VF4 Evo expectations?

I disagree. He really needs this throw....reeeaally. If anything I believe it was for the best that he was "toned" down in VF4. You really have to think with Kage, it's not like: "here I am! do it now!!! throw me!! com' on!!"

But now I'm curious. Kage players what are your views on this?

 

i agree, if they take Kage's TFT away he will loose his edge, without it he will become quite a weak character, so i think it's only fair that he keeps this move.

 

Exactly. If they mess with the TFT in EVO, I simply won't play him in that version, even though he's my main character. I'll just have to hope that they don't screw over Shun in the same manner.

 

As far as I could tell, it's still there, so don't worry.

I'm trying to learn Kage myself. I do find him a bit difficult to get used to.

 

Well. I would really love to see the changes made to Shun /versus/images/icons/smile.gif Any news on him ?

 

From what I've seen, Shun pretty much plays the same. He does have some new moves though, which I think are endings of combos. I could be wrong, but I think they've expanded his +. I'll try to play him this weekend and find out.

 

I'm a beginner starting with kage not too long ago. Here is what I think.

Like woft's GS, TFT is kage's signiture move. They are about the same in terms of function. TFTt shouldn't be taken away because it's powerful. It is a part of strategy in the gameplay to give him an edge when he lack speed and power at the same time (comparing to pai and jeffry).

Above all, it's a part of the "cool" factor that draws people to the game. /versus/images/icons/ooo.gif

 

While I hate getting ringed out w/ it, I'm glad it's there. You know the n00bs are always going for that one, so it's easy to escape. Wolf's I think takes off a bit too much damage, but that's me.

As for kage lacking strength & speed -- yer pretty much right -- he's right in the middle. However, he's got what I consider the best evasive attack in the game.

 

Thanks for agreeing, GaijinPunch.

I don't know if he really has the best evadsive attack, tho.

As for expectations of VF4Evo, I want new moves for Aoi, and Shun. Well, Aoi has always set herself apart w/ her ground throw and tons of reversals. I think she can use more ground throws but escapable. Shun doesn't look drunk to me anymore. He need to look more drunk or something that can draw more ppl to use him

To me, Aoi is a harder character to pickup on than Shun. That's just me.

 

You should be happy w/ both characters -- see my other posts. Shun does look more like a drunken fool now. Hopefully Sega will do some type of promotion where all the C-Chaps crew plays w/ the charcters. SHU's Shun is amazing. He showed me some new stuff, but I couldn't figure them out.

Shun is still considered an advanced character b/c he does so little damage. He's also only got 3 throws to escape (, and ). He's also only got a couple of good mid attacks, and one is a wind-up. When you're playing against Jacky or someone like Wolf, he gets hard to use.

Aoi I think is easier, as she can G-cancel so much. You should really infuse that in your game -- it makes a HELL of a difference. I bitch-slapped a friends jacky like 3-4 times in a row w/ her the other day, and he's pretty strong. Definitely has more experience than me.

 

Re: You kidding?

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If AM2 ever removes Kage's TFT, I don't think anybody will play him again

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely that's a great exaggeration. Kage has loads of strong techniques and evasive manoeuvres (I've experienced them first hand via talented players). And with the <font color="blue">Jumonji</font color> Stance I find his ground game to be difficult to fight against. His throws are strong and plentiful. The TFT would only be missed because it's his trademark signature move, he has more then enough variety in that department.

You'd have to be a pretty shallow player to ditch a character over a throw when they weren't even a grappler character to begin with (now if Wolf or Jeffery lost their GS or Splash Mountain respectively then that would be a crime). It's quite possible for Kage users to win a match without touching the TFT, those who can't obviously place too much faith in it and haven't thought of other strategies. Yes the TFT allows for a great range of combos but it wouldn't cripple Kage as much as loosing the MT stance would to Vanessa.

Think outside the box for a minute.

 

Re: You kidding?

One reason I don't play more Kage is that I'm terrible with his move. From the right, I can get it about 4 out of 5. From the left, I'm lucky to get it once.

Also, while he has some nice moves when turned-around, I feel he's left WAY open. I'm a Lion player, who is much quicker when turned around. Again, this is all personal stuff.

 

Re: You kidding?

Sure I know what you mean GaijinPunch. He has a lot of priority, hard to block/deceptive moves so when he's caught out he should pay for it. Otherwise there'd be a serious balance issue. Imagine, decent strength and speed, arguably the most agile character, has sabaki, inashi, counters and an effective support stance (<font color="blue">Jumonji</font color>) plus, the most advantageous and abusive throw in the game (no contest).

Now if you combined that with fast recovery you'd have a b**** of a cheesy character. Make him a heavy weight and he'd easily replace Dural in my opinion. He's fine the way he is (as an opponent) with the exception of the TFT...

 

Re: You kidding?

kage may have some strong attacks but note that most of kage's strong attack takes some time for kage to recover so if it misses kage gets beat down, so why would it be exaggerating, kage may have a lot in his command list but did you ever think that maybe a lot of them are impractical and risky, because of its impractilcality of moves he's somewhat predictable, that's how he was balanced with the TFT lets say for example kage does + the and it was evaded or blocked, then he's open to any kind of attack the opponent has, as for jumonji stance the only thing i really like about it is that i can roll sideways and its inashi and sabaki capabilities, but when in this stance you lose mobility as if he wasnt slow enough and rolling side ways also has its disadantages. and TFT is not just a signature move sega wouldnt put it there because it looks good its part of the balance i mean the highest damage i've made with a TFT combo is 91 pts. (its in one of the trheads i made) and if my memory is correct akira has a combo way over 100, first of all TFT alone anly has 40 pts at the most so if i fail to do the combo right i'm not gonna do that big a damage as for its wall ring out capabilities, well what can i say if your playing against a kage with low walls on the stage and he's close to a wall well why dont you get away from that wall or attack low so there's no chance to get thrown out, its as simple as that. TFT as as valuable to kage as a SPoD to akira, i mean would a player say i wish they'd take out akira's spod, and if someone did others would say it should stay, so lets just leave the TFT alone if sega really wanted to take away that move they would've done that on VF4, bottom line kage needs it like every other character needs theirs.

 

Re: You kidding?

WWWAAAHHHHHH WWAAHHHHH WWAHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Stay inside the box and stop whining. It's no different than any other powerful throw. Kage has always been a major throwing character, and the TFT is very different in that the damage is not guaranteed. If the player fucks up the TFT followup he's left holding his dick. The better player gets the better followups - it rewards skill.

And why, exactly, would it be a crime if the GS or the XPD were removed, but not the TFT? That's utter and complete horseshit, dude, and you know it. It's just as much of a signature move as those others.

 

Re: You kidding?

I wouldn't say he was a major throwing character, he has good throws but apart from +,+ or + The most throws I see by a great margin are the TFT. I can't remember the last time I saw + or the Izuna Drop (++) or his + for that matter. First chance my opponents have had I've found myself in the air. Yes, I do expect it but I don't always escape by quite a margin. That's not the Kage users problem though, I'm near enough the fence for a ringout.

Yes I understand completely that getting the most out TFT takes skill, unfortunately my local has two people (off the top of my head UKguy and Ryan Heart) who I guarantee will get the most out of the throw 99% of the time, which will screw my Sarah at any stage of the match.

GS and the XPD (Crucifix Pile Driver?) are key to both grapplers as their majority of damage is most often than not produced through their throws (though Wolf is more versatile). One less throw is one less technique that fast characters can't dodge and must know the correct command to escape from. I've said before that I think Kage's ground game is strong. You don't have to use TFT to win nor must you keep in the back of your mind to throw any chance you get as you would were you using a grappler as he has enough good techniques to not have to rely on throws more than any other non grappler.

I don't know, if the ringout potential wasn't so strong and you were still able to get in good combos while your opponent floated I would be fine with that (changing the animation or something). It burns me when I've got the lead only to see it all disappear in a puff of smoke and find myself near or out of the ring to a player I could have beaten but was rinsed because he got one throw on me. It's something I need to work harder on (throw escape reactions) but it hurts more than having your move countered when you end up outside the ring with 50% of your life intact still ready to win.

Make of that what you will. "Think outside the box..." Yeah, I'll buy that as being snobbish but saying you'd drop a character if he lost one strong technique (welcome to the world of Sarah Bryant mate) is weak and unispired.

 

Re: You kidding?

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i mean would a player say i wish they'd take out akira's spod

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That can be blocked. No complaints there.

 

Re: You kidding?

It doesn't surprise me that somebody would drop Kage if they took away his TFT (one of the most abused moves in VF history). Aren't all Kage players TFT whores? I find it hypocritical people hate on Jacky only to pick Kage and use their super l337 TFT skills and think Kage is SO interesting. Yawn. This is reason I'll pick Brad before him not even seeing 10 of Brad's moves and with the Muay Thai style being done to death. Hell, it's probably the reason they took out Taka. Random Kage player back VF3 era: "What my TFT combos don't work on him? He's so boring to fight against."

Oh well,that's the end of my rant. I guess I'm irked that Jacky loses his elbow/heel kick (the move that defines the character boring as it may be) but the TFT lives on. Is there a Kage haters fan club? If not maybe I'll start one. How about the Ka-Gay Bashers?

 

Re: You kidding?

Funny you guys mention that. During the VF Evo testing today, there was a pretty damn good Kage. I was uing my Lion. He had beaten up many before me. So I go in, and I'm giving him a ROMPING, nickel-&-diming my way to victory. Then, of course, TFT -> ringout. Bastard. After that, he gave me no chance, just one hit, throw, another hit, throw, pounce. Done. Pissed me off.

Being all made, I make my way to Ver. C area, where there's a Ha-oh Kage w/ over 5000 wins. Pretty major player (Shinjuku Shita P+K Ed). And, I must say, I'm proud of myself. Last time he takes a 5-dan Lion for granted. Anyways, back to the point. I think he WAS waiting to TFT me out, as he stuck by the fence, but saw I wasn't going for it. As such, he never even tried.

I would still say Lau's elbow is the most abused move in the game. Boy, this is FUN -- let's see how many times I can do the same move on one round.

 

Re: You kidding?

Adio...throw escape! When I play you I know I can TFT all day. Against the like of players who have better defence skills I have to swith to b,f+P+G or uf+P+G to punish the ETE.

Kage is the weakest he has ever been, sheesh he was a monster in TB! Concentrate less on show-offy combos are more on effective flow-charts and better defensive styles. Sarah is a brutal character, up there with Jacky, Akira and Lau imo.

C u down casino for some TFT escape lessons? /versus/images/icons/wink.gif