VF4 Evolution Jeffry Thread

Re: low unblockable?

The deer and headlights effect is what I go for (finally got to play evo...yes!!!). Besides, you don't have to charge it. It's decently quick to use as a low strike...wouldn't keep poking with it though. Didn't get to play enough to come up with anything "special" for it though.

I'm still curious about the ++. I asked earlier if it had the same properties as it did in the home version (C), and the only answer I got was that it was restored to its A-version status. That helps me none because I never played version A. I just want to know if it will still go through high pokes and over distant low moves (kinda doubtful because the animation is very different). I didn't think to test it out the few times I played...too busy loving the new ++ into throw /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Re: low unblockable?

One other Jeff question (sorry for the double post, but this threads getting quiet). I've tried to do the +, (and the weaker, useless ), but they won't work, yet they're in the movelist. Am I trippin'? I swear I tried to do the move, it's not hard. But it won't come out. It's like the punch string ends with the body blow.

 

Re: low unblockable?

yeah from what I remember, PPP is gone. But P,K,P is possible, and there's the whole threat stance thing after jeffry's punches.

 

Re: low unblockable?

I can live with that. But not having ++,++ hurts my soul still.

 

Re: low unblockable?

You can ppp+k+g now instead of ppp.

 

Re: Is Jeff weak?

Hey kids,

Here's the thing: Jeff was never "weak" in VF4, just lacking in options in comparison to other throwers, like Aoi and Wolf. Not that this makes him ineffective, just that he becomes quite predicatable (something that i think was designed to be his weakness, as stated in the VF4 manual for PS2).

Now, i'm looking over his Evo movelist, and basically seeing the same character minus any damage on ++. Yeah, he's got ,,++, but how does that help him if there's a delay added to the ++,? Sorta aggravating.

He's got some welcome animation changes, and the low unblockable (?), but that's about it, eh? I'm not impressed.

What with other characters sort of coming into their own and improving dramatically in Evo, it's sorta disappointing that Jeff, who wasn't the strongest character to begin with, didn't get any better.

So, since ice won't say it (or doesn't believe it), i will: Jeff has been weakened.

OK, enough comlplaining; time for some requisite grasping at straws:

Has his ,,+ or his ,,++ become useful? I know some property or another has changed, but i don't know what it is, or whether it matters.

If i'm not mistaken, Jeff is the only character that has maintained the traditional knee. Does this confer him any advantage?

FInally, his ,++,+ hit throw. Usefulness? Does the new mid-hitting hell stab (+) add any new strategy?

I guess that's all, thanks,

Æon

 

Re: Is Jeff weak?

My bro wants to pick up Jeffry as his second player so I'm trying to find out some basic strategies for him. All I can find is stuff for the old versions and hardly anything for Evo.

I've got the obvious knee/throw guessing game stuff but what else (that's not in the version B dojo on this site) is useful to know when using Jeffry on Evo? I'm just looking for simple flowcharts etc etc for now.

Thanks in advance.

 

Re: Is Jeff weak?

Just to clarify things before anyone replies. If you could perhaps lend a hand in telling me what is still relevant on Evo from the old dojo guide in the Jeffry section here and point out any changes/new things that are Evo-specific that would be a great help.

 

Re: Is Jeff weak?

A lot of it is still applicable, but I'm too lazy to say what specifically.

Some key stuff -

Basic jeff strategy is to approach with safe moves like P, d+P, and f,f+P.

[*]P when guarded gives jeff a little initiative. You can use b+K,P at this point to stuff the opponent's d+P unless they react with it right away. b+K, P is basically jeffry's low punch stuffer, it's the fastest attack he has that isn't a jab or low punch. If people dodge the shot knee, sometimes the half circular punch followup smacks them if they try to counterattack right away (e.g. with a dodge attack). Also, the shot knee is nice vs crouchers because it stands them up and the followup punch then smacks them for a knockdown. That's a spinning knockdown, which people sometimes fail to TR. Be ready with a df+K stomp if they do.

So after your blocked jab, b+K,P works if they crouch, if they low punch, or if they try an attack slower than it (which means anything elbow-speed or worse).
You can also use it when people come out of tech rolls attacking with i.e. a low punch. Knock them down again and keep on the pressure.

Careful being too predictable with it, after blocking b+K they can duck the punch and rape you.

[*]d+P is key for jeffry just like with anyone else. If it hits normally, like during the recovery of a whiffed high attack, you can follow with a FC uppercut, which should stuff any attack they might try. If they don't attack and choose to dodge/guard, you can throw them. So any successful low punch is an immediate guessing game between FC upper or throw.

If the FC uppercut hits them and causes heavy stagger, you can try a few things.
If you think they will struggle and guard, you can throw them with i.e. df,df+P+G. If you think they will struggle and attack, you can stuff it with a knee combo or a safer f,f+P,P. The f,f+P,P is a nice option because it works in 2 situations: If they attack, it'll stuff the attack for a nice ~50 pt chunk of damage. If the attack was a low punch, they will be staggered by the first hit and floated by the second, and you can tack on a simple d+K+G to increase the damage to the 60 pt range... pretty decent. If the opponent simply crouches in an attempt to duck your next attack (a knee vs a crouching defender doesn't hurt too much) then your DEU (dashing elbow-uppercut) will cause the same stagger-float-d+K+G combo. Total damage is ~50 pts. So DEU beats crouching and attacking for a nice reward, and throw beats guarding or dodging for a nice reward.

Oh, also, the FC upper is nice because it's only -4 when blocked, pretty safe.
If they think they can throw you afterwards, knee them.

[*] To create guessing games without playing defensively, use f,f+P to approach. It's a good move, similar to an elbow but with longer range. It staggers crouchers to give jeffry enough advantage for an immediate knee-or-throw guessing game. Or you can follow up with the punch immediately to float them a bit for a d+K+G afterwards. If it's guarded, you are only -6 (not throwable) and they then get to guess between you doing an uppercut (press P again) or a throw. Mix up the amount of delay after ff+P. If someone blocks the second punch of your f,f+P,P while crouched, jeffry is only -4. If they are interrupted by it, you are +2 and can force a guess between the b+K,P combo or a throw. I should mention right here that you'll get a LOT of mileage out of ff+P --> delay P interrupt --> throw. You can create a similar hit-or-throw guessing game with b,df+P,P ... but the second hit of that is less rewarding, a few points and a knockdown. It's also a lot more risky. So I'd stick to f,f+P,P as an offensive tool.

Your sidekick is pretty strong. I pretty common jeff trick is jab --> crouch dash back a hair --> commit immediately to a sidekick. Jeffry will smack their low punch with it and sometimes you can get a d+K+G afterwards.

[*]Combo starters: Jeffry's combo starters are all too slow to use without a little bit of initiative on your side. Here are some tricks you can use to connect with them.

df,df+P and b,f,f+P+K both duck under high attacks during their execution. A neat trick with the b,f,f+P+K is that it even ducks under elbows and certain other mids if jeffry's about halfway through the animation. You might be able to develop an instinct for sneaking it in if the opponent tries elbows predictably. Both of these big moves are surprisingly only throw counterable, not punch counterable (akira's yoho and shrm recovery seem horrible by comparison), so players with EDTEG skills or just DTEG can gamble on these and sometimes get away with them if they fail. The reward for bff+PK is huge, a typical followup is K,K,P. After df,df+P you can do the standard d+P --> f,f+P,P combo. If they're high enough to hit with a jab, do P --> b,df+P,P ... it's more damage.

Jeffry's df+P,P double upper is pretty nice, it's got the same risk as one of the other big uppercut combo starters listed above... but it's faster by several frames. That means that you can create a kind of scary guessing game if you block a typical elbow ... 50-70 points from a df+P,P combo if they low punch... or 50-70 points from a throw if they dodge/guard.

A simple setup for the double uppercut is jeffry's P,P. If the opponent tries to d+P after seeing jeffry's jab, his second hit from P,P will interrupt them and give jeff 4 frames of advantage. That means a 16 frame attack like df+P,P can stuff their low punch if they try to attack. You then get a staple combo:
df+P,P --> d+P --> d+K+G for around 50 pts of damage. You can also get df+P,P --> f,f+P,P for about 70.

The df+P,P doesn't advance jeffry forward much so it can be used after any move that shoves the opponent back a bit. I.e. if they block jeffry's f+P elbow or b+P+K you can follow with an immediate df+P,P and it will seem to hit their low punch even though you're at a disadvantage (it's actually punishing their low punch as they retract their arm). You can even do df+P,P --> df+P,P if they aren't aware that your double uppercut is -10.

Finally there's jeffry's knee. It's slow at 17 frames and doesn't have any priority in the sense that it won't duck under high punches like the giant uppercuts will, and it won't really stuff low punches the way df+P,P will. So you need to basically get +5 frames advantage and then try to use it to stuff their predictable low punch. You can get 5 frames of advantage in a few ways.

1. Block their attack. Moves like akira's SDE put him at -6 when blocked, and the opponent is immediately in a knee-or-throw guessing game. The knee is a big risk and a big reward.. it's an easy 80-100 point combo if it hits. If they guard it, you're going to eat at least 50 points from their counterattack probably because it's -14... that's about the worst recovery you'll see on a useful move.

2. Use a d+P interrupt to get +5 right away. Usually d+P MC --> throw works like gangbusters, but if someone actually trains themselves to react to d+P with their own move... mix it up with d+P --> knee.

3. Connect with a standing jab (counterhit or no counterhit) and you'll have enough advantage to stuff their attack with your knee.

OH, you'll want some knee combos.
The works-everytime-and-is-good-for-newbies-and-good-players-alike combo:
Knee --> d+P --> f,f+P,P

If you're facing a lighter opponent, substitute d+P for high punch and ff+P,P for b,df+P,P.

If the opponent is super light, as in a female char, try knee --> P --> b,f+P+K headbutt. The headbutt slams them and if they fail to TR, an u+P pounce is guaranteed. Good for ~100 points.

Less damaging but more guaranteed is knee --> P --> K,K,P.

If the opponent is heavier stick to the basic DEU combo or d+P, d+K+G. The d+P, d+K+G can also work for low floats created when you hit a crouched opponnent.

[*]Throwing game -

df,df+P+G and b,f,f+P+G are your big guns. Naturally the opponent will double throw escape and . So d+P+G is your next best option. If there's a wall or ringout behind you, whore out the db+P+G and hope they're too dumb to escape it. If they smack the wall after db+P+G you have a lot of options. f,f+P,P is safe and you can gamble on the slower f+P+K.

When low throwing, work on the easy machine gun knee motion (QCF+). Look for setups where the opponent's predictable low punch is going to whiff and use a low throw to punish them. That's a lot of damage and style points.

[*]Anti-dodge tricks.

b,f+P is half circular and really reams dodges.. they crumple and will eat jeffry's K,K,P afterwards for big damage.

f,b+P is a safe version of this... it's a piddly -3 when guarded and gives mad frame advantage on hit. I think it's also full circular. It turns them around so you can inflict an immediate knee-or-throw guessing game afterwards, or try a safer ff+P,P.

If you know the opponent is good at doing dodge + throw escapes, you have a dillemma - throws might be escaped. Most attacks aren't circular and might get dodged. The only circular move - f,b+P - guarantees nothing. I recommend simply waiting for them to start their dodge (so that it turns into a failed/whiffed dodge) and then using the quick b+K,P to punish them during their dodge recovery.

[*]misc tools -

f,f+P+K is a fast (15 frame) hit throw. The throw followup is guaranteed on any hit. What that means is that this is a great move to use when you are 100 percent sure the opponent will attack with something (not a jab or d+P). You can simply dodge their attack and counter with a quick f,f+P+K hit throw while they're still recovering from their whiffed elbow or whatever. That's a nice 65-70 point reward for a little yomi.

f+P+K ducks under high punches and crumples the opponent for an easy ff+P,P followup. If they TR at this point you can backstagger them with f,f+P. f,f+P also doubles as a nice tool to punish someone who QR's and then chooses to guard low, so basically crumple --> ff+P,P --> ff+P is a nice all around option. If they choose to QR and guard high, you naturally will want to throw. If they don't do anything, take your df+K stomp.

d+K, the toe kick, has the weird property of stuffing low punches from long range sometimes. If it interrupts, the TKOD is guaranteed and kinda fun to do. It's a lot of reward if you can find a magic opportunity to MC with it, and the move is relatively safe if blocked.

db+P+K is your basic slow force crouch attack that guarantees a low throw if you get lucky enough to hit with it. If they prove good at escaping your low throws, try db+P+K --> knee next time.

df+P+K,P,P is sort of jeffry's canned combo of doom. It's got 2 mids in a row and the opponent must worry about the attack-or-throw guessing game after blocking each hit. The first two hits have safe recovery. If you're lucky or intelligent enough to make them guard the first two hits and then get interrupted by the third, a throw is guaranteed... they cannot attack you out of it, only enter quick throw escapes.

f+K+G is your basic tool for crushing anticipated rising attacks. It simply eats them up. On any hit, a throw followup is guaranteed (they must enter escapes). It staggers the opponent if they guard it.

[*]Low throwing - every low punch can be a low throw opportunity. If you can set them up with a move that makes low punches whiff afterwards (blocked elbow for example) you can get a guaranteed low throw. If you guard a low punch, you can often low throw them before they realize they need to attack or dodge right away. If you know the opponent will wake up with a low rising attack, hop over it and low throw. If you block a typical sweep or low kick, a low throw is often guaranteed. If you mix your low throws up, even good low throw escapers might still eat one. Double low throw escaping isn't too bad but triple low throw escaping takes practice. Alternately you can punish blocked sweeps with b+K,P for slightly lower guaranteed damage.
Low throws are also strong against tech rolls... if they TR and then hold guard or d+G, they will eat a low throw. If they QR and choose to guard low, a low throw can scoop them up if you delay a bit. Finally low throws are a good way to catch people who have strong fuzzy guarding skills or crouch dash a lot.

Phew, I'm tired of typing. There are more useful jeff moves, but they're stuff I don't use and don't know how to be effective with. I hope this gets your buddy started.

 

Re: Is Jeff weak?

MUCH more than I was expecting. Thanks alot for taking the time to do that, it is exactly the kinda thing I was hoping for.

Cheers.

 

Re: Is Jeff weak?

i could be wrong but i thought that + forced crouch on hit and gaurantees a low throw or or . can anybody test this and tell me if i am high? /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

Re: Is Jeff weak?

Hi!
f+P+K does what I said - you can check the movelist to see moves that force crouch or crumple etc. Or turn on your PS2 if you got a copy /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Re: Is Jeff weak?

Ok let me rephrase myself, I'm thinking that after the + crumples the opponent you get a gauranteed low throw. I know the or againist heavy weights is gauranteed damage vs an escapable low throw, but with 3 low throw directions it seems like a good option. And on side note the move list doesn't metion any special properties for the + crumpple or otherwise (which was why i was asking). I guess I know what i think, just asking to seem if I am wrong or right. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Re: Is Jeff weak?

we already went over it, but for anyone else who was wondering the same thing -

If you get hit by f+P+K, you can try entering a triple low throw escape...and you should, every single time. There's no reason not to, you're crumpling so if they decided to attack you, you'll eat it no matter what.

If you get hit by db+P+K, you can also enter triple low throw escapes, but doing so leaves you open to a knee combo. So it's a 50/50 guessing game and you maybe shouldn't enter throw escapes every single time. I guess in theoryland you can enter TLTEG.

 

Re: Is Jeff weak?

Ok, back for more advice.

He (my bro) has been complaining that Jeffry doesn't have any good moves to stuff dP. I suggested the shot knee maybe, but he remains adamant that it doesn't work. What are Jeffry's best answers to dP when

guarded

normal hit

counter hit


Thanks in advance.

 

Re: Is Jeff weak?

Not sure what your asking...

After jeff guards a LP he should go for a 16frame mid attack or faster to beat the opponents followups (of course if you're playing against the girls you would need a 15 frame attack to beat their 11 frame punch /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)...you can mix this up with a throw...if the opponent evades a lot then just wait for a failed dodge and knee.

If you get hit by a LP(normal or MC) then the best thing to do in most situations is EDTEG...this is really hard to do...in other words there's no easy way out.

 

Re: Is Jeff weak?

You've got a bunch of options, but doing any of them relies on two things:

1. Prediction
2. Reflexes

When the opponent has their low punch blocked, they are -4. So any attack of jeffry's that's 16 frames or more will win if they try to attack again.

But! In reality, landing a 16 frame attack and stuffing their next low punch is tough... even in training mode you might not get it on the first try. That's just the human factor, it takes a frame or two to realize what you just saw (d+P is blocked for example). So while a 16 frame move like , should stop their next low punch from coming out, in reality a 14 frame move is much more likely to succeed.

That's where you'd use jeff's shot knee, but for some reason your friend isn't getting anywhere with it. Ok, let's assume for now his VF reactions aren't honed to the point where he can block a low punch and then shot knee out of the next low punch on reflex.

Quite honestly, the best thing he can do (and should train himself to do) is low punch back. That's a key reflex ingrained into any VF player, and training mode even has a session that teaches you to low punch in reaction to blocked uncounterable moves.

You might say "well if I low punch back, so what? What's that get me? Dick. I wanna really hurt them for low punching!"

That's where prediction comes in.

A> If you low punch back and they tried a low punch, your low punch hits first and stuns them. They'll be in a crouch. If you enter a quick you will low throw them just as they recover. They could hit you out of the low throw, but 99% of players just eat it. It's as good as free if you do it right away.

B> If you low punch back and they tried a standing attack, just throw. Again, it's as good as free unless they have really well trained reactions/reflexes.
Do it until they prove they can get out of it. Then try something else next time, like low punch --> knee or the less risky low punch --> +.

C> If you low punch back and they blocked it... well, that's bad but it's also good in a sense: If your opponent follows d+P by holding guard, they really are screwing themselves. If you spot that habit, here's what you can do to rape them:

[*]If they do d+P and hold guard, you can low throw immediately and you'll scoop them up before they stand up.
[*]If you throw right away and they're still holding guard when your throw finishes executing in 8 short frames, you'll nab them. So basically after a blocked low punch they MUST do something because any throw you try, high or low, will snag them if they don't plan on attacking again.
The added bonus to doing d+P, high throw is that if they dodged you'll also snag them.

OK, so you know what to do if they d+P and guard, let's get more into what's probably messing with your buddy... when they do fast multiple low punches.

Let's assume all these situations are d+P (guarded) followed immediately by another d+P.

If you see the first d+P coming and have perfect reflexes -
Hardest - crouch dash back with , then do a quick df+P+K+G low throw. If they low punched a second time, the low throw grabs them out of the recovery.

Hard - crouch dash back with , then do a sidekick. If they tried almost anything at all except guard/dodge.. the sidekick will hit them.

Kinda tricky - df+P,P --> d+P --> d+K+G combo. Since the df+P is a 16 frame move, it will stuff even a low punch in this situation if you do it right away.

Easier - df+K or d+K+G. If you crouch blocked the low punch, FC uppercut (+)
---

If you have just 'Ok' reflexes and you see it coming
Best - b+K, P
Ehh - f+P, b+P

If you have OK refexes but never saw the first d+P coming

Just d+P. If you're successful, you can throw them (use your reflexes to determine whether to go for a high or low throw... if you get good enough at it, you can even do stuff like d+P --> QCF+PKG on reflex. Or d+P --> df,df+P+G)

Finally, if you know the opponent loves low punch, you can actually set them up
for low punches that they can't help trying, but will definitely whiff.

A simple example is after df+P,P is blocked. If they're smart they'll throw you but if they just love to spaz on low punch, do another df+P,P. You'll see that their d+P fails and your double upper nails them.

Another nice setup is for jeffry to do high punch (guarded) --> d+P.
If they attack at ALL in this situation (even with their own d+P) ... Jeff's d+P will win. Good players have trained themselves to react to blocked high punch with either fuzzy guard or low punch. If your opponents like to d+P try this flowchart:

jab (blocked)
d+P (stuffs their d+P)
low throw.

After a while they'll realize they shouldn't attack jeffry when they guard his jab. Then you can start screwing with them by doing jab --> throw or jab --> low throw.

I hope that helped. If it's a ton to read and complex and irritating, here's a summary.

1. React to d+P with your own d+P
2. Follow with a high throw (if they're stunned and standing) or a low throw (if they're stunned and crouching).
3. Once your reflexes improve and your friend can do that, try some harder stuff like whiffed low punch setups, or using shot knee to interrupt two d+P's in a row.