VF4 Evolution Jeffry Thread

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by GaijinPunch, Jun 18, 2002.

  1. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Nothing to report yet. Only saw one or two Jeffry's playing, and they both did nothing new. In fact, one of them pretty much sucked.
     
  2. Mr. Noisy

    Mr. Noisy Well-Known Member

    I've heard some of his moves are weaken
     
  3. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Wouldn't be a bad idea -- I've found him too combo & throw-oriented due to his speed. There's not a huge Jeffry representation in Tokyo, and those that do use him, almost always go for throws, as they're so powerful.
     
  4. Akebono

    Akebono Well-Known Member

    Jefferys game is throws, and using select moves to get to the throws. Since jefferey has a throw in almost all the directions, option selecting against his throws can be a pain. Jeffry is one of those guys who isnt pretty, hes mean. He dosent need a whole lot but if you use him the right way, hes extremely dangerous.

    Gajin punch could you find out if Jeffry got a 270 throw(/versus/images/commands/U.gif/versus/images/commands/UB.gif/versus/images/commands/B.gif/versus/images/commands/DB.gif/versus/images/commands/D.gif/versus/images/commands/DF.gif/versus/images/commands/F.gif). Also could you find out if they added moves out of his(I like to call it) come here stance. Ohh yeah, and did they alter his pick up /versus/images/commands/D.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif at all. In version C, strugling out of it really limited it to the point where you just pounce instead of doing it.

    Thanks
     
  5. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Only one guy used Jeffry today. He was decent. The only thing I noticed was that he has a new two-hit (at least combo). Looked something like that bastard elbow of his, then back up w/ the fist -- something like that.

    Other than that, the guy was playing normal. Pouncing.
     
  6. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Some actual Evo jeffry information.

    from http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Spade/8227/evo/evo.html and translated with cafeglobe.

    The stuff I think I can tackle I'll post and I just won't mention the rest. So it'd be cool if someone else with Japanese powers takes a look at the site.
    <font color="brown"> the P itself -- a motion -- delicate -- change
    PP&#65306;On PP: -> it changes into inside. PPP and PP4P disappear. ..
    PPP+K+G&#65306;PPP+K+G: Also or [ this eyeball ]. The cooperation from P+K+G (SURETTO stance) is mentioned later.
    It is delicate, & unidentified whether it interrupts after PP. .. </font color>

    Basic punch animation changes slightly, and /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif is different. It... switches stance? /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif and /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/B.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif are gone. Unconfirmed: A smooth transition from /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif to the /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif threat stance?

    <font color="brown"> PK: Motion change. Cancellation is impossible.
    PKP: Probably it is on very best. It is incorporable also into an air combo. .. </font color>

    /versus/images/commands/p.gif,/versus/images/commands/k.gif looks different, cancellation is impossible ../versus/images/commands/p.gif,/versus/images/commands/k.gif,/versus/images/commands/p.gifis useful and can be used in a float combo. No more jeffry /versus/images/commands/p.gif,/versus/images/commands/k.gif,/versus/images/commands/g.gif's, which is fine as they weren't THAT useful.

    bunch of low punch and low kick stuff I can't figure out, except low punch is the same and /versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif looks different.

    <font color="brown">
    6P&6P4P: Motion change. Compulsive &#12375;&#12419; becomes precocious in a 4P (hammer) partial hit, and it is &#12290;. ..
    66P&66PP: Motion &#28608;&#22793;&#26356;. as [ became / short / reach ]
    4P&4PP: It is reach shortening clearly. It does not arrive after 1 P+G. 4P-> -- starting -- decision
    4PP(s) are insurance &#25216;&#12387;&#12413;&#12356; of 4P to the last. A continuation hit will not be carried out if it strikes by 4P hit. </font color>

    Elbow looks different, and something about a /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif,/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif partial hit making the opponent precocious, like Mary Kate or Ashley. Maybe it staggers or something. Range is definitely shorter on this sequence and probably on /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif,/versus/images/commands/p.gif (suxor!). A new canned combo, /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif,/versus/images/commands/p.gif ... the second punch doesn't hit if the first one connects, so the second part is just for insurance, to prevent counterattack. The range on the first hit is shorter, no longer connects after /versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif

    <font color="brown"> 3P&3PP: Motion fine change. 3PP3P are [ whether it is also disappearance or ]. If it floats, 66PP(s) will enter. ..
    2_3P: With no a little more than change. Counter fall on its backside is unidentified.
    33P: Motion change. Since it shoots opening the body delicately, it is [ whether it is also SUKA &#12379;&#12427; or ] about work </font color>

    Triple uppercut looks different. I think it's saying third hit is gone. A float from the second hit is sufficient for a DEU combo. FC uppercut isn't changed much (??)... the butt stumble animation when this attack interrupts isn't confirmed.

    <font color="brown"> &#12414;&#12379; increases [ compulsive &#12375;&#12419; ].
    64P: new work -- it only needs [ which "it is good" became to the "par" ], saying
    P+K&P+KP: -- probably -- inside -> -- a top -- a continuation hit P+KPP disappears. ..
    2 P+K: Motion &#28608;&#22793;&#26356;. compulsive &#12375;&#12419; -- becoming precocious -- the same
    43 P+K: don't raise strike MAKKU crash high disappearance -- I want to see 466 P+K
    Compulsive &#12375;&#12419; becomes precocious again and this is &#12290;. It seems that generating of a few is earlier than 1 P+K. </font color>

    /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif is different somehow. /versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif,/versus/images/commands/p.gif,/versus/images/commands/p.gif is gone (the third hit).
    /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif still forces crouch. Some change to the low headbutt. Canned followups are gone? Forces crouch? The dude wants to follow it with the baseball pitch? I can't translate it really...

    <font color="brown"> [Knee & foot tricks]
    6K: Living. An air combo also enters firmly.
    4K&4KP: This is also living. 4KP(s) are motion change.
    K&KK&KKP: Living. Motion &#28608;&#22793;&#26356;. Use also to an air combo is possible. ..
    &#12418;&#12377;&#12409;&#12390; which makes a 2K&2KP&2K 236 P+G:motion change -- living
    3K&66K&46K&6 K+G: Almost with no change.
    3 K+G: It is heel dropping by command change of a low kick. Be struck and attached.
    </font color>

    Knee works fine and assures a float combo.
    /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif,/versus/images/commands/p.gif looks different. Lots of other attacks remain unchanged, /versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif looks different? But still works as a float combo. /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif is now a heeldrop (similar to current heel drop?) since /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif is now similar to the current /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif (I think that part was mentioned elsewhere).

    Misc: Threat stance /versus/images/commands/k.gif is change. A longer opening before the kick? (laff, useful!). /versus/images/commands/b.gif /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gifnow floats rather can crumples. I think reading the bottom of the page I finally know what the deal with the low kick is: A from standing low kick produces the dunking low (/versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif) animation while only a from crouch /versus/images/commands/D.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif produces the usual low kick. Here's a nice bit: /versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gifproduces a damaging ground throw (like wolf's) rather than a pickup... if I'm reading correctly. /versus/images/commands/uf.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gifis returned to version A status. No idea what that was. I think it has to do the with on the ground recovery.

    And that's about it. Did everyone know that neotower still updates his diary online? http://www.fde-jpn.net/vf/ hasn't updated in forever I'd thought. Anyone wanna tackle said diary? I bet summah can find "heaps n heaps of infos".
     
  7. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

  8. Neo

    Neo Well-Known Member

    I know this is off topic but how about one of those magazine spreads for the Aoi Thread /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  9. martialfanatic

    martialfanatic Well-Known Member

    Re: Some actual Evo jeffry information.

    Okay, now for my questions as a Jeff user.

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif,/versus/images/commands/p.gif looks different

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hopefully it just looks different. Is it close to the same speed it was before, and does the punch still floor your opponent?

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    ...and /versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif looks different.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Crap. In the movelist it says it hits mid. I swore I saw the old /versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif, and it looked chargeable. Could it be the chargeable /versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif?

    These are my main concerns. Jeff looks good judging from his vids. One smaller question though, but not as important. Before, Jeff's rolling heel (/versus/images/commands/uf.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif) used to be able to go through some high attacks, and over some mid attacks. Did they "fix" that or do those properties remain the same?

    Oh, and /versus/images/commands/k.gif from threat stance slower? It looks roughly the same speed to me. Only change is now its a side kick now instead of that push kick. Or that appears to be the only change...
     
  10. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Some actual Evo jeffry information.

    /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif has the same functionality as before, and /versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif is practically a new move. Quite good.

    Overall, Jeffry is much less of a throwing character than he was before. In fact, I would say many characters have better throws than Jeffry now (Goh, Aoi, maybe Kage, maybe Akira, etc.).

    Jeffry's strikes have improved, and his stance is quite useful. I would characterize him as a character with high damage potential and decent poking/setting up ability.
     
  11. martialfanatic

    martialfanatic Well-Known Member

    Re: Some actual Evo jeffry information.

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    Overall, Jeffry is much less of a throwing character than he was before.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    OMG no /versus/images/icons/frown.gif . I always considered many other characters to have better throw games, but your use of the word "much" is what's got me frightened. What did they, or could they possibly do to weaken Jeff's throwing game? Or is it that his striking/poking game is so improved that it overshadows his throwing?

    I know I'm whining, but I've always used striking with Jeff to set up the "big throw", even if I get it off once in a match, it helps. Explain what makes his throwing game "much" weaker. Sorry for all the questions, I just want to have a clear picture of what to expect when I finally step up to Evo.
     
  12. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    Re: Some actual Evo jeffry information.

    Trust me, after getting bashed around by Llanfairs Jeff the last few times out, I can safely say that Jeff is still very much a throwing character. Don't get me wrong he has lots of damaging combos (he always has) -- but the emphasis still seems to be setting up for the throw.


    cheers,
    kbcat
     
  13. martialfanatic

    martialfanatic Well-Known Member

    Re: Some actual Evo jeffry information.

    Thank you for putting my fears at rest. I'm dying for Evo to come to my arcade. It'd better...I never saw VF4 in any arcade I went to.

    Sorry for all the questions. I just want to know how much is different for my characters. Guess I won't know until I actually play. So far the only move gone that I wish Jeff still had is the /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif,/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif. Oh well. You lose some you gain some /versus/images/icons/wink.gif .
     
  14. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Some actual Evo jeffry information.

    Sure, here are a few facts:

    - /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif can be TR/QRed for no damage

    - /versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif is not as useful now that /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif lost its range, and it seems easier to struggle out of wall stuns

    - Small down attack is no longer guaranteed after /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif

    - No more /versus/images/commands/u.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif or small down attack guessing games after Splash Mountain

    - Ditto with /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif

    What Jeffry is left with is two good throws that are not as good as they used to be, one weak but decent throw, and two throws that have very specific uses (i.e. mostly not that great). Compare this to other characters like Goh who has two comparably good throws (270f and HCB) and two additional decent ones (/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/d.gif and /versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif).

    His strikes are OK, but he's no Lau or Pai. What he's good at is his nitaku ability to set up the big throw/combo.
     
  15. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Re: Some actual Evo jeffry information.

    I still think you're smoking crack. A *BIT* weakened, yes, but his other throws are still strong as balls, he's got probably the best nitaku in the game after a guarded sweep -- IE, if you try to escape the low throw, and he knees you, you can kiss close to half the bar away.

    Also, his catch throw takes off half the bar... at least 95 pts... no shit. Yeah, the command is strong, but damn, talk about turning a match around!
     
  16. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Some actual Evo jeffry information.

    After guarded sweep - dodge low throw escape. You'll escape both the knee and the more obvious low throws (or all three if fast enough). Also, if you think about it, most characters can take off a guaranteed 50 points from a guarded low sweep.

    (What catch throw are you talking about?)

    With his two best throws "only" taking 70 and 65 points, there are many other characters with an equal or better throwing game. It's probably kind of odd that a heavy character doesn't have the best throwing game, but...just look at the facts.
     
  17. martialfanatic

    martialfanatic Well-Known Member

    Re: Some actual Evo jeffry information.

    Out of everything you said, this is the only one that disturbs me.
    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    now that /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif lost its range, and it seems easier to struggle out of wall stuns.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif was a weak throw to begin with. It's only useful when you're at an angle where he's going to toss them into a wall. Works wonders then, because nobody will ever think to break the /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif.

    How much range is lost on the /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif? If you ever find a video showing an Evo Jeff user using this move (and showing the changes), post it here along with the media thread (Anyone, not just ice-9. If I find one I'll do the same).

    And how much easier is it to get out of wall stuns? Is is so easy that you took /versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif out of your arsenal, or is it easier, but you still connect some stuff sometimes?

    Otherwise, for me, that's no big deal. Front Back Breaker and Splash mountain remove 65 and 70 points of life...I'm still happy. /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif does a humble 50, but that's still a quarter of the life bar. I'm still optimistic about Jeff's throw game. I know it won't be the strongest in the game (it never was), but it'll still strike fear into the opposition's heart; I'll make sure of that.

    What about his /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif and /versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/g.gif? Can opponents get up quicker from those too? And on the low throw...let them dodge or escape. If I think they're going to try it, I'll wait and bust the /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif, if it'll still reach.
     
  18. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    Re: Some actual Evo jeffry information.

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    (What catch throw are you talking about?)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not trying to put words in GPs mouth... but I believe he was talking about Jeff's new hit throw (/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif+/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif). Not only does it have awesome animation, but it seems to do a fair chunk of damage as well (I don't know the precise numbers).


    cheers,
    kbcat
     
  19. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    Re: Some actual Evo jeffry information.

    GP is also likely referring to Jeff's P+K+G,P,f+P+G. An easy b,df+P+K will hit against everyone for a guaranteed df+K. This takes off about 80 odd point of damage. Pretty sweet. Not to mention, he has the TKoD.

    I'd have to disagree with Ice-9 and say that Jeff's throwing game is quite good. I've never been one to judge a character's throwing game based on damage numbers. Jeff has throws in nearly every direction. That says a lot. Additionally, his range is huge.

    Jeff, weak? Uhm...I don't think so, but that's my opinion. I could give a shit about what some tetsujin says, to be honest. Jeff's so much more fun to play in Evo than ever before and I'm enjoying playing him immensely.

    cheers,
     
  20. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Some actual Evo jeffry information.

    Well, none of them are catch throws (Jeffry doesn't have any catch throws), and are closer to hit throws than anything else. While the stance throw is quite good, Jeffry's /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif is useful only in very specific situations (hits high, not quick, long recovery).

    When we think of a throw game, fundamentally, what we're asking is: what are the character's options with +8 frames advantage? Even then, on a more general level, high throws are about defeating standing, guarding opponents and dodging opponents. Hit throws fails on all counts (unless you anticipate the dodge and delay), and that is why I consider a hit throw more of an attack than an actual throw.

    Now, nowhere did I ever say Jeffry was weak, underpowered, boring, or whatever. Or even that his throwing game is BAD. These are words you are all putting in my mouth. That his throw game is worse than Version C and that other characters now have a throwing game on par with Jeffry, however, are facts.
     

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