Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by adamYUKI, Nov 15, 2001.

  1. adamYUKI

    adamYUKI Well-Known Member

    What would you guys think of a VF4 DVD listing the storyline of each character, a combos section (showing MC combo's, Non MC, and character specfic combos, wall combo's etc.), a gameplay section (showing video's downloaded from the Internet, and live gameplay from the states in NYC), and a people section showing the different people scattered across the globe that play VF4?

    Such a DVD would cost $20 each, I would have to produce at least 100 of them to send it to a factory to be copied at a low enough cost. Would people pay $20 for a DVD like this?

  2. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    I think there's already something like this called the VF archive, except you're getting a helluva lot more for only the cost of shipping...

    If you have the time and equipment to make your own videos of VF4 gameplay/combos, why not just go ahead and do it and put it on the computer for free distribution around the internet?
  3. Big Dipper

    Big Dipper Well-Known Member

    anything featuring NYC players and I'm a buyer. Put me down for one.
  4. adamYUKI

    adamYUKI Well-Known Member

    No its not meant to be an archive, its meant to be more like a DVD, a rolling movie that isn't too interactive, other than selecting a track and hitting play, then listening and watching.

    I'd like to do something like this over the internet, but with spoken audio, tons of combo's for every character it would amount to the number of movies on tbzone which isn't very convienient, if I use DVD I wouldn't have to compress at all, and you can watch everything in full screen on your TV without pausing :)

  5. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Re: a non-interactive movie -

    1. Non interactive + limited content gets really boring after a while. I wouldn't pay 20 bucks for something I might watch three times if it's really good and then never again.

    2. The VFA is not only getting you content that's interactive, it's getting you an assload of it. It'll take a long time before you get bored of it. And the only effort you need to make is a few mouseclicks to navigate, BFD.

    3. Rather than pressing costly DVD's, have you heard of "Autorun"? It allows you to stick a CD in the CDROM drive and have it automatically start a program or movie or whatever. Make a 700 meg movie, stick it on a CD, put in the little autorun program/ini file, and there ya go. Someone slides a CD into their computer and leans back and watches, no effort needed. And the CD costs a fraction of what the DVD does.

    I don't dislike your idea, I just don't think you need to do it in this format and charge 20 bucks for it. You'll never get the 100 orders you need to make it cost effective. Back in the day we distributed movies on VHS cassettes and it was a pain in the ass. Now we can burn them onto CD's. You might as well do that, not all of us have DVD players in their PC (or a PS2)... and not all of us want to blow 20 bucks on a VF video. But I bet anyone reading this forum has a CDROM.

    PS: I hate to sound cynical, but if you had any possible hope of making money with this idea, toss that shit out the window. Do it for the love of the game or don't bother.
  6. adamYUKI

    adamYUKI Well-Known Member

    I had hoped you wouldn't say anything like that. I spend more hours digitizing and putting together movies (during the VF3 era that is) than anyone else on this board or any other board. I have created by sheer number the largest number of movie files, while some just fluff, others were stars and examples of good video compositions in the GE tradition.

    The time it would take me to create such a DVD for the sheer satisfaction of readers of this board to own greatly exceeds $20 a DVD.

    $20x100 copies = $2,000 subtract cost to press the DVD's about $7-8 each printed and the cost of shipping and packaging (printed DVD case and insert) add another $5-7 and I may end up with something like $5 a copy surplus. My time alone is MUCH more that $2000 to produce something like this.

    It's an insult to even try and think I would make money with something like this. Creating a VF4 DVD is like making a beat tribe tape, very elegant and is a collectable. I thought of putting the VF4 community into a presentable format.

    On the idea of a 700MB CD-R going around, thats like 20-30 min of Mpeg-4 footage. A DVD is what is required to get the best out of it for a non-computer home format.

    This DVD is not meant to compete with the archive at all either, so why recreate something else for the computer?

    If the issue is something like you dont have a DVD player, i'm sure I could accomodate by shipping something out on VHS similar to Beat Tribe tapes.

  7. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Hey Andy, sign me up for one!!
  8. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Sorry to imply you were a moneygrubber. I understand that this is something that would cost money to produce if you chose to go the DVD route. Still, you just said you might get 5 bucks a copy surplus, and you're expecting 100 copies for this to work. That's 500 bucks pure profit that you want to get paid for playing VF and capping it to a disc? You're kidding right? Your time is worth something, sure, but "much more than 2000 dollars to produce something like this"? That sounds arrogant. Making something like this is not like shovelling coal or flipping burgers. It's gotta be fun or else you wouldn't have bothered.

    Also, I understand that this is not something to compete with the VFA, I just want to use the VFA as an example of something that can be mass produced at a low cost. I think your estimate for 20-30 mins per 700 megs is low.
    A typical TBZone movie is a bit better than 6 seconds per meg using the best stuff available. Which makes a one minute movie about ten megs. Which makes 700 megs worth about 70 minutes, a fairly substantial tape. But you're talking a bigger viewing window, so double the window and you still be able to get 35 minutes onto a nice viewing area. That's probably a worst case scenario ... I dunno how movie encoding works but I think that doubling screen size doesn't necessarily double the megs. Considering that a typical match is 1:30 at the longest, that's a pretty decent movie, and there's no reason you can't make this two 50 cent CD's rather than one 20 dollar DVD. So what if I have to swap discs once? I'll live. Put all the combos and storyline on one disc and all the matches on the other.
    Again, I think 100 orders is just damned unrealistic, and 20 dollars a pop ... it's not an unreasonable amount to ask for this sort of thing, it's just more than I think most people are willing to commit to a vf match disc. There are already free match and combo movies on the net. Of course, I'm coming from the perspective of someone who is living in Virtua Poverty and has no expendible income.
  9. adamYUKI

    adamYUKI Well-Known Member

    Creed let me give you an idea of the time it takes to make a video, for me to capture, edit and add sounds/effects plus trasitions, takes me nearly 30 minutes for a 45-second to 1minute clip. I'm no slouch either when it comes to computer work too. A 1 1/2 - 2 hour DVD would take two workstations, pro-capture equipment and other resources that I would have to use. A $5 surplus (and maybe is the keyword) would be to insure that I could deliver the product without having to charge people an additional fee if there happens to be additional costs.

    Yes its fun, but its still gonna take me over 100hours to deliver in a timely fashion and alot of it is just grunt work capturing, editing, creating menu systems for the DVD etc.

  10. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Hi Andy,

    Your intentions are appreciated and if you did make such a thing, I'd definitely lend you my support by buying into it.

    However, I don't know if you can make the distribution of 100+ to meet a decent quota with DVD Burning Services. But that could just be my skepticism.

    You have my support. But I can only hope you have a lot more support. It would be an interesting pursuit anyways, don't know what the ethical/business implications of the project would be though.

  11. Fishie

    Fishie Well-Known Member

    You have my support .
    CreeD sounds like an angry little bitch on this one .
  12. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    You just gave me a great explanation of why making a DVD is such a pain in the ass. We AGREE ON THIS POINT.
    YES, 20 dollars is not an unreasonable amount to ask for something like this.
    NO, I personally would not spend 20 dollars on one VF movie.

    Let's spell it all out:

    1. Are costly to make
    2. Need special equipment.
    3. Need loads of time and effort put into special editing and splicing software on powerful machines.
    4. Take a longass time to burn.
    5. Will put the end price above what the average VFer is willing to pay for this sort of information, no matter how nicely packaged.
    6. Require the purchaser to have a DVD player.

    And you're saying that five bucks is covering unforeseen costs? Sheit.

    1. Are cheap as hell
    2. Require a CDR, which is now pretty much a standard in new PC's (and if it isn't, I still bet you've got one or could afford one)
    3. Use existing freeware that's all over the net for burning/splicing/editing.
    4. Take about 6 minutes to burn 1 disc at 12x
    5. Could be distributed for the cost of shipping + the cost of a CD. Throw in the five bucks if you want.
    6. Exists in a format that would allow people with high bandwidth to download from one of the three known FTP sites that are willing to host VF related material, meaning this could be made available to people for free if they're willing to wait through a long download.
    7. Require only a CDROM on the purchaser's part, should they order it by mail.

    The only gain from making a DVD is that it's gonna be higher resolution/have a bigger viewing area! That's it! There are no other advantages to having the DVD!&$%@!#%$*!*#!

    And for that you'd rather do this time consuming, costly process?
    Again, nobody DOESN'T want new VF4 material, my only argument is that putting it on a DVD is a pain in the ass. Put your best shit on 1 or 2 CDs and save both of us some time, money and hassle.
  13. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Creed, why don't you take it easy a little bit. Go outside. Breathe in some fresh air. Have a Maine lobster. Life is good, right?
  14. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    **I have created by sheer number the largest number of movie files, while some just fluff, others were stars and examples of good video compositions in the GE tradition.**

    Uh...I don't think so, Tex. Unless you're counting stuff you've made but never uploaded, I only have 10 movies by you...GE beats you on that number by +46 movies and captures.
  15. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    What, a person making perfectly valid points is an indication that he needs to get out?

    And no, life isn't necessarily good. Some would say life is like trying to lick honey off of thorns. And I would say that you're one of those thorns, and really goddamn big one at that, gutter filth that you are.

    I know this really isn't my argument but I think the attitude you exude in a post like this is far more disgusting and obnoxious than the worst of my insult and curse laden posts.
  16. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Christ, yes, what a wonderful fucking suggestion. I'm sure I'll be a much perkier human with enough encouragement from ass9.

    If you meant to make a point, you failed, as usual.
    If your intent was to piss me off, you failed. A little swearing should not impress you so much.
    If you meant to calm anyone down, you failed. Had I been genuinely excited about any of this, you'd have merely irritated me further.
    Time and again you imply people need to get out more on this board, but the total number of posts you have outweighs mine by quite a bit, and usually you fail to say anything worthwhile or interesting. Simply by deciding to post you fuck up an entirely on-topic thread, as you've fucked up this one. Then when you make the post, there's no information, just an uninformed opinion. When you make a halfassed attempt to be helpful, you're not. It's misinformation and confuses people who can't decipher your bullshit version of reality. If you have valid information to contribute, you put it out two months late and throw in shit like "8 stance" just to ensure that it's not helpful or comprehensible.

    Once again, you chip in your two cents and it isn't even worth that.

    Get the fuck out of this thread, two posts is enough wasted time. If you think you have an original point about this VF DVD idea, by all means...

    otherwise, don't let the fact that you were shown up once again cause you to childishly seek out my posts and give me shit. It won't work. Like you said, I have all sorts of time on my hands. In fact, why not confine your offtopic tripe to private messages? Hundreds of regular readers won't need to waste their OWN precious time trying to sift through bullshit to find something worth reading in a thread.
  17. Triple Lei

    Triple Lei Well-Known Member

    Well, I'm interested.

    I'm interested in that and the VFA... gimme gimme gimme!
  18. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Re: Well, I'm interested.

    send me a private message by clicking on my name and then clicking the 'send private message' option on the bottom left... include your name and address and I'll get back to you with an estimate on how much shipping will be (this is all for the VFA)...
  19. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    I guess life is not good, huh.
  20. adamYUKI

    adamYUKI Well-Known Member

    The only gain from making a DVD is that it's gonna be higher resolution/have a bigger viewing area! That's it! There are no other advantages to having the DVD!&$%@!#%$*!*#!

    I guess I cant disagree with you there, but that is the point of having a DVD in place of a VCD in the first place, its the best quality you can possibly get right now.

    What I can do when the final product is complete is offer a stripped down VCD version which should play fine on most home computers and DVD players that support VCD and CDR's.

    Im not saying theres no reason not to justify making a lighter version of this on a CD-R or as a VCD. Just to offer the best quality of work that I the producer is creating would have to be on DVD. Remember for all the work it would take, I would want the viewers to have the best possible experience.


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