance dependent stuff and slips. Also I'm used to be lazy and not worry about pushing the stick up and down or hitting guard to cancel strings that will give me slips. I think I'll take doods advice and step away go back to my general game plan then see if I can dedicate some time to retraining these old hands.

To stay competitive it may be best to stick to what I know, I really don't think I'm going to have the time to learn anything else since I'm not in high school, college.....errr in my 20's anymore hahaha. So I think it's just the opposite, I'm too experienced while I am stuck in back in the day tactics VF has gotten more complicated. Old bad habits die hard.

Just call me Bruce Willis.

FORUM: SUGARMAN
XBOX GT: MEKAHIINEYHOE
OLD SCHOOL NICK: UNCAUZI
MY MOMMY CALLS ME: HONEY

 

This may sound like me being a jerk, but I think you should stick with it. It takes people a while to get really good at anything, and the best way to do it is to work through the things that piss you off and find ways to put the matchups in your favor. Obviously there are people who beat Brad players using Jeffry, so try to get the advice you can, and don't be one of those people who equates their time playing as knowledge, because in reality it never works that way.

Challenge yourself. Play with people who are absolutely impossible to win against and develop your ways to do real damage. Communicate with those people and get as much advice as you can. USE IT, and your game will improve no matter who you play.

As far as Brads go, it sounds like you need to work on patience, and knowing Brad's strings. I suggest going through Brad's movelist if you haven't already done so and look for moves that you know you take lots of damage from. Find the hit levels and possible counters and test them out.

I wish I could help out more, but I'm a Wolf guy. Playing all "top-tier" guys get old and realistically, it's all a matter of convenience and information anyway(in my opinion), so why not develop your own way?

Good luck!

 

You have to go with the flow as the old saying goes. If you are good with a character then you should go with that character that is why you practice every character early on and find out what character clicks with you the best early on that way you know what character works best for you right away.

 

I don't need help beating Brads with Jeffry in fact I'm very confident in my Jeffry in general. I'm just frustrated with my inability to play a character who's fighting style I like. I've come to accept it though, I'll play him here and there but if I want to make a dent in a real player. (I'm not that hardcore.) I'll have to use one of my top 3 until I can play Brad.

Just as a competitive player I'm very bad at losing all day when I could just be playing as someone else and winning. I already started with some advice on here though, I've started playing matches ONLY against people near my level or higher. It's made things a lot more interesting not to mention I'm starting to beat some of them regularly /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

I'm just happy that I'm not a pushover once I started playing these 10th Dans/Masters etc. Hard to get the matches all the time as an 8th Dan though.

 

Hmm iirc I have played your Jeffry.. Anyways, are you saying that your problem is that you think you are not using slips enough, or you have trouble using them (as in getting hit out of them)?

Imo Brad is bit difficult character in the sense that you have to utilize the slips and particular slip moves to reasonable extent. Moreover, you need to stay alert what the opponent will try to do and adapt to opponents playing style bit more than with other characters I think. This on top of being aware of the stance and getting the slip moves that you want.

 

Maybe, I recently stopped accepting lag matches except for once in a while. I realized I get hit by less wakeup akira double palms when the lag indicator is green. (I swear some characters get away with murder on live and Jeffry isn't one of them.)

I agree on Brad, I'll just play with him in player match from time to time until I become more comfortable. In all honesty I didn't do BADLY with him per se. It's just that certain character matchups that I didn't have difficulty with playing Jeff seemed almost impossible when I was playing Brad. My friend watched me play Brad vs Brad the other day and although it should have been obvious it boiled down to this.

"Dood your outplaying him, here's your problem you launch him and you don't do shit for combos and juggles. He launches you and you lose like 40% life. You've launched/staggered him like 5 times a match and you get launched/staggered like twice. That and you don't do shit on wakeup. No juggle threat + no wakeup = you can out think someone all day but if they get you in trouble twice and you die it doesn't matter if you get in their head 10 times and do 10% each time."

Heh, I was even doing alright with slips etc the thing is I wasn't using them to expand my combos or OTG damage. String cancelling is another thing I got to work on. Good ol (G) button. Well that and why the hell I was going for way more throws than any non grappler should. In other words before I bitch about not being able to win I should spend some time in the dojo

 

Your friend's advice sounds good. If you fight someone and they make 3 or more mistakes, you should win. You need to become more efficient with Brad.

I know with Wolf or Jeff, if you're opponent makes just 2 mistakes you can win the match. I'm guessing your Jeff is a much more efficient fighter compared to Brad... obviously with throws, and you're likely much more competent with his combos as well.

I admittedly rely too heavily on throws with Sarah, a character with relatively weak throws, and I therefor have to force 4 or 5 mistakes out of my opponent to win sometimes... but xbox live's aggressive players are weaning the heavy reliance on tick-throws out of my game... I have to admit this is a good thing.

 

I really should play you more Yupa simply so I can get used to Sarah in general. I've lost to so many Sarahs I could be playing a scrub Sarah and freeze up.

Yeah my Jeff is more efficient, I've tweaked him a good deal lately. Not a powerhouse (despite what some may think) but he's
better. For Jeff it was more a matter of being more mobile, I
played a very stagnant immobile Jeff.

 

I've played you a couple of times before, and though I personally wouldn't consider myself a scrub Sarah, the reason you couldn't beat my Sarah was because you don't do enough damage with Jeffry.

If Sarah is out damaging Jeffry blow for blow, then that's big trouble for you. You need to learn stronger and better combos, be less linear, and stop being predictable with throws or they'll be escaped. The Sarah vs Jeffry matchup is messed up imo on a risk/reward damage standpoint just cause of how much Jeffry outclasses Sarah on damage when taking the same exact risks.

I've only had trouble with one Jeffry, and that's AdamYUKI's. Why? Because you battle him, you get raped. No really though cause he makes every hit with Jeffry count, if the knee hit I lost more than half life, if I land the equivalent it does far less than half and on punishing in that fight, Sarah's at much higher risk of loosing life way too fast.

Jeffry can go all in and fail 2, almost 3 times per round in the matchup, while Sarah can only fail once.. anytime that round after that, it's over for her.

This is talking about both players doing MAX DAMAGE. If I the Sarah player is doing max damage, but you the Jeffry player is not, then you just tiped the scales the "wrong" way.

 

Dude, I've gotten my ass kicked by noobs with Sarah before and the main cause was bc I did not know enough about her.
It wasn't until I started playing with her and studying her frame data that I finally was able to take on any Sarah player regardless of their playing style.
If you play Yupa's Sarah all the time then you will learn to fight Yupa's Sarah mainly and when a different Sarah player with different tactics and techniques comes around you will fair better but unless that Sarah user fights similar to Yupa you will have to learn that particular user.

Your best bet when dealing with characters that give you probs is to study them on a one by one basis. Play with them in quest mode. I know some of them can be "boring" when compared to your fav character but it will help you more to know what Sarah CAN do and what she CAN NOT do.
Here's a training tip: go to dojo mode, learn all of Sarah's moves then pick Sarah VS Sarah and go head to head at the highest level setting, from here the cpu will show you a few of Sarah's combos and tactics. Learn these and try to do them back to the cpu (might have to put back the cpu back to standing still) then when you go into quest mode, the opposing cpu will show you quite a few of Sarah's weaknesses. How? By playing as Sarah and trying some of the things that the cpu or human opponents have done against you, the cpu will sometimes show you just how to deal with some of these Sarah tricks.
This is how I learned how to deal with El Blaze's Rocket Discharge.
After this if you like you can take it a step further and start learning more advanced combos from the black book.
Oh and dont forget to read what the black book and wiki have to say about the particular character that you are trying to learn. There are strenghts and even weaknesses written in there sometimes.

Mind that the quest mode settings are on the most difficult level and that you are playing a Dan or above most of the time. It's going to take you a while and you will prob get your ass kicked... a lot BUT you will learn more about Sarah's movements, range of her attacks and various setups.
This way, little by little, you will learn each and every character. Just make sure that you start out with the one that gives you the most problems and then work your way down to the one that gives you the least.
Dude, this is a deep, deep game and unlike other fighting games it can take you a lifetime to master the whole game.

P.S.
I'm an old school VF player too and I had the good luck of getting back into the game with VF4 and then EVO.
EVO is absolutely the best VF in the series to get back into the game with. It shows you A LOT of series/tactics/combos on each and every character. If you dont mind downgrading the graphics and losing a few of VF5's moves I highly suggest that you pick that game up and see for yourself the absolute best training mode in a fighting game ever.
It will most def help improve your offense and more importantly (imho) your defense.

 

^ Really wonder if 5:EVO's console version will go all out like 4's did. Sure hope so, because I agree with what you said about it.

 

Tony:
Eh, to lazy for that. Granted I did try that with Lei Fei...and well...I started winning and understanding his moves but it was easier to win by just wiggling my fingers and pressing the Dpad with my tongue.

Slide:
Although I don't know if I played you or not. Hands down I just lose to Sarah in general. I've played Gohs on here that are considered good, Jackys, Laus etc. I can hang or beat them. Sarah? I stare at Flamingo stance and get sodomized.

I can do decent damage with Jeffery after 2 combos your almost dead generally. Now am I good at always taking advantage of combo opportunities? No, I know that much. Adam Yukis been playing VF forever. I remember playing him waaaay long ago (raped him I might ad) but it was early in VF4 I think in NyC. I'm talking the first month it came out. I played VF barely since then; comparing me to him? Ridiculous. If I remember correctly didn't the NyC Crew even fly japs there to play? He better be able to rape lol.

Shit he should just push start and your Sarah should already be clothesless and bleeding.

All I'm trying to do with Jeff is be competitive in my part time online vf'er kind of way if that means not fully understanding every characters frame rates. I don't think I need to know Sarah inside and out to beat people. Shit my friends a Jacky Player "Bizazedo" who hasn't played VF since VF2 competitively and he's 10th dan raping the players I lose to. As far as frame rate counting, I'd rather be selling paying attention to my stocks n bonds =)

 

my gt is: action kungfu, but don't worry though because I lose to Sarahs too, real bad actually. I hardly if ever, win matches against people that are playing the character I use no matter what game it is. Part of that is cause I know where a really good move could be applied and think they're going to do it and I freeze up.

If you don't take advantage of combo opportunities then your damage output goes into the shitter. Also I had no idea you've been a part of VF this long though.

hahah yeah but when he pushed start I made sure to backdash Sarah away for a couple of seconds before hand.

 

I remember playing you, we played a few when I first started. I got better since then, sadly I recently became worse. Either that or the competition got better. Who knows.

Yah I was part of VF back in the hey day of rec.games.video.arcade aka I'm an old fucker. Back when virtuafighter.com was ran buy a bloke by the name of D0dee who was like 14 at the time and he's now like 27 haha.

Old Nick: UnCauzi
GT: MEKAHINEYHOE