VF4 and Bubble Tea

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Guest, Sep 1, 2001.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think VF4 is the first game in the VF franchise that has the best chance of hitting the popularity of the capcom games. Sega should implement the card system in the states. The reputation thing is one of the major things that I think keeps a player playing. Its sort of like merging RPG elements into a fighting game. Since VF4 is hitting when the internet is a huge thing, sharing information and building a community for the game would be easier.

    VF4 could become a social phenominon and change the gaming scene of the states. I think it will still be a largely Asian thing at first but will gradulay trickle down to the rest of the western gamers.

    The VF4 Card system in the states could be like bubble tea places. They sprung up all over the place in major cities and started as a eastern thing thats becoming popular in the west.

    VF4 should hit LA, Chicago, Boston, and NYC huge with the card system. These cities are the ones with the huge family game centers that can hold 4 machines+ at a time.

    I thikn this would be a good sell to the family game centers if they brought the card system to the states. They can easily show how popular VF4 is in japan and stress replay value in the fighter through the cards. It would be waaaaay cool to fight in the states and take your card to japan where it would work in Japan and you can compare a 7 dan Japanese player to a 7 dan US player for instance.

    CrewNYC
     
  2. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    So you're saying that VF's chances of becoming as popular as one of the VS. games has jumped?
    From what? 1/10000000000 to 1/9999999999 odds?

    Anyway. You're smoking stuff. VF will never come close as long as tekken is around, because tekken is always more willing to sell out to please scrubs while VF focuses on the wishes of the hardcore gamer. Tekken will always be flashier, goofier, and more amusing the way The Three Stooges is more amusing than Apocolypse Now.
    And VF prices are scary enough, our arcade owners are not going to pay to implement a VFNet system.
    WTF is a "Bubble Tea" place? They didn't exactly spring up like wildfire if nobody I know has heard of one. Are you sure that the fact that one opened up a block away is indicative of 3,000 others ones sprouting up across the US?

    I shouldn't be yelling at you, because we both would love to see the card system in the states, but you're so blatantly in your own little crackden world that I just HAVE to.
    Please see reality!


    /versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>~~~ Don't make me rape you with a sharp stick ~~~/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>
     
  3. E-Dog

    E-Dog Member

    Wow Andy, you just caught a bad one!! I'm sure Rich is laughing his ass off...LOL
     
  4. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    oh fucking yeah.

    --
    "What we got here is a failure to communicate..."
     
  5. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    I haven't been to too many places in recent times, but California and New York were the only places where I actually saw a decent amount ot "Pearl Tea" hang outs. Currently, I can only think of one such place in Portland, and as much as I like it, it's not catching on (I'm pretty sure a lot of Americans worry that they might choke or gag on the bubbles/pearls/balls).

    Something that I think had a bigger "impact" in the US would be photo-sticker machines, but the US has always had photo-booths which were probably at their peak in the 1970's(?)

    Oddly enough, since you use the term bubble tea... I think VF.Net lost even more of its chances in the US with the 'net craze's bubble bursted. To implement a VF.Net is probably way more troublesome than it'll ever be worth in Sega of America's mind. Even without I-Mode support. Besides, I might be wrong, but my impression might be that the VF.Net hardware is not using a local line or any such thing to contact servers, I might be wrong, but I'm sure it's actually using cellular technology.

    I do share the same desire for VF.Net to exist in the US, but at least we'll have the game.

    -Chanchai
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well one thing can be agreed, we both want to see the Card system and VF4 suceed. Bubble Tea is a huge phenomenon in NYC with new stores springing up all over the place. Also it's hugely popular. It was doubtful to succeed here given Starbucks and Coffee is the standard. Even harder was to get people to drink tea with milk and tapioca pearls in it. Yet it can't be argued that people are accepting in en masse here in NYC.

    The idea was to launch VF4 with the card system in major cities where you have a huge Asian population and in large game centers where you have lots of tourists passing through. The Asian gaming community is very different from the norm and alot of gamers tend to follow what they are playing thinking it must be good.

    Believe me a bubble tea place wont exactly take off in Idaho same as VF4 with a Card system. But stick it in the game center in Times Square where you have tons of Japanese people going through it and lots of local gamers and its an ideal match. DDR for instance has tons of comepetition there and again was taught to the players by asian individuals who learned largely from overseas. NYC has a monstrous Japanese population with gamers seeking the same experience they had in Japan.

    CrewNYC
     
  7. uk_kid

    uk_kid Well-Known Member

    ...while VF focuses on the wishes of the hardcore gamer

    Totally true, up until VF4.

    What's with the sig by the way? SICKENING! ;)
     
  8. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    no. probably moreso with vf4. after all, it's a japanese game made for a japanese market, and with vf4 they are catering to the long-time vf fan to a huge degree. they have the return to a vf2 feel, and they've got vf.net.

    --
    "What we got here is a failure to communicate..."
     
  9. uk_kid

    uk_kid Well-Known Member

    VFNet is to enable the game to become more widespread among casual gamers.

    Japanese market? While it's true that Sega want to make VF [even] more popular in Japan, with VF4 it is more of a case of searching for a much more global popularity, methinks.


    they are catering to the long-time vf fan to a huge degree

    What, by introducing gimmicks, scrubby characters and making moves easier to execute?
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm sure Sega cares more how many home copies of VF4 they will sell vs how popular it will be in the arcades. The home market dwarfes the size of the arcade market.

    Sega spends X to develop the game.
    In the arcade market they can make for instance 2 or 3X
    (the simple formula for this is you have a maximum number of gamers in Japan, given 100% of the gamers play the game 24x7 for say 5 years which could be prime play period for the game) you can only sell X number of the units to arcade operators and make X profit from game centers sega owns)

    Now the home market is completely different, the number of gamers globally compared to just japan equals the number of people who own the consoles which is huge. Sega can make 10X the cost to develop the game.

    These arent actual figures just a fictional comparison, but the size of the home market is so much bigger im sure Sega would not ignore that. VF4 is much more along the lines of being a mainstream fighter now and i'm sure some of the pressure was put on sega to do this to attract more home buyers.

    CrewNYC
     
  11. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    what the fuck do you know? you haven't even PLAYED the FUCKING GAME.

    --
    "What we got here is a failure to communicate..."
     
  12. uk_kid

    uk_kid Well-Known Member

    you haven't even PLAYED the FUCKING GAME

    Says who?
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well aparently uk_kid has much better business sense than you..

    Here's a quote from uk_kid:

    "...with VF4 it is more of a case of searching for a much more global popularity, methinks."

    He doesnt need to have played the game to make these types of assertations.

    Mr. Bungle should call himself Bungholio...

    CrewNYC
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Okay I should be a bit nicer...nevermind the last sentance...

    CrewNYC
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    WTF is a "Bubble Tea" place? They didn't exactly spring up like wildfire if nobody I know has heard of one. Are you sure that the fact that one opened up a block away is indicative of 3,000 others ones sprouting up across the US?

    A "bubble tea place" is one of the largest phenoms to hit NA. In some places you can't walk a kilometer without bumping into one. Toronto is a good place to point to for this. On my last visit there I lost count of the Ten Ren's and other bubble tea places that have sprung up.

    I think you may just live in a closet or intollerant community to not have seen at least one. Really. It's pretty freaking huge. Started in Vancouver (from the Western Perspective) in mass amounts and drifted over.

    R-Nut
    **are you gonna, I said, are you gonna?**
     
  16. Kiuju

    Kiuju Well-Known Member

    Well that would be interesting to see a U.S. 7 dan vs. a Jp 7 dan. But, if they were to implement that here its gonna go back to the whole pricing of Vf4. I mean how much for all that? It would come down to major arcades having actual vf4 cabinets with vf.net I don't see smaller arcades carrying it. Who knows the way america is it would cost more than a buck simply because they think since it has that extra feature they feel justified to charge that much.

    Who knows only time can tell what Sega or arcade vendors are going to do. God knows they haven't really said anything.

    Kiuju
     
  17. uk_kid

    uk_kid Well-Known Member

    Random Thoughts

    * Rich: have you played VF4? What makes you the authority on it?
    * My original point stands: VF _was_ tailored for experts. Not any more.


    New Things For Veteran Players/Experts:

    * VFNet can show bystanders who is the boss onscreen thanks to the 7th Dan (et al.) paraphernalia
    * Some additional strategies resulting from Side- and Back-Throw escapes
    * Flat arenas means buttonbashers won't be as likely to win by means of a lucky terrain combo
    * Still lots to learn, which will benefit those willing to put the time in

    New Stuff for Scrubs:

    * 'Old' moves and combos have been severely toned down in terms of execution difficulty (e.g. Lau's d/f k, f p, b,f p is now much easier; DLC)
    * Throws are now easier to connect (don't have to be as close)
    * Throw escapes are now easier (e.g. Giant Swing)
    * Lei Fei can apparently be used very easily (ala Hwoarang)
    * Faster/de-emphasised recovery times means beginners won't be punished as much for missing big moves
    * Auto shit, such as reversals
    * Quick rolling (this was probably introduced as a direct copy from Tekken and the like [to entice the scrubs by making it quicker, with none of that dirty oki to deal with, God forbid])
    * Gimmicks, such as shite-looking headguards and weird looking costume tidbits
    * Pre-match shenanigans to entice the Tekken crowd (I'm not against this. Just saying)
    * Say what you want but some details do remind me of Namco games (such as when I first saw stills of the European Castle style stage)
    * A plethora of stances (every scrub I know thinks Lei Wulong is cool because of his stances)




    My argument stems from how much more significant the points in the second list are than those in the first. They _have_ added new stuff for veterans, but not like how it was in previous games because of the new stuff for scrubs, which overshadows the new 'good additions', in my opinion. I mean, come on - auto reversals and auto rolling in a VF game!? I would have laughed in your face if someone would have suggested that a year ago.

    I admit that there is probably lots more stuff that deserves to be in the first list, but I can't be bothered writing any more right now.
     
  18. Kiuju

    Kiuju Well-Known Member

    <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

    The idea was to launch VF4 with the card system in major cities where you have a huge Asian population and in large game centers where you have lots of tourists passing through. The Asian gaming community is very different from the norm and alot of gamers tend to follow what they are playing thinking it must be good.

    <hr></blockquote>


    I just read into that and I gonna have to disagree. Gamers tend to follow winners or well known gamers especially with fighting games. I don't know any other way to put it. That may be in NYC but, Its definately not like that in Cali.

    If we actually followed the eastern trends then vf3/tb would have been massively successful along with vf4 matter of fact we wouldn't have this discussion LOL. While i'm on the subject. Nissans/toyotas would be the cars of choice(better yet the majority) for road racing along with other types of extreme driving(not hondas). We would have saw Dragonball a long ass time ago. Saturn would've done substantially better. We would have had a Saturn U.S. version of Grandia and maybe the rest of Shining Force III. Also wouldn't hurt to see some one piece episodes syndicated. Hell mangas would be popular in general. Wait i went way off the subject.

    <<skip to next sentence>>

    Only eastern gaming Trends I see are the bemani games. God knows I can't stand them.
     
  19. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Well, I'm not 100% sure about the Asian thing, but I agree with Andy's basic approach.

    What Sega needs to do to make VF4 a household success like Street Fighter and Tekken is to push for a VF4 "culture." The VF.net system was created specifically to reinforce this culture in Japan.

    Unfortunately, in the U.S., Sega doesn't have a base to work with. That is why it's important for Sega from a marketing perspective to make a push in the major cities -- because it is in the major cities where you will have density, a critical mass of "hardcore" arcade gamers to generate regular competition, and get the biggest bang for your marketing buck.

    Andy used the bubble tea example because this is exactly the strategy franchises like St. Alps used, although with an Asian population slant. (I can't vouch for NC, but bubble tea is HOT in Singapore and Hong Kong).

    To say that VF4 can never succeed like Tekken or Street Fighter because it is less newbie-friendly is a sack of shit. Sega shouldn't be targeting casual gamers. They should be targeting the hardcore, arcade-enthusiast veteran fighting game population from competition like Tekken and Street Fighter. It's difficult if not impossible to convince a casual gamer to buy into this culture, but it's much easier to convince a serious Tekken player to try VF4 out and stick with it. How many Tekken players do you know that converted to VF once they've given it a serious try and have competition to play against? I personally know at least five. And they like VF better because it is a better game to play at the highest level.

    These are the people that Sega need to target, and most of these people are in the major cities like New York, LA, Vancouver, Toronto, etc.

    But will Sega go for all this? Hell no. They have few resources, VF3 was not a good precedent, and the arcade market and the economy in general has turned to shit. Plus they lack corporate leadership and vision...at least when it comes to this game.

    SOA's VF4 strategy is simple: sell as many god damn PS2 ports as they can.
     
  20. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Random Thoughts

    In reply to uk kid's post...

    I disagree that throws are more scrub-friendly. It seems that knowing what the throw opportunities are more important. Well, actually, I take it back. The system IS more beginner (the mashing type) friendly, but it is less friendly to those starting out on the game for real. It seems that knowing what the correct potential-throw situations are so much more important in pulling off the throw...when you're not trying to throw by luck.

    I totally think the QR/TR system is NOT newbie friendly. Newbies will not know how to QR/TR, and players who do know will just totally abuse them with ground combos. Plus, when you're on the ground, provided the opponent is within distance, to a newbie it's basically a 50/50 game. Good odds for the newbie right? Try to yomi a masher in a 50/50 situation...not good odds for the veteran. When I play against a beginner, I don't want 50/50 odds; that sucks! (Of course, in VF3tb AM2 improved the odds of the veteran, mainly through ura. And yes, playing with distance--i.e. getting the rising kick to whiff, and then to counter--are available options).

    Forcing the opponent to get up to avoid insane ground combos will actually emphasize yomi and award the player with the good brain, because when the defender gets up it's no longer necessarily a forced 50/50 guessing game.
     

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