VF4 Evolution Goh Thread

Re: Random Goh Gold

Hey nycat, beyond those tips, I'd add that a lot of winning with goh involves keeping the opponent zoned in The Bad Place of 50/50 guessing games. I don't have any goh vs pai tricks specifically - but once you have successfully landed a knockdown or throw, you can keep the opponent down by mixing up stuff like f+P+K,P or throws. When I see the opponent tech roll, I dash forward and then enter f+P+K... if I think they will get up and attack/guard low. If I'm right then I continue by pressing P for another knockdown. If I'm wrong and the f+P+K is blocked/dodged, ... well you can crouch dash backwards, you can cut loose with the second punch anyway after a short delay, or you can hope they'll be so scared of the second punch that they'll just sit there and guard (in which case you throw).

After a few of the f+P+K,P's ... If you're fairly sure the opponent has been scared enough to TR and then guard/dodge... try for df, df+P+G. It's an easy motion you can't screw up, and with the guaranteed df+P gives good damage.

Other general tactics:
The f+P game - f+P is a standard elbow-type move, the second punch hits mid and forces crouch. Do the first f+P, then mix between
1. Do the second P with no delay right after, if the opponent tried something it connects and forces crouch, leading into another guessing game.
2. Do the second f+P after a small delay, hoping to bait them into an attack which then leads to an interrupt with the second P.
3. Don't do the second hit. If the opponent has seen it enough times they'll just stand and guard, and you can just do a throw.

Both the f+P+K and f+P guessing games are similar, but the f+P+K guessing game is riskier and nets a knockdown for the second hit, while the f+P game just gives you a small chunk of damage for the second hit (but it creates another guessing game). The guessing game is essentially
1. Low throw
2. High throw
3. Attack.

1. Works if the opponent does nothing/holds the guard button. You can low throw them before they fully rise.
2. If the opponent dodges, their crouch state is cancelled instantly and a low throw attempt will miss. Dodges will also avoid option 3, attack. So if your opponent smartens up and does this, try for a 270 throw or whatever else you have.
3. Is a little tricky and depends on whether or not your second P interrupted the opponent. If it did, and they seem likely to try to regain the advantage by attacking, your low punch will beat their low punch (or any other attack) and trying for another f+P may be successful depending on how quickly they react and what kind of attack they try to use. I don't have a sure bit of advice for what to do if the second f+P hits and you're not sure if you want to gamble on another attack. You may want to try b,df+P - if they low punch, this sabakis it. If they ended up guarding or doing something else, you may still connect with it for a small chunk of damage.

Wish I could write more, but my experience with goh is limited and movies of strong goh play are scarce.

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

Goh seems to have one strange combo that works only for pai (or maybe all lightweights, haven't tried Aoi).
b,f+p > p > d+p+k > df+p+g

The d+p+k changes pai's position in mid air from head away to head towards you which I thought was odd..giving you a nasy looking ground throw.

Another lightweight combo ( think this might have been posted)

b+p+k then immediately k+g which clips them and sends them spinning which you can dash forward and follow up with a ground throw. looks pretty elite if you pull it off.

b+p+k, > p > df,df, f+pk (quickly) .

If you know your opponent will tech roll when he lands,

b+p+k,, > p > b, f+p >dash forward > U or D K+G (depending which way your oppoenet usually tr's) Its an ego crusher.

Thats all I could find so far..

 

ReGoh thoughts from Canada

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
... we almost exclusively play Goh vs Pai, respectively. If Eric's using Pai f+K+G a lot, i'd start changing your timing for closing in that gap, blocking the f+K+G and throwing him - it's a throw counterable move. If he's using ff+K+G, then you gotta also start blocking that and making note of what he'll do next. If he does the TT K, you can easily block that and throw him there too. Use Goh's charge up with good timing, getting it to hit as Eric's f+K+G whiffs...

[/ QUOTE ] Eric is an accomplished Pai player, but currently he is not using move that results in back turned finish. Eric is employing <font color="white"> borg</font color> <font color="red"> *</font color> like distance judgement and mind numbing timing to consistantly nail his opposition. To his credit he rarely whiffs; but I will now be better prepared as I am keen to employ GOH's basket of throws. Not to appear totally lame; I will also study Pai Chan movelist and EVO discussions found here at <font color="orange"> VFDC</font color> so I may more fully participate in future Pai vs. GOH discussions. (Hint for new peeps to this site: go to home and click on left frame Pai link under VF4 section header). thx agn <font color="brown"> LLanfair.</font color> Andy So has the single most dangerous and bold Pai I have ever encountered. He would enjoy our Gotham VF EVO Battles on Saturday morning without a doubt. I hear he is very busy and I have sadly lost contact so IF you know CrewNY get a message to him. In a few weeks I will bring digi camera and post our battles. I have taken a second job of driviing a taxi for the holiday season so I will not be able to play for the next several weeks. I hope to make our sensei happy with my study and my fellow combatants miserable. <font color="black"> Stomp *grumble* </font color> One final note on Eric's Pai: he consistantly outguessed me and reversed way too many of my attacks. <font color="red">* </font color> copyright <font color="yellow"> BigCat</font color>

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

Regarding the If the 2nd hit is a counter it gives +5 which means that is uninteruptable
I agree about the other options though

(2nd hit is a counter)
1/
2/Throw
3/Low Throw
4/ / () / / just because they are safe if blocked

Ona normal hit will beat anything except their for which I suggest either + or let it whiff and Low Throw

Ok now my question + the elbow mid-punch sabaki

Could somebody try it against Lei-Fei's and tell me if it sabaki's it
also Vanessa's ws wolf

Regarding vs. Pai
You don't want to be at a distance because of the moves + and+ that you mentioned. I also don't think it is wise to approach with a long range attack like cos you are likely to get interupted . Once you are in closer becomes very useful as does ,Throws , , .
One thing you want to be careful of is her If I'm pretty certain they will go for it I use +,+ if I'm not so sure then I use

Hope this helps

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

If this was mentioned before, sorry; did you guys know Goh's catch throw is TE-able?

Spotlite

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

spot: we referring to f,f+P+G - the lunge forward up-end the opponent?
escapeable by f+P+G?
I can't help but wonder why - it feels like slow execution, maybe ...I dunno, 18 frames. No reason for it to work differently from the vast majority of catch throws.

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

yikes creed arent you supposed to be "enjoying" hawaii ??

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

After thirteen hours of touristy crap a day, I must unwind =)

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

Yeah, don't ask me why they did it, but they did. It's only 27 points as well, (even though it has some okay follow-ups).

Spotlite

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

that's odd. But I guess it's not the end of the world. If you land that throw, they probably were just standing and guarding anyway. It's 51 pts after the best (?) followup I think, which I guess sega feels is enough of a threat to make sure it can foiled by EDTEG.

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

Well I don't think it would get escaped by Dodge Throw Escape because of the slower execution time.

It has some good mind games after it like the or+ against the techroll and the old Low Throw out of the tech-roll or the floor grab if they fail to tech-roll

When I first arrived in Japan I lost over 1/2 and energy bar as a result of this Throw. I don't remember clearly but the guy did something like + , , floorgrab,floor hit()

I know you can tech-roll slams but the timing is hard and most likely if you get it right you aren't gonna react and eat the Low Throw as in the Green Book DVD

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

Unfortunately I discovered today that we have a rather shitty version of Evo in London.......

(counter) ---> you can guard the + everytime, the same for +

The only decent follow-ups on this Version of Evo are
+, or (stagger)---> mix-ups or Low Throw if they are not escaping.....

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

re: f+K (counter) b+P+K being blockable. You 100% sure you tested this perfectly? I ask because I remember reading that the knee stuns for like 26 frames, and b+P+K takes 26 frames to execute, so you absolutely cannot be even a tiny bit late with the timing.. you must commit to b+P+K and buffer it in during the knee's recovery basically. Also keep in mind that b+P+K charges, and if you press the buttons for longer than necessary it might charge the attack, which makes it come out slower.


Maybe what sort of move you MC alters how long it stuns the opponent? That'd be a first for VF... on the other hand, no other move in the game stuns quite like goh's knee from what I can see. The closest equivalent is wolf's charge P+K.

After f+P+K, P does the opponent at least slam to the floor from the second hit, so you can get a ground attack or ground throw?

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

I tested it with Ryan today after he kept blocking my +after the (counter) I wanted to see if it was my fault....mis-timing etc. and we could only hit +,

No it doesn't slam........ /versus/images/icons/frown.gif

When I was in Japan I used this combo(counter),+,,

It leaves them face down head towards so they were forced to neutral tech-roll and guess Low-Throw or (counter) again

This set-up helped me get to 9th Dan with Goh,my Goh game has really gone to peices since I returned to the UK

Oh I forgot you can do/+ after the+ but you have to do it towards the opponants stomach side,it guarantees a floor grab but it can be escaped.

compared to the ,+,,,+ which is almost 100 damage it is quite pathetic

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

so is this a version B fix do you think?
Doing the math... yes I can see why it'd be fixed.
knee = 45?
b+P+K = 16?
P = 9
P = 8
f+P+K = 10?
df+P = 12
Total damage = 100 /versus/images/icons/blush.gif
Or end in shrm instead of f+P+K - df+P for 93.. these numbers are guesswork but are probably close.

What about m-shoulder ram after knee MC, does it stagger, or knock down... and if it knocks down, is the float high enough to do more?

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

No I think this is like the Beta Test before version A I think

On ver B which is out in Japan they removed the "Ago kuzure" the type of crumple the knee is......I heard that the knee floats on counter in Ver B

Anyway the maths(counter) 30 + 25,9,8, +24 and if they don't tech then a floor grab attempt is guaranteed.

(counter)30,+(40) No okizeme is possible cos of the lag on +,

If the opponant is stupid then you can do (counter)++-->Tsukami,+ for 100 damage

Well I dunno but we may not even see ver B,or the enevitable C outside of Japan

Uk-Guy also reckons that Akira,s is uncounterable on the version we have. Haven't had a chance to test this yet though....

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

Did they really remove Ago Kuzure? I was looking at the AM2 site about the changes, and it just said that the recovery of Goh's knee has changed, and that if it hits the oppt in the back with a counter, they'll float.

There is a general note about Ago Kuzure in the overall changes, but it says "Ago Kuzure Kabe Hit-shinai yo ni shita", which seems to relate to Wall Hits and Ago Kuzure. Creed, BTW the other move that does Ago KD is Vanessa's FC Knee in OS. The other 2 special KD's in ver A are wolf's Knee and Aoi's b, d/f+P+K which give the TR'able stomach KD.

with regards to Goh's Knee (counter)- b+P+K both the perfect guide and green book list it as a true combo, so I think it probably is (in ver. A at least).

Arashi did a cool combo against CPU sarah while he was waiting for the other player to join: d/b+K+G, b+P, d+P+G. d/b+K+G was a counter, which knocks down. Looks like the b+P hit OTB actually, then slammed for the ground throw.

Spotlite

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

Ok, when I was in Japan I played version A and got to 9th Dan with Goh. After coming back to the UK I tried the Goh combo from the green book which I had been using in Japan and it didn't work,as I said they could block the+ or + follow-up after the + counter hit

We don't have VER.B in the UK!! In VER B Sega removed "Ago Kuzure" / "Chin crumple" from the game which means that Goh is a bit weaker in Ver B although the does launch probably for a reasonable juggle follow-up

In the Version that we have in the UK the gives Chin crumple but the frame advantage is less Maybe 18 frames so the only follow-ups are +, or

Oda Mudou told me that some combos don't work in the version that we have.....something after Jeffry's Stance in to hit Throw.....In our version you can do+ which gives the foot crumple from VF 4 Ver B and then + I'll ask him about the combos next time I see him then you can try them on your version of Evo and see for yourself.

I don't think Sega did this purpose unless in fact I was right in saying that we have a Beta-test version in UK and not a Ver A

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

Spotlite - Oh yeah...sorry it does say wall hit.......what it means is that you can't get Ago Kuzure after a wall hit.
I.E. wall hit Gives Ago Kuzure Ver A
The will knock down in VerB

 

Re: Random Goh Gold

Sounds iffy to me to say the least.
You sure it isnt the crappy sticks we ussualy get in the west?