VF4 at bugis + Lion stuff

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by alantan, Oct 20, 2001.

  1. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    really had a great day at bugis today. It was CONSTANT challenges and no vs CPU which should be the case.

    Met Kiat whom I have not seen for a long long time. Sad to say he trashed me with his Wolf/Sarah and he is only playing for like err 2 days... sigh.. should not play vs CPU at AMK so often.

    Still it is when you play against someone better that makes VF more enjoyable as you figure out ways to beat him.

    Things about lion:
    d+K+G: is essential to get out of a rush. Lion seems to have a REALLY REALLY slow P. sigh... against a P,elbow,P,elbow Sarah it is very tough.

    b,d/f+P really good move. dunno if my opponent is not used to it or its executioin time is faster than it looks, it connected quite often. Followups like f,f+k,k (you have to take a steo forward first) or b,f+g+k is possible.

    d/b+p: pretty high priority at mid range, good move to use when you are out of range for d+p. Somehow Chibita uses only one P... maybe it recovers faster??

    Questions:
    Lion punches..
    now PPP does not knock down. What is the initiative like after a connected PPP??

    How is PP compared to b,f+P+K,P??? both are two punches. I know the new pp hits mid at the second hit but is b,f+P+K faster in execution time than P?? how about recovery time? my gut feeling is that b,f++P+K,P recovers faster..
     
  2. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Alan, say hi to Kiat for me!

    d+K+G: is essential to get out of a rush. Lion seems to have a REALLY REALLY slow P. sigh... against a P,elbow,P,elbow Sarah it is very tough.

    Have you ever consided CDing backwards after blocking a P or elbow and then reinitiating combat that way? I don't know how well that would work but it seems like a possibility.
     
  3. koro128

    koro128 Well-Known Member

    Alan, your Lion and Wolf is very good as well, particularly Lion. To beat your fren you can only use Lion, which has the best chance.
    You said your fren has only been playing for 2days and have been able to "trash" you. Did he trash you? i dun think so.
    I would say he had 65% chance of beating you with his tactics.

    He trashed me that afternoon but remember, people improve and it may not be the same everytime.
    The reason that he is able to use so many characters IMO is his ability to make use of very basic moves of this game to great advantage. For this i must take my hat off him, for now.

    Let's exchange pointers on our experience fighting him. After leaving the place, I recall how my Kage have failed to execute almost all "fanciful" moves against him. b,b,K+G doesnt work because he is very careful to block downwards.
    2ndly he tends to intimidate opponents by running towards them when the opponent is down. This brings both characters very close.
    From there he mixes (using wolf for eg) low,p and f+k and some other moves i'm not sure. Low P to make you block downwards and any attempt to retaliate (low,p or low block) is spoilt by his f+k. Once he realises you start to block high, he fakes a high kick, cancels the move and does a leg throw.
    Similar tactics is used with his Sarah, which is equally deadly... with Quick punches and elbows, Sarah can easily mix punch, elbow and if needed, a throw or a f + p, k .

    The only way i can think of beating this guy is paying him by his own medicine. Kage has his own mixture of punches and elbow, though not as fast as Sarah.

    Still all these are theory and the important thing is beating this guy. meanwile i'll still be practising my Kage in AMK funland. Hope it changes to 50cents soon, like Tekken 4.

















    When the chill of winter comes to hell, only the fittest resist the Bell. - Navy SEAL
     
  4. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    well,

    He did have some streaks against me. Anyway, his name is Kiat, I think... too long no see. Anyway, he was a better VF3 player than me to. One of the few in Singapore heehee...

    I think Kage's elbow has change and is not really similar to sarah's. you will lose out in the end.

    Actually THE WAY to win with style is crouch under and P and do Lion's from crouch throw to punish a whiffed P. sigh but I am getting old... fingers not that responsive anymore.

    I can still remember in VF2 days when I can giant swing a whiffed P by crouching using b,d/b,d motion. If you see a missed high P. just roll forward for GS.

    vs Kiat's Wolf, like someone else said, cd back is a good idea. I think I won a game when I realised that. Wolf is VERY strong at close range but quite weak at long range. I should use Lion's speed to move in and out. Maybe should try Lion's back dodge. Anyway, VF4 seems to be like VF2 where movement is much more impt. In VF3, moving back is rather tough.

    and I forgot about Lion's sabaki move


    PS: I didn't get to play VF4 today.... worked at the office until 11pm.... sigh...
     
  5. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Hey Alan, I was the one with the CD-back advice. ;) If I remember how Kiat plays back in VF3 correctly, he was a master at PETE-style play (PETE = punch/elbow/throw/escape). The best way to beat him is to keep spacing and mid-range distance and to interrupt him as he tries to advance close to you.

    Good luck, and don't forget to tell him about VFDC!
     
  6. koro128

    koro128 Well-Known Member

    IT was a joy to challenge an expert in a sense. Though i've not completed the game, i think it wouldn't be a shame cos a CPU is still a CPU.

    I was thinking of using escape to move away from his PETE, or whatever, haha...

    I think one thing we can do is to try to use more characters, then when we fight that char, it's easier to know what kind of moves will be used. I was disappointed not able counter Kiat's Leg throw on Sat sigh...
    insufficient knowledge of such characters also proved my downfall.

    Alan, u realise the Lion whom you fought initially when u came also not bad. For a moment i though he could beat you!! hehe..

    When the chill of winter comes to hell, only the fittest resist the Bell. - Navy SEAL
     
  7. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    ice-9,

    I am sorry but I do not know who you are, although I am pretty sure I know you, just that I do not know your nick.

    I can beat Kiat no problem, just not as often as he beats me :)

    played at bugis today for a short while. somehow I cannot get used to the joystick. I get u/f+K when doing f,f+k... duh... sigh..

    I forgot to tell him about vfdc.
     
  8. Rulakir

    Rulakir Well-Known Member

    Alan, here's one thing that I noted that you might be able to incorporate into your repetoire.... :)

    Remember that I mentioned that b/d+P+K, or was it f/d+P+K move to you ? I think it would be awfully useful when it comes to a mad P,G,P,G rush, or when faced with perhaps a d+Ping crazed player....

    Something that you can try, since you Evade, and retaliate.... but then, I'm thinking in old VF3 style....

    -Rulakir
     
  9. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    I was reading the Japanese boards on VF4 overweight, and there was some mentioned about a confirmed throw after d/b+P+K normal hit. dunno if that is true. But I think that move recovers really slow.

    Well, Chibita does not use that move at all .... :) wonder how old are the movie of chibita... probably quite old.
     
  10. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    The Chibita vs Skeleton movie is 10/15, less than two weeks ago...


    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.feixaq.com/vf4>[​IMG]</A>
     
  11. Rulakir

    Rulakir Well-Known Member

    Waitamin, by normal hit, do you mean that the move fails to achieve a knockdown and just hits the opponent ? I thought that it was a confirmed knockdown akin to d+K+G type moves ? Hmm....

    But to press my point, I'm thinking about using d/b+P+K as a retaliatory move. Though I wonder how effective it would be against Knife Crazed Laus... *Ponders*

    I'm wondering if I should even make the trip down to Bugis.... I'm awfully poor as it is.... =[

    -Rulakir
     
  12. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    Re: VF4 at bugis Lion stuff

    no it staggers now I think.

    Anyway was reading some Japanese boards, you can find all sort of info there.

    Well, there is a rumor that Lion, P K G (high punch) gives a punch that is 2 frame faster than a normal P????? wow that is very interesting. Can someone verify this? The board say that they did some experiment with 2 Lion's. Player 2 blocked a high P from Player 1. After the blocked P, both sides try a high P. Player 2 will win. BUT if player 1 uses P K G, player 1 will win!! Hey can someone try this out?? This reqiure both players to be quite good to be accurate. I usually play vs CPU.

    The board is here so maybe someone with better Japanese can translate better. http://home2.highway.ne.jp/osada/redzone/

    anyway,
    Lion's, crouching,f P is supposedly throw counterable... so is his new move b,f P K,P,P. his b/d p,p when blocked is low throw counterable. All info is unverified. read from boards.
     
  13. Dashwolf

    Dashwolf Well-Known Member

    Re: VF4 at bugis Lion stuff

    urrr....
    played at bugis today on sunday since 1pm till about 5..
    was kinda able to guage my standard now
    hehe...in short i tink i suck -_-
    met a Lau who kept hitting me senseless and making me struggle all the time, literally handed the win to him.
    met another guy who seems really good, was using kage and lei fei, i had totally no idea on how to fight his lei fei, he confused me bad :(
    i wonder if they come here...
     
  14. koro128

    koro128 Well-Known Member

    Re: VF4 at bugis Lion stuff

    Hi Dashwolf, i think i was the Kage u played with Today. And also tried LeiFei, which i practiced a bit on Friday morning. No hardfeelings....

    Anyway today at Bugis was VERY cold, not much players on VF4. I was very disappointed that 1 particular machine was spoilt and i went all the way down there. Still it was unfortunate that the place was so deserted..... sigh.. i guess most of the players have played there yesterday.

    By the way i dun really recognise you but if you see me next time, we can discuss abt the game again :) ...


    gd day!!





    When the chill of winter comes to hell, only the fittest resist the Bell. - Navy SEAL
     
  15. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    Re: VF4 at bugis Lion stuff

    went down bugis yesterday. I think I have VF4 overload. Played everyday for the past week. Promised my GF not to play for the next week... sigh...

    Saw alucard yesterday. His Lau/Akira/Jacky are all pretty good err.. esp. his Akira, looks really nice with all the Taiwan step and modified moves. Pinkgirl is not bad too, for a gal :) Didn't meet kiat though. Met his friend. dunno his name, used Wolf, not bad too. There were quite a lot of people in fact on Sat and all are pretty good including ME :) too bad you missed all of them.

    I think I should stick to Lion and perfect him. stop playing Wolf. But it is sooo nice to crouch throw someone out of his tech roll :) it is pretty easy once you get used to it. The idea is do it EARLY. it is very easy to practise vs CPU.

    Back to Lion.
    His sabaki. I think the info on Virtuaproject is correct. The sabaki do not reverse knee and middle P. Well, you can't have everything. It is a Strong move as the damage potential is very high.

    Lion P K G looks faster than P as he doesn't move forward when throwing the P so the rumor about it being 2 frames faster is probably true. But you cannot do any normal P combos, ie you can only do single P. maybe useful if you want to interrupt. But as Lion doesn't move forward, shorter range than normal P.

    d/b P K SUCKS. definately cannot throw after a normal hit. In fact its recovery is really bad. Even if you hit, I think opponent recovers faster... ??

    I am having problems getting a stagger after doing kickflip throw, f,f k,k, CPU tech roll. I can't seem to punish a tech roll after doing a f,f k,k float. What should I do to get a stagger???
     
  16. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    Re: VF4 at bugis Lion stuff

    """But it is sooo nice to crouch throw someone out of his tech roll :) it is pretty easy once you get used to it. The idea is do it EARLY. it is very easy to practise vs CPU."""

    Hehe..that's true..the feeling is really great...even better when the opponent tries to avoid the low throw by standing up n u go for the GS instead~!

    Double whammy!~~





    <font color=red>~~~ ' IRC
    I Repeat Classes!/versus/images/icons/mad.gif~~~'
     
  17. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    Re: VF4 at bugis Lion stuff

    I don't think you can avoid the low throw by just standing up. The tech roll starts with one rolling to the side and then getting up. It is during this transition (when you stop rolling to the side and start to get up) when you get thrown. the tech roller get thrown in his tech roll animation.
     
  18. cdasher

    cdasher Member

    Re: VF4 at bugis Lion stuff

    Saw kiat late in the evening on sat and guess wat?..... almost everyone playing there had quite a HIGH CHANCE of beating him, if not thrashing him!!! I myself had a couple of decent wins against his sarah and wolf and that really boosted my confidence ALOT: )!!!! He seemed really tired and slow though, nowhere near as sharp as the kiat that thrash mi at AMK ......or am i getting better! HaHaHa!!! Guess even a good player has his offdays.
     
  19. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Re: VF4 at bugis Lion stuff

    What you're reporting is a typical PKG, a punch-kick combo that is cancelled with the guard button. See Yupa's post earlier about senbon nokku.

    So does that mean lion can now cancel his kick in the punch-kick combo? I thought he had a heelkick (the same kick you see when Lau or Pai presses P,K)..
    traditionally, those canned be cancelled, only straight kicks like Jacky's standing high kick. Also, does Lion's standing high kick look different now? Is it no longer the ugly bent-knee kick?

    Good to see some of lion's useful moves are counterable, Chibita almost makes him look cheap. (not really though)


    /versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>~~~ Don't make me rape you with a sharp stick ~~~/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>
     
  20. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    Re: VF4 at bugis Lion stuff

    NO. I know a senbon. I typed P plus K plus G. somehow this board removes all my plus signs. I am getting irritated with the technical problems of this board. Can we move to somewhere better, a board that works on netscape for example... then again maybe not.
     

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