vf4 evo AI training

Discussion in 'Console' started by social_ruin, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. social_ruin

    social_ruin Well-Known Member

    Did anyone here ever train an AI that was actually effective/tough to beat? That was good at TE's and ETEG's, etc, etc? I would always just fuck around with trying to make an aoi/akira who blocked, but didn't know the game at all at the time. So i was wondering if anyone trained a really tough AI, and how it was accomplished.
     
  2. KingofcarnageVF

    KingofcarnageVF Well-Known Member

    It was VF4 not Evo. What you do is train your AI by showing it only the techniques that you want it to see. Dont let it see mistakes cause this will make it vulnerable. You cant however teach it to crouch dash. I made a Jacky AI that was a true pain in the ass, dmpk 2p monster with energy draining setups. I would fight him for hours and he'd have me so pissed that I didnt want to fight other humans. Just him.
     
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  3. shadowmaster

    shadowmaster Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    animelord79
    XBL:
    shadoolord1979
    I had a decent AI and I often challenged people to beat it before they could challenge me in VF4. Oddly enough It beat most of the people it fought and kept me on my toes and functioned as the best meter for my game that I will ever have, most of the time I beat it but it fought hard enough to beat me if I was just going on Autopilot without thinking about game too much. This mode really deserves a comeback though.
     
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  4. smb

    smb Well-Known Member

    KoC, that cracked me up [​IMG]
     
  5. Mlai

    Mlai Well-Known Member

    A mode as innovative as this, I can understand not being in the POS PS3 VF5. But why wasn't it in VF4evo?!??

    I owned PS2 VF4evo... its AI was nice, but I never experienced this degree of awesome... ;o;
     
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  6. Neonomide

    Neonomide Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Neonomide
    Interesting, king & shadow.

    Did you have clear patterns of teaching it, are there better or worse chars etc ?

    VF 4 looks crap witn my setup but the AI mode is unique to it. It might be fun to get back to it.
     
  7. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    Does anybody know why they never brought back AI training partner, or AI mode. In reason why they didn't put it in VF4 EVO? Was it ever in any of the arcade versions of VF?:confused:
     
  8. smbhax

    smbhax Active Member

    PSN:
    smbhax
    Probably simply because they didn't see enough demand for it.

    I love VF4 AI mode stuff, but I never heard of many other people who did. It's almost entirely unstructured, and not something you can just list as a bullet point to people looking for structured things to do in single player. And a lot of it is non-fighting-time, for the player at least.

    It looks like they figured it was a better use of their development time to flesh out Kumite into Quest Mode, which is *definitely* something you can use as a selling point for single player gameplay.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
    masterpo likes this.
  9. smbhax

    smbhax Active Member

    PSN:
    smbhax
    I don't recall seeing any trace of it in the YouTube videos I've seen of the arcade versions of 4 or 4 Evo, or Final Tuned--although my viewing of those has not been exhaustive.

    The closest I've seen is glimpses of a single-player mode in arcade versions of Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown that puts you up against the teams of customized AIs found in the "Special Sparring" mode in the console releases.

    I would love to find information on the single-player modes in the arcade VF5FS--because glimpses I've seen of the interface make it look like there are a number of them--but haven't had any luck so far.
     
  10. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    Good points, I understand them and mostly agree.

    But here's the thing, sometime you don't do things based on current demand, you do things based on future demand.

    In certain Engineering disciplines there are two basic approaches to building things:

    1. Find out what people want, then build it.

    2. Build something good and people will eventually want it.


    The first approach assumes people know what they want in the first place. As you probably know, people don't always know what they want or even what they like, in some cases it takes time for this to be revealed.

    In the second case, you risk money and time up front and it may take a while for it to catch on, but if the thing you've built is good, you've done right thing, if not for this generation then for the next.


    The 1rst approach is Market Driven obviously, the second approach is more purist from an engineering point of view.

    The fact is VF4 AI Training mode was innovative. No one has replicated it. Games are just now trying to do something similar. For instance Tekken's latest patch trying to give advice based on your replays;) VF was doing this long before anybody thought that advice had any value in a fighting game. VF4 had advice and a trainable AI sparring partner. And the AI could also be sent into matches, which could be recorded and replayed for study and son on.

    You're right, many players didn't get it at the time, but I fuckn bet you they'd understand the value of it now:holla: VF4's Advice and trainable AI sparring partner was way ahead of its time.

    Think about all of the games that are just now trying to give you advanced features in the dojo to record moves, and setups with the training dummy, and try to give advice based on how you interact or on replays. They are just now doing it in 2020. VF had all the way back in VF4:eek:

    I understand profit margins, yada yada. But sometimes you do things for innovation's sake, sometimes you have to be the pioneer that leads the way for everyone else. I know this is altruistic but, leaders lead:cool: And AM2.VF is quintessential leader in 3D fighting games.

    It'll be a shame for Tekken or DOA to end up getting the credit for creating a trainable AI when they finally realize that is the way to go:(
     
  11. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member

    I agree. That would suck.
     
  12. MDog

    MDog Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    tehmarcerer
    XBL:
    tehmarcerer
    Wasn't the reason that no-one replicated a bunch of the VF4 training mode features because SEGA patented them
     
  13. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    The feature was so advanced, unusual, and unfamiliar at the time, that many players did not know what to do with it, and didn't exploreel it. Of course now with all of the frame counting, match analysis, and all of the time spent recording the training dummy in the dojo, a trainable AI partner would be a big deal these days. In 2002 AM2 and VF were just way way ahead of its time.

    But fortunately some of us still have VF4 and its fun working with the trainable AI and it does help reinforce the fundamentals among other things.
     
  14. smbhax

    smbhax Active Member

    PSN:
    smbhax
    Yeah, being ahead of your time doesn't always pay off for the one who did it. They *were* at least able to use some of that AI work in Quest Mode and Special Sparring stuff later, plus their AI from 4 on forward was really in a class by itself.

    And I guess Tekken 7 copied some of the superficial aspects of Quest Mode for their "Treasure Battle" mode--but when I search about Treasure Battle online all I find is players complaining about AI problems. ; )
     
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  15. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    Tekken's Advice From Replays mode that came with patch 3.21 Is a spin off of the Advice mode that was part of VF4, and VF4 EVO. Check out the advice that was given to the player in those games.

    VF4 and VF4 evo gave you advice on missed opportunities,etc, all to make your game play better and to increase your winning percentage, Tekken Advice on Replays is just a variation on that theme. And VF did it first all the way back in 2002.
     
  16. smbhax

    smbhax Active Member

    PSN:
    smbhax
    YEah, I tend to overlook the advice thing. I think part of that is because I feel like it's actually too advanced for me to try to take it up yet, and I'm still just trying to work out even more basic stuff.

    The other part might be that the advice, at least in 4, is tucked away way down in the Status section of Data File or whatever--so you really have to go hunting for it. If they had for instance given out single chunks of it at a time on load screens between Kumite matches as well, that could have been a good way to get it in front of players in a relatively digestible form.
     
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  17. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    That's true, it was tucked away and Sega didn't make a big deal about it back then. But wow ppl would be appreciative of that feature in VF5FS if they had it now.

    You also right in the sense that when you're just learning even the advice can seem advanced. The terminology that is used many new comers don't know yet. So it is a feature that you only appreciate after you learned the basics and start to feel comfortable with the game.

    But because VF was the first to do it back in 2002, they might not have known where to really put it in the menus. It was so new, and so different, unlike anything anyone had done before that they stuck it where it was convenient. And don't forget your personal profile data file was a big deal back in those days. So it wasn't as obscure as it seems today.
     
  18. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member

    Wow! When you look back, Sega and AM2 really did alot of cool advanced, innovative stuff, especially for fighting games. It's sad that people, take those innovations and accomplishments for granted, or choose to ignore them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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