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VF4 Evolution Sarah Thread

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by GaijinPunch, Jun 18, 2002.

  1. NewBassHippo

    NewBassHippo Active Member

    What is Sarah wearing on her wrists in that first movie? It looks like she's leaving 'trails' behind her punches (a lot like Ling in T4).
     
  2. LeoT

    LeoT Well-Known Member

    Adio: Please do not miss the following tournament vid. I don't mean it's a high-quality vid in terms of visual quality. But it's a good vid for learning Sarah techniques.

    [1st X Cup 3-on-3 VF4 Tournament in HK -Version C]
    http://hk-vf.net/staging/moviedl/moviedl.htm

    Most recently, this tournament was held inviting all the best VF4 players in HK. The reason i show this vid in this link is that, "Sarah" is not a WEAK character indeed. There are tons of good players here like Calvin's Jeff/Wolf, Chrono's Lei-fei and ShiYu's Jacky. To win with Sarah among heavy-weight players is definitely not easy. She almost made it., just lose by a little bit of blood.

    Basically, it's the Mongkok Sarah who saved the whole team. (e.g. winning the tough Akira in semi-final, slightly losing to Wolf in final). Although the vids are very grossy, it's fine to me enjoying the typical gameplay techniques of good players I've don't ever imagine. Let's see what the difference of style they are from Japan,Korean and Western players.

    Please pay attention to the topmost team, where the best Sarah player is (In my opinion): (Jacky+Akira+Sarah). Enjoy the exciting vid and see how she contributes herself to the team and bring the team to the first-runner-up. His nickname is "Mongkok Sarah".

    If you come to HK, you couldn't miss having a tournament with him.

    Welcome for comment.
     
  3. LeoT

    LeoT Well-Known Member

    SixtyTen:

    It's actually an acquired item - a wrist watch with blue fluorescent light.
     
  4. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Awesome posting - thanks for the heads up on the vids...I will comment after I d/l them and watch.
     
  5. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Some of the characters have laser wristbands in Evo. I've seen them on Jacky, and Akira, and now you're mentioning Sarah. Pretty kewl, no?
     
  6. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

  7. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    In light of an actual command list and the previous clips, I'd like to sum some things up:

    [K]+[G]: Thanks to the scanned images and material I have from Arcadia magazine, the Spinning Scare Crow hit's High, despite the typos in both DreamMaga and Arcadia, you just have to look at the hit animation. Like Jacky's Crescent this doesn't knock down but, instead it delivers enough stagger for Sarah to be safe to follow through in the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color>.

    [6][P][P]: Is now the new command for Elbow Side Chop. Scrubs will be pleased.

    [6][P][K]: Now this is an interesting change to Sarah's style. The Double Joint Butt now only knocks the opponent down if the elbow hits. If you miss with [6][P] but follow through with [K], even if you hit, Sarah will land before a standing opponent and can expect a reprisal, to an extent as if she was blocked? We'll need frame data for anything concrete.

    [3][K]: Along with improved speed, range, recovery and probably strength, Middle Kick is now as good a tool for staggering a crouching opponent as [4][K] can be.

    [7][K]/[K]+[G]: Sarah now has two versions of the Somersault Kick. What differentiates them, I don't know.

    With regard to this clip featuring Wolf vs Sarah:

    http://www5d.biglobe.ne.jp/~daioh/movie/daioh_02810evo1.wmv

    56 secs/1 min 7 secs: I approve of the new animation for <font color="pink">FL:</font color> [8]/[2][P]+[K] (Side Neck Cut Sword). Sarah now kicks much earlier as she side-steps meaning that when she strikes she'll always face the opponent which solves the problem she had before where she'd often end up with her back turned because of the angle attack from. She seems to have kept her advantage when the move hits too.

    1 min 1st/49th secs: I believe this to be the new animation for the Tornado Kick ([9][K]+[G]). It's fast and very practical looking. Damage is up in the air as it's never used as an attack in the clip but the fact that it hits Special High means that it won't be easy to counter. The old incarnation was a joke.

    With regard to this clip featuring Sarah vs Aoi:

    http://tbzone.co.kr/vf4e_sarah_vs_aoi.wmv

    24 secs: It seems that Sarah no longer crashes to the ground when hit during [9][K] (Full Spin Heel Kick). Whether this was due to A: She was hit early in the moves execution. B: The move that interrupted her ([2_][K]) was not a knock down technique or C: All of the above, I have no idea.

    Regardless, it makes that which was once and probably still is such a risky move a bit more attractive to conservative players.

    1 min 13/14 secs: This is the new Crescent Heel ([4][K]+[G]). But, despite it's name it doesn't resemble a crescent in my opinion. On the other hand, it looks almost identical to her old [K]+[G] though, It's slow (She swings her leg round in a high arch rather then snapping it forward) in comparison to her old kicks (Slightly slower then her old [K]+[G]) but, it's strong and has great range. In the two clips in which I've seen it (This one and vs Vanessa: http://tbzone.co.kr/vf4e_vanea_vs_sarah.wmv ) it struck as an MC on both occasions but it must do at least 30pts. It makes the opponent crouch like the old [1][K]+[G] (Side Hook Kick) and doesn't seem to be distance dependant for damage either.

    With regard to this clip featuring Sarah vs Wolf:

    http://tbzone.co.kr/vf4e_wolf(texas)_vs_sarah.wmv

    1 min 4th secs: Shows the new [6][K]+[G] (Spin Heel Sword). It's namesake doesn't fit it as Sarah doesn't actually spin like she did before but instead raises her front leg, toes pointed and brings it down as she did before. It's slower than it's predecessor but not enough to be too much of a problem though the range is much shorter (Say, the equal to her old [4][K]+[G])

    Damage wise it seems to do around 25pts which is weaker then the old 30pts. I'm hoping that it still has it's combo properties though, it was followed up with [1][K]+[G][K], <font color="pink">FL:</font color> [8][K] against Wolf (A heavy weight) so there is some potential.
     
  8. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    OK, I've finally been able to play Evo (Test/Development version) and had a chance to put some of my theories to the test. First, some corrections:

    The comments I made in my last post regarding the Crescent Heel and the Spin Heel Sword still stand but, I got the commands mixed up (Well this is how it is in the test version). [6][K]+[G] is in fact the Crescent Heel and [4][K]+[G] is the Spin Heel Sword.

    Notes:

    With that out of the way I can say that [4][K]+[G] can be used just like [7][K]+[G] could with on the bounce combos like [4][K]+[G], [2_][P], [6][P][K] or [4][K]+[G], [2_][P], [2_][6][K]+[G]. Both players must be in open stance though (It hapens more then you think).

    [6][K]+[G] will always make the opponent crouch whether it's a counter or not and as an MC it does indeed do a lot of damage (40pts). It seems to give a bit of frame advantage and recovery is good so you could try interrupting the opponents next attack with [6][K] for an MC or something completely different.

    [6][K] (Quick Knee) Is great at setting up throws especially her new [8][4][2][6]/[2][4][8][6][P]+[G], a really good poke with great priority. It saved me a lot.

    [K][K] I abused this move. It's a great finish to float combos and it can't be ducked just like Jacky's. My move of choice if I froze during a float or, was floating a heavy weight. Looks slick too.

    [2][P]+[K][K] (Serpent Smash Cannon): If the first part hits then so will the second (But it hits high so don't miss the first part or your opponent can duck) for a decent float which I followed with [4][K], <font color="pink">FL:</font color> [8][K]. The first part: [2][P]+[K] (Serpent Toe Kick) is superior to the old version. It's range isn't anything special but now it can actually hit someone who isn't belly to belly with you. It's got decent speed too, a good update.

    Because of Sarah's new sidekick animation the second part of [2][K][K] (Jackknife Middle Kick) doesn't have as much reach as it did before but, I feel it recovers better then it use to. It can still be used in floats as it was before too.

    I really like the look of her new [3][K][K] (Mirage Kick) which for the record is made up of two kicks so she does three in total. [3][K] (Middle Kick) Is great in my opinion. Whether I like it so much because I have no past experience of Sarah having a decent sidekick could be part of it but the move is fast, strong (20pts) and has good range and priority, a good poke that I think will probably be her main mid hitting tool.

    [1][K]+[G] (Valkyrie Low) is very fast, a super low poke. Recovery is very good and if it hits it all but guarantees [1][K]+[G][K] (Valkyrie Sword) like the [K] of [3][P][K] (Set-up Combination) if you follow through immediately. The full combo can used in place of [4][K] or [3][P][K] as a part of float combos up to Jacky and also makes a good follow up from [2][P]+[K][K].

    I really like [8][K] (Feather Scare Crow). It's quick and I used it like a high [4][K]. Being a <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> activator you're fine whether it hits or is blocked, it's just the initial hop animation where she's vulnerable as she'll float easily if she's knocked out of it. The [P][P][P][8][K] (Scare Crow Combination) variant is even better as it hits Mid. Plus I don't think she hops as high too. I would have preferred it was possible to do it after just [P][P] but it's WAY better then the old combo.

    I like the new [6][P]+[K][P][K] (Storm Combination) I found it hard fitting it in my repertoire at first but it's a nice quick combo. The first part [6][P]+[K] (Freeze shot) is a touch slower then her [P] but [6][P]+[K][P] (Wind Knuckle) hits quickly in a one-two manner. The [K] is very fast and with the option of cancelling it with [G] you can go onto the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> to surprise your opponents. But the window for the cancel is quite narrow. With practice it shouldn't be a bother. It also worked well in a float combo instead of the regular [P][P][P]X[K] combos, think of it as [P][P][K].

    [9][K]+[G]: At last! The Tornado Kick HAS been sorted! (It's taken eight bloody years) I had a lot of fun with this. It's quick and has mad priority and hit's special high so it dismisses most low attacks. Along with [8][K] it kills Brad with all his standing low kicks. I breezed passed him. Damage wise it seemed to do 25pts but I feel it's still distance dependent. None the less, it's actually VIABLE in a match now. Use it at your discretion.

    [K]+[G] (Spinning Scare Crow) was tough to get used to. It has good priority and is fast. I think the damage was 25pts, it's certainly not distance dependent. I can't tell if this is a crescent or not. she doesn't do a 360, it looks like a stronger version of the second part of [3][P][K]. It might be a half crescent but it seems that it could be avoided if you dodge to her back. Of course it can be ducked as it hits high and I learnt this the hard way. Comes through in a pinch though.

    Trivia:

    [7][K]/[K]+[G] (Somersault Kick) are exactly the same. No difference in recovery or damage (I used/wasted a credit just doing the two moves). With hindsight I figure that one might be a charge move but this is the test version after all. Something to check when I return.

    The new animation for <font color="pink">FL:</font color> [8]/[2][P]+[K] (Side Neck Cut Sword) is a definite improvement. Gone is that annoying trait of ending up with your back turned. Still works the same ([3][P][K] can't be avoided as a follow up). I do miss the old animation but what can you do.

    <font color="pink">FL:</font color> [K]+[G] (Heel Sword) now has the same animation as [4][K]+[G] (Spin Heel Sword). Though I said that the latter has much less range then the old version, in comparison to the old animation for the Heel Sword this has much better range and speed. Because of the animation it's much easier to perform the hit throw too. This move will be used a lot more as a safe way to exit the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> with the potential of doing damage. As long as you don't face a character that can counter.

    <font color="pink">FL:</font color> [3][K] has new animation. It's faster now and has slightly better range. A welcomed improvement.

    Sarah now bends her supporting leg in the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> stance. Purely cosmetic but It's a nice touch.

    She's lost her [2_][K][K]. She only does one low kick now. Not a real problem.

    On the character select screen it states Sarah's fighting style as being "Martial Arts" instead of the old "Jeet Kune Do" which Jacky still has, I'm indifferent. In a way it makes sense as what little of a storyline exists say's she was conditioned by various teachers. (Check your VF2 manuals if you can be bothered).

    In Evo they've got rid of the old demo clips where each character did their thing in the cage stage. It's now a real time mini cinematic movie which shows much more character, there are two versions. The first starts with Brad in front of a red background doing some moves then it shifts to Kage Pai, Lau, Lei Fei, Akira and Aoi doing there thing (Each one beats the other in succession or does a mini Kata). It ends with Brad doing more moves in Sarah's stage then Dural appears behind him.

    The second one starts with Goh doing some techniques with blue behind him. Then it shifts to Vanessa, (Who doesn't have her regular 1P costume but a sand coloured version of her 2P throughout the game, which is a pity) Sarah, Shun, Lion, Jacky, Jeffery then ends with Goh at Kage's stage. Akira appears and they do a Kyo & Iori stand-off.

    Wolf's in there somewhere but I can't remember which version. He does a Ryu & Ken buddy pose (Again, check your VF2 manual for the revelation that they're rivals) with Akira (They strike fists) before he knees Akira in the face. It cracked me up the first time I saw it. All in all AM2 are pushing the Vibe of the series which is great, the music has also been vastly improved (Sarah's, Lion's, Pai's and Akira's are my favourites while I can't stand Jacky's) with theme tunes that reflect the fighters much better just like VF2 did.

    The characters I faced were pre set: Sarah, Goh, Jacky, Vanessa, Kage, Jeffery, Aoi, Lion, Brad, Pai, Dural. Goh and Brad used Akira and Shun's stages respectively and had their theme tunes too. The credits are the same as the old arcade, showing your fighter in VF1 mode acting out your replays. I didn't really catch the Goh and brad VF1 models but I'm sure they look as good as the others. (Vanessa's model had a pony tail, is that standard?)

    I managed to reach Dural on my seventh try (Without continuing) and ranked myself in as A.S. ( On the time section if you toggle the screen during the rankings. First one too) So that's my claim to fame.

    Conclusion:

    I lost so many credits for doing [1][K] in a tight spot instead of [3][3][K] for the Dragon Smash Cannon. That is the single biggest change for me, it was so instinctive before. That and the new command for [2_][6][K]+[G] (Rising Knee) Is something I have to come to grips with.

    Too many little things have been changed for Sarah to be played exactly like she was before. I never thought I'd miss the old [6][K]+[G] (Step Round Kick) but I do, badly. She's lost her range so she has to get in close and stay there like Lau. No more mid length games with her kicks, her increased variety means that she no longer has that luxury. [3][K] goes some way to bridging the gap but it's only a sidekick that doesn't knock down.

    I think it's now all about constant bombardment from the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> to her regular stance then back again. It will soon become second nature to enter the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> at any point in the match, there are so many options and I feel there'll be times when you must do so. Her [K]+[G] kicks are now more counter measures for aggressive opponents rather then all out attacks (At least, that's how I see it). The <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> is stronger with improved animation on the moves I've outlined and her [6][K] (Quick Knee) snuffs most attacks or puts you back on level terms.

    I'm looking forward to how they'll further tweak her in ver B, I'm not happy with the [7][K]/[K]+[G] thing.

    It's harder to float so we're now forced to consider her ground game much more. All the tools we'll need are at our disposal, and they all look good too. It has and always will be a matter of application.
     
  9. Meat

    Meat Member

    Wow, thanks for all the info Adio! I'm grateful for having so much great Sarah info from you guys!

    Just a few comments.

    I'm glad that [1][K]+[G] recovers well because neither of Sarah's low kicks she can pull of from standing recover well at all. I'm curious, is the canned follow-up mid or low?

    What's the recovery and follow-up potential for the new Tornado Kick? Changed at all?

    Is the delayed Rising Knee still possible, or is it gone? If it's still around, is the command [K]+[G],[K]+[G] or [K]+[G],[K]? The delayed Rising Knee is one of my favourite moves for Sarah, hitting with the second knee after the first one is blocked is very satifying, and I hope it's still around.

    Like every other Sarah player on the planet, I'll have to get used to the command change for the DC, since it'll be a while before I stop doing whatever the new [1][K] move is by accident (what is it anyways?).

    Overall, I'm a little dissapointed by the fact that Sarah has lost some of her range, as I tend to play Sarah defensively, where long pokes are very useful.

    One last thing: are there any new follow-up options for the Full Spin Dive?
     
  10. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    [1][K]+[G][K] (Valkyrie Sword) hits high.

    The Tornado Kick ([9][K]+[G]) still knocks down as it did. It has just been reanimated. It's still possible for the opponent to tech roll from it too.

    The Risning Knee and it's variants are unchanged, just it's command ([2_][6][K]+[G][K]/,[K]).

    With regard to the Full Spin Heel Kick ([9][K]), If the opponent doesn't tech roll then [1][K]+[G][K] and [2][P]+[K][K] will work on light weights and possibly middle weights too on an MC.

    Sarah has lost her range but she now has more intense close range techniques like [6][K], [3][K], [2][P]+[K][K] and [6][P]+[K][P][K]. She's much better overall with superior technique and attack height coverage. People who played her defensively will have to learn to be more aggressive.
     
  11. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    Yesturday I spent the better part of the day on the Evo Development version. Here's the sum of my thoughts:

    Notes:

    [K] (Vertical Hook Kick) now only floats on an MC, so keep this in mind when you attempt [K][P] (High Kick Straight) with the intention of following it with a float combo.

    Tornado Kick ([9][K]+[G]) is distance dependant for damage. 30pts at maximum range, 20pts at close range just like before.

    I really can's find any difference between the two Somersault Kick commands ([7][K]/[K]+[G]). They both look the same, neither of them are chargeable and their damage ratios are identical too as far as I can tell.

    If one of them took you into the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> or did something else useful then I could understand the need for variants but it doesn't seem to be the case. Could someone with actual full version (I'm playing a development version) experience care to enlighten me?

    Spinning Scare Crow ([K]+[G]) is not a crescent, therefore [3][K]+[G] (Low Spin Kick) is her only one from her regular stance.

    [P][P][P][8][K] (Combo Scare Crow) hits High. It doesn't float combo well unless your opponent hits the wall. The other variants are stronger and more effective during floats while this one is more useful on the ground.

    Trivia:

    Be mindful of the distance between you and your opponent when you use [1][K]+[G][K] (Valkyrie Sword). If [1][K]+[G] (Valkyrie Low) hits from too far a distance (If the low kick only scratches the shin of the opponents front leg) then the following [K] could miss.

    This now applies to all characters but it effects Sarah in particular. Characters can no longer store the [2_][6] command. By this I mean that when you duck and block [P][P][P][2][K] from the Chans you can't retaliate with [2_][6][K]+[G] or even [2_][4][K][K] (Double Spin Kick) unless you do the command instantly.

    Now, had this been the case before when the Rising Knee was still [2_][6][K] then that would be OK as the trouble of doing such a move when you really wanted [6][K]/[P] or [3][K]/[P] would be understood. But, with the new command change there can be no such mistakes and this new rule is more a hindrance to most, though those who use the Chans will be pleased to some extent.

    In Sarah's defence, the speed and priority of [6][K] (Quick Knee), the range, stagger properties and <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> options of both [4][K] (Switch Kick) and [3][K] (Middle Kick) make interesting tactical alternatives to the raw power of the Rising Knee.

    Conclusion:

    I've discovered a new intensity to Sarah. Gone are the days of monotonous Mid attacks that could be punished with little effort and which left Sarah with few options. Now, she is capable of blitzing her opponents on multiple levels without fear of being second guessed with ease. Part of this new strength come from the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> as many of her new versatile techniques lead to the stance, this I think should be embraced whole heatedly.

    The scope for incorporating the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> is vast while with improved animation it's far more manageable and thus more deadly to the opponent. While She has lost her longest range kick and her standing crescent in the forms of [6][K]+[G] and [K]+[G] respectively, she's retained [6][6][K] (Dash Knee) which while not as far reaching as the old Step Round Kick possess greater speed and power at 30pts and is only throw counterable, a superb surprise attack. With regard to her <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color>, [4][P]+[K] (Double Rise Kick) arguably has the same reach as the old Step Round Kick and with it's crouch stagger properties and obvious <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> activator properties it backs my view that she has a path to the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> for any given situation. Covering ground is now more a risk, however the above techniques and the stopping power of the new [6][K]+[G] (Crescent Heel) which forces a crouch and leaves Sarah near unscathed in terms of recovery will make interesting, tactical and Challenging alternatives.

    Sarah has gained a great boost in overall technique, (Moves are faster, recover better) with nearly all (See my gripe about [7][K]/[K]+[G]) her moves being perfectly viable in a match but with their properties being geared much more towards close, intense combat. And these are just her canned techniques. Breaking her moves up into unorthodox pokes and combos can work wonders, making her a pain to catch out if you can perfect a rhythm. Her only real fault now is that with the exception of her sweeps in both stances and <font color="pink">FL:</font color> [6][K] (Guard Crush Sword) and <font color="pink">FL:</font color> [8]/[2][P]+[K] (Side Neck Cut Sword) she's completely linear in her assaults. It's by no means easy to dodge her at all but, it's perfectly feasible. She now requires more dedication but only because she has much more tactical depth to offer in return.

    Personally, I can no longer stomach her old pre Evolution incarnation now.
     
  12. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    I've actually forgotten a major factor about Sarah. Her new [K][K] is now a crescent. So she does still have a mid crescent albeit a less useful one. Sarah has new animation for [K], it has far more reach and is generally better looking. Unfortunately, as I mentioned before with regard to her [K][P] (High Kick Straight) it no longer knocks down unless it MC's so the second [K] will never hit in succession on a normal hit.

    The second [K] is definitely stronger then the old version's 15pts (I'd say 20pts) but I don't see it being used against competent opponents in anything other than a float combo. Sarah lacks the multilevel mind games of Jacky, so while her brother can fool his opponent into ducking in case he does [P][2][K] or [4][P][1][P] only to catch them out with his own [K][K], Sarah has none of these options.

    As a crescent it can't be dodged but this property can't be utilised in an instant like her old [K]+[G] could. So, if you compare her new [K][K] with the old, this one wins easily, no contest. Still, Sarah's lack of any viable standing crescents from her regular stance is a weakness. Despite her overall linear regular technique, [K][K] is a nice touch.
     
  13. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    Thanks goes to Sarah.net

    Evo damage values:

    <font color="red">Red</font color> = New Technique.
    <font color="blue">Blue</font color> = Altered Technique.

    [P][P][P][8][K] <font color="blue">(Combo Scarecrow)</font color> = 20pts

    [3][P] (Snap Side Chop) = 10pts

    [K][K] (Doubles last Kick) = 20pts

    [6][K] <font color="blue">(Quick Knee)</font color> = 18pts

    [8][K] <font color="red">(Feather Scarecrow)</font color> = 20pts

    [9][K] (Full Spin Heel Kick) = 21pts

    [2][P]+[K] <font color="blue">(Serpent Toe Kick)</font color> = 14pts

    [2][P]+[K][K] <font color="blue">(Serpent Smash Cannon)</font color> = 16pts

    [6][P]+[K] <font color="red">(Breeze Shot)</font color> = 12pts

    [6][P]+[K][P] <font color="red">(Wind Knuckle)</font color> = 10pts

    [6][P]+[K][P][K] <font color="red">(Storm Combination)</font color> = 21pts

    [K]+[G] <font color="blue">(Spinning Scarecrow)</font color> = 20pts

    [6][K]+[G] <font color="red">(Spin Heel Sword)</font color> = 30pts

    [4][K]+[G] <font color="blue">(Crescent Heel)</font color> = 20pts

    [1][K]+[G] <font color="red">(Valkyrie Low)</font color> = 12pts

    [1][K]+[G][K] <font color="red">(Valkyrie Sword)</font color> = 20pts

    [4][P]+[G] <font color="red">(Mermaid Phalanx)</font color> = 35pts

    [4][P]+[G] (Wall) <font color="blue">(Quadruple Knee Smash)</font color> = 60pts

    [8][4][2][6]/[2][4][8][6][P]+[G] <font color="red">(Sweet Pain)</font color> = 62pts

    notes:

    [9][K]+[G] is no longer the Tornado Kick but the <font color="blue">Venom Smash</font color>, it still retains the properties of the old technique.

    Conclusion:

    Sarah is now weaker in blow for blow power in exchange for superior technique. Near useless moves ([2][P]+[K], [9][K]+[G]) are now perfectly viable while others have been improved ([6][K], [2]/[8][P]+[K]). Nothing has been wasted, every technique has it's use even if it shares the same results with another, take the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> activators for example:

    [4][K] = Speed>Power>Range (Fastest activator, Crouch Staggers.)

    [P]+[K] = Power>Speed>Range (Sabaki vs HP, HK, HE, EL, MK, SK, Crouch Staggers.)

    [1][K]+[G][K] = Speed>Power>Range (Longer reach than [4][K].)

    [8][K] = Speed>Range>Power (Beats Standing low techniques, very effective against Brad.)

    [4][P]+[K] = Range>Power>Speed (Longest activator.)

    [3][P][K] = Power>Speed>Range (Special High.)

    [3][K][K] = Range>Power>Speed (Stronger than [4][P]+[K].)

    [P][P][P][8][K] = Speed>Range>Power (A Combo that ends with [8][K].)

    [6][P]+[K][P][K][G] = Speed>Range>Power (No damage but near instant if timed right, element of surprise.)

    [K]+[G] = Speed>Power>Range (Equal to the second part of [3][P][K].)

    The above expresses only the variety found in methods to enter the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> but all her other moves are just as useful. [3][3][K] and [6][K] no longer do the same thing, she's got new slick animation and now has a new throw from her regular stance that's the strongest in her repertoire (Now that her wall throw is ten points weaker).
     
  14. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Did I see you call the knee improved? Or did I miss something?
    Knee kinda blows now, it's sort of like what happened to wolf. Wolf had a perfectly good and nearly identical float combo starter, so they made his knee different and left his shrm alone. Sarah has the same deal, a dragon cannon rather than the knee (DC was superior anyway so that's cool).

    But on a strictly not-relative-to-anything-else-but-the-old-knee it looks like the new knee sucks. Unless it gave +9 on interrupt or something /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif
     
  15. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    Yes you heard right. I say this because Sarah didn't need the knee (Well, except in those occasions where you'd MC a low attack for a float, which wasn't very common by it's sheer nature.) as the DC (Dragon Smash Cannon. Was [1][K] now [3][3][K] in Evo) did everything it did better (Faster execution at 16 frames to the knee's 17, better recovery when it hit, going under high attacks and has ungodly hit detection). [6][K] (Quick Knee) is now a poking technique, it's not strong but it's fast and makes a great interrupt like Lion's knee.

    Now, I don't have the frame data but from hands on experience and watching all the clips it feels like the QK leaves you in a beneficial state (Maybe 50/50 like her [3][P] Snap Side Chop). Definitely on an MC, I've seen clips where players attempt throws afterwards with success so there must be some frame advantage there. In the old knee's defence, it was good for nailing low punchers and it changed your feet position if that was what you needed (From Open stance>[6][K], [P][P][4][P][K] was stronger then [6][K], [P][P][P][K] from the Closed stance by 4pts) but much more combos are possible from the DC. So why have two floaters when you can have the best of the two and a quick poke that lets you follow up with a throw on an MC.

    Sarah has lost most of her long range moves and has been turned into a more aggressive close combat fighter. Moves like [6][K], [2][P]+[K][K] and [6][P]+[K][P][K] have been tailored for this new approach.
     
  16. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    I've been sitting on this for about a week due to the inconsistency of the data but none the less I think it warrants exposure, if purely for my own self indulgence...

    Courtesy of 1/60.

    Evo frame data:

    <font color="red">Red</font color> = New Technique.
    <font color="blue">Blue</font color> = Altered Technique.

    Straight Lead
    [P]: Exe =11, Guard = +1, Hit = +5, <font color="blue">MC = +8</font color>.

    Notes: This is a minor change really, at +8 frames advantage on a MC [P] then a buffered [P]+[G] of your choice is still perfectly feasible and is indeed still practised in the Evo clips I've seen to date. Sarah is still untouchable after a [P].

    Setup Combination
    [3][P][K]: <font color="blue">Exe = 29</font color>, Guard = +4, Hit =+4, MC = +6.

    Notes: Don't worry about the extra frames (+9), if [3][P] (Side Snap Chop) hits then so will [K] (No question if it's a MC). This is solely for the benefit of the opponent so they have more time to counter Sarah if they ducked [3][P] however, being a Special High technique low attacks are out of the equation so expect mid/high attacks which are easily remedied with [8]/[2][P]+[K] (Side Neck Cut Sword) if they're linear or buffer a throw escape. To be honest the above scenario shouldn't happen a lot, it would be foolish to follow through after [3][P] if it was ducked.

    Switch Kick
    [4][K]: Exe =17, Guard = +4, Hit = +6, <font color="blue">MC = +10</font color>.

    Notes: Loosing one frame of advantage, not much you might think but when it comes to the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> every frame counts. The repercussions of this change are far to complex for me to fully comprehend however, the next time I MC an opponent with [4][K] and attempt <font color="pink">FL:</font color> [8][4][2][6][P]+[G] (Gatling Kick Beat) I'll know that I now have 10 frames to cover instead of 9.

    Feather Scarecrow
    [8][K]: <font color="red">Exe = 19, Guard = -4, Hit = +2, MC = +6</font color>.

    Notes: This new technique should be applied just like [8][K]+[G] (Round Kick) is because if timed right Sarah can jump over low attacks. The all important difference being that she enters the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> from this technique. At 19 frames execution [8][K] is an average speed technique in her repertoire however the actual hit detection of the kick begins in the early frames of the execution much like a knee does, the rest of the animation is made up of Sarah landing in the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color>.

    At -4 frames if guarded Sarah is neither punch or throw counterable unfortunately, since it only grants her +2 frames of advantage upon a normal hit there's not much to work with. It's via an MC then that [8][K] becomes more effective where it garners +6 frames of advantage and though I have yet to confirm this, hitting mid without knocking down the opponent I'd guess that it crouch staggers. If I'm right then following with [3][P][K] would be the most prudent choice to inflict damage and still stay in the stance.

    Middle Kick
    [3][K] <font color="blue">(crouch stagger)</font color> : Exe = 16, <font color="blue">Guard = -5, Hit = 0, MC = +6</font color>.

    Notes: Well, there's not much to say except "It's about time!" Competent Sarah users know of how pathetic the old [3][K] was, so much so that you had to follow through to [3][K][K] to warrant be punch and throw counterable even if you hit and throw counterable on an MC! Put that crap behind you, it's been almost ten years but Sarah can finally feel proud of her side kick.

    Still executing at a formidable 16 frames, where once this would be the end of any positive talk about the Middle Kick you'll be pleased to know that when guarded it only leaves Sarah at -5 frames disadvantage. Now, when you consider that before Evo Sarah would be at -14 frames disadvantage for a technique that only did 10pts of damage, -5 frames is bloody excellent. Of course, this means she is neither punch or throw counterable.

    Like [3][P] (Side Snap Chop) a normal hit leaves her with neither an advantage or a disadvantage, so like the above example your free to take your chances and try to out smart your opponent. On a MC, Sarah can enjoy +6 frames of advantage. As far as I'm concerned for me, [3][K] might as well be a new move because it's almost completely alien from it's predecessor in every way other than speed but also because it now crouch staggers, a property which was sorely missed. The shame of the premier kicking character having the worst side kick is gone, in fact, I'd bet that she now has the best one overall, and rightly so!

    Mirage Kick
    [3][K][K] (high,high) : <font color="red">Exe = 12,24, Guard = -4, Hit = +2, MC = +6</font color>.

    Notes: Forget about the Illusion Kick, like everything else obsolete, it's history. Though it bears the name of the deleted [3][K][K][K] the similarities end there, the new Mirage Kick is a completely different animal. For starters, like [4][P]+[K] (Double Rise Kick) hits twice (thus [3][K][K] hits three times), and also like [4][P]+[K] has two sets of frame data for it's execution, one for each kick.

    Executing at 12 and 24 frames respectively you can see that the first kick is fast followed by a slower kick that is twice as long, not to worry though, the extra frames of the second kick are just for show as the two kicks always register together unless they have followed up a crouch staggering [3][K] upon which the first [K] will miss the opponent (since the kicks hit high the added animation of a crouch stagger means the opponent is effectively ducking the high attacks) while the second should hit as normal.

    If guarded Sarah is at -4 frames disadvantage but this doesn't add up to much. On a normal hit Sarah has +2 frames advantage which again isn't much for a <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> activator but on a MC she gains a +6 frame advantage which is average. When you sum it up [3][K][K] is a wonderful addition that adds further colour to Sarah's multiple paths to the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> and further buries the ghosts of old.

    Dragon Smash Cannon
    [3][3][K]: Exe = 16, <font color="blue">Guard = -12</font color>.

    Notes: Your friend and mine, affectionately referred to (at least by me) as the DC. Arguably the ultimate floater (Kage's [4][P]+[G] is a throw first and a cheesy tool of mass destruction second.), anytime anywhere it allows for a vast array of float combos which have been Sarah's bread and butter route to inflicting considerable damage for years. It's so good at what it does that a MC only makes it better, that's something.

    Now every Sarah player should know by now that the command has been changed from [1][K] to [3][3][K] and while this at first seemed daunting to me, I now see the merit in this change. VF4 Evo has tailored Sarah to be far more aggressive and to enforce that notion one of her key moves that was once executed from a defensive position has now been turned into an offensive one. Case in point, crouch dashing forward is now hugely more advantageous as you can buffer [3][3][K] as you go under your opponents attacks. DC has always gone under high attacks but the added crouch or indeed forward movement makes the space between Sarah and her opponent short, thus making the potential to float combo greater.

    The weakness of [3][3][K] has always been it's recovery. Executing at a formidable 16 frames it has and continues to have excellent hit detection however, if it was guarded against then Sarah would be at the mercy of an opponent for -16 frames. Not anymore, at least to some extent as [3][3][K] now leaves Sarah at -12 frames disadvantage which means that while she's still throw counterable, middle weights and especially heavy weights at 12 and 13 frames respectively will either have to be alert or fail to hit her completely with a punch before she can guard or dodge. Rejoice!

    Breeze Shot
    [6][P]+[K]: <font color="red">Exe = 12, Guard = 0, Hit = -2, MC = +5</font color>.

    Notes: 1 frame slower than her [P] this straight punch rivals the speed of a middle weights [P]. Leaving Sarah in a neutral state if it's guarded against however it leavers her at a -2 frame disadvantage when it's hits, strange but there you go, fortunately she has +5 frames advantage on a MC.

    Wind Knuckle
    [6][P]+[K][P]: <font color="red">Exe = 15, Guard = -2, Hit = 0, MC = +2</font color>.

    Notes: The canned follow-up to [6][P]+[K] (Breeze Knuckle) this short back-fist hits in a one two manner from the above technique and while executing slower and leaving Sarah at a -2 frame disadvantage when it's guarded against it is however the perfect remedy to a successful [6][P]+[K] and leaves Sarah at a neutral state when it hits.

    Storm Combination
    [6][P]+[K][P][K]: <font color="red">Exe = 13, Guard = -6, Hit = -6, MC = -6</font color>.

    Notes: The final part of the string that allows you to [G] cancel into the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color>. Despite it's innovation this kick leaves Sarah at -6 frames across the board, still neither punch nor throw counterable you should still consider defensive measures as it does not knock down. In total, the Storm Combination makes an interesting alternative to [P][P][K] (Double Punch Snap Kick) and is stronger by 3pts though not as fast.

    Double Rise Kick
    [4][P]+[K]: Exe = 21,28, Guard = +4, Hit = +8, <font color="blue">MC = +12</font color>.

    Notes: With the longest range <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> activator now having +12 frames on a MC over it's pre Evo +10 [4][P]+[K] is now the most beneficial technique in Sarah's repertoire that enters the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color>.

    Spinning Scarecrow
    [K]+[G] <font color="red">: Exe = 19, Guard = -5, Hit = +5, MC = +10</font color>.

    Notes: Sarah's mid crescent is deeply missed by myself but this new high crescent is faster at 19 frames execution, recovers better at -5 disadvantage when guarded against and because it's a <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> activator the +5 frames on a regular hit and the significant +10 frames advantage on a MC makes this an important and valuable tool for shifting into the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color>.

    Valkyrie Low
    [1][K]+[G]: <font color="red">Exe = 15, Guard = -4, Crouch Guard = -14, Hit = -4, Crouch Hit = -4, MC = 0</font color>.

    Notes: Depending on how you think about this move it is either an effective path to the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font color> via the canned follow-up or it's a standing low kick which when not guarded by a crouching opponent has little enough frame disadvantage to not be worried about whether it's blocked or hits at -4 frames disadvantage. On a MC Sarah is neutral with her opponent, this new technique provides Sarah with a angle she didn't have before, it shouldn't be overlooked.

    Valkyrie Sword
    [1][K]+[G][K]: <font color="red">Exe = 15, Guard = +4, Hit = +4, MC = +8</font color>.

    Notes: Matching initial attack of this string in speed but being the opposite in attack height it represents some much needed flair in Sarah's attacking pattern. Regardless of it being successful it will Leave Sarah with a +4 frame advantage with the exception a MC where she gets an even better +8 frames advantage. If the combo is executed swiftly, like [3][P][K] (Setup Combination) this will always hit. Either way the initiative is Sarah's.

    Conclusion: In general her new moves do her justice while her old ones have been tweaked for the better. Those that have been downgraded still retain enough frame advantage to be used without any changes while those moves that have been improved will make a difference.
     
  17. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    Note: The site that supplies this frame data is in fact called 1/60sec not 1/60. My apologises go to the creator of the site.

    Update:

    Evo frame data:

    <font color="red">Red</font color> = New Technique.
    <font color="blue">Blue</font color> = Altered Technique.

    Raising Elbow
    [6][P]: Exe = 14, <font color="blue">Guard = -4</font color>, Hit = -4, MC = +4.

    Notes: The poking tool of choice for many Sarah users has just got better with less recovery if it is guarded against. Feel free to use it more.

    Double Joint Butt
    [6][P][K]: Exe = 14, <font color="blue">Guard = -16</font color>.

    Notes: Again, like [6][P] the recovery for this move has taken a slash for the better. It's still throw and punch counterable when blocked but the less time Sarah needs to recover the better.

    Vertical Hook Kick
    [K]: Exe = 14, <font color="blue">Guard = -4, Hit = +1</font color>.

    Notes: With new animation comes new frame data and this technique doesn't break this trend. Not only does [K] have greater range than before but it is now no longer throw counterable however, the downside to this improvement is that [K] no longer floats on a regular hit anymore, but fear not for it has +1 frame of advantage which is something when it does hit.

    Vertical Hook Kick
    [6_][K]: Exe = 14, <font color="blue">Guard = -8, Hit = +5</font color>.

    Notes: The forward/back variants of the standard [P] and [K] usually have some boon to make up for the distance travelled (forward) or for lack of range (back) but, In this case Sarah is actually worse for wear if she travels forward, performs [K] and is blocked compared to being stationary. On the other hand, this is an example of Sarah's risk for reward design in that if [6_][K] hits she has +5 frames of advantage compared to the stationary +1.

    High Kick Straight
    [K][P]: Exe = 20, <font color="blue">Guard = -4, Hit = +1, MC = +5</font color>.

    Notes: [K][P] has become the new alternative to [3][P][K] (Setup Combination) in float combos due to the combination of it's improved component part's animation. It's recovery had always been adequate due to it's floating properties on a regular hit however, with the alterations to [K] it's now necessary for it to be formidable. Fortunately [K][P] does not disappoint.

    The only factor against it is that it's recovery now has an extra -2 frames of disadvantage when guarded against, but when it hits Sarah now has +1 frame of advantage and +5 frames of advantage on a MC making this technique worth while in any situation.

    Doubles Last Kick
    [K][K]: <font color="blue">Exe = 19, Guard = -15, Hit = -3, MC = +1</font color>.

    Notes: Definitely one of my favourite alterations, as a mid hitting crescent [K][K] is now invaluable for quick yet considerable damage especially against heavy weights. Being a crescent it's easy to understand why it executes 2 frames slower than before and why it's recovery is only beneficial on a MC, albeit slightly. Still, for what it is all can be forgiven.

    The only gripe you could have with [K][K] is that since it's the continuation of [K] (Vertical Hook Kick) which doesn't knock down on a regular hit you're not going to get this to hit unless it's via a float or against a crouching opponent. To me it's welcome none the less.

    Conclusion: The data speaks for itself, Sarah looks better and better as more altered techniques are revealed.
     
  18. Collette

    Collette Active Member

    OK, well here's an opinion from an intermediate Sarah playah... O... My...God...VF4e is good.
    OK, 1st please understand that I am a 31 year old casual gamer, but also that I'm from the VF1 era, not the Street Fighter 2 era, got it? I'm not here to talk about frames or buffering, but fun.
    I was kind of put off by Sarah in VF4, maybe because I always thought of her as a 'boxer' (my term), and she was kind of chunky all of a sudden. I committed myself to the fulfillment of the Flamingo possibilities... but as much as I was giving to Flamingo, I felt like I was being robbed somehow. So much possibility, being f%^ked over by predictabilty. Still, I stayed true. After all, my record for a relationship with a flesh and blood woman (1.5 yrs) has yet to come even close to my 8-yr association with this particular blonde bombastic. I'm the loyal type.

    And, sometimes, the dream would come true. Every once in a while, I would lose myself in the strings and make this bitch FLOW. But not often. I could kick my coworkers' ass on a regular basis, but I couldn't do it in a way that made them say 'O Fuck... Not SARAH! NOT AGAIN! RUN IN FEAR!'

    The VF4E Sarah FLOWS but she can still choose to get in your face and do the StreetFighter 2 boxing match if she wants to... she's like everything I ever wanted in a (virtual) girl... suddenly, into and out of Flamingo is something I can s surprise my opponent with.

    My VF4 Sarah has a higher win ratio at work than my Wolf. Yet my Wolf inspires more Fear in my coworkers (we have an ongoing daily Cage Match, 4:30pm, be there or be square). Why is this? I think that VF4 Sarah was a lot more forced into basics than most other characters...I describe most fights in terms of "flourish" and "technique"... VF4 forced Sarah players to choose between them... VF4E lets us do both at the same time.

    Dudes, she's suddenly got the FLOW all the time. They finally gave her what they gave Jacky in VF4... cuz it's not about winning... I do that all the time. It's about winning with Sty-al.

    See you on the field.
     
  19. Collette

    Collette Active Member

    RE: unrealistic moves.
    I am a 10 year VF player.
    When VF4 came out, I had more success dragging my friends and coworkers into the VF universe than ever before... thanks, Yu.
    But the newest people to VF, the people with the fresh eyes, had this one comment that gave me pause... they all commented on how the old characters (Jacky, Sarah, Kage, etc.) were more prone to do RIDICULOUS Crouching Tiger shit than the new ones (Shun/Lion, Aoi, Vanessa/Lei).
    I agree wholeheartedly that a huge number of the moves have been toned down farther toward realism. But as long as Jacky and Sarah have that gravity-defying backflip, and as long as Kage has that stupid "I've thrown you up so high in the air that you can see your house... now I'm going to (without looking, mind you)... do some incredible aerial stupidity in which I snatch you from the air. twist around and slam you into MY HOUSE (bitch)" thing, I think that my friends' criticisms are going to remain valid.
    In my opinion, Jacky and Sarah don't NEED that backflip any more... why is it still present, when everything else about EVO has obviously taken so many enormous strides toward realism?

    Yeah, I noticed that the floating knees were a lot more realistic... a lot of the new EVO shit is incredibly good on that score... but until those backflips go, we can't pat ourselves on the back. (Lau and Pai have very natural looking backflips BTW... always have).

    See you on the field.
     
  20. Genie47

    Genie47 Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Adio said:Setup Combination
    [3][P][K]: <font color="blue">Exe = 29</font>, Guard = +4, Hit =+4, MC = +6.

    Notes: Don't worry about the extra frames (+9), if [3][P] (Side Snap Chop) hits then so will [K] (No question if it's a MC). This is solely for the benefit of the opponent so they have more time to counter Sarah if they ducked [3][P] however, being a Special High technique low attacks are out of the equation so expect mid/high attacks which are easily remedied with [8]/[2][P]+[K] (Side Neck Cut Sword) if they're linear or buffer a throw escape. To be honest the above scenario shouldn't happen a lot, it would be foolish to follow through after [3][P] if it was ducked.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Quite suicidal if you become predictable with this. If the [3][P] is evaded, so will the following [K] leaving Sarah's back wide open. The PS2 CPU opponents under the Quest mode has shown this time and again when I use it too much.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Adio said:Spinning Scarecrow
    [K]+[G] <font color="red">: Exe = 19, Guard = -5, Hit = +5, MC = +10</font>.

    Notes: Sarah's mid crescent is deeply missed by myself but this new high crescent is faster at 19 frames execution, recovers better at -5 disadvantage when guarded against and because it's a <font color="pink">Flamingo</font> activator the +5 frames on a regular hit and the significant +10 frames advantage on a MC makes this an important and valuable tool for shifting into the <font color="pink">Flamingo</font>.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Even though this is the second part of the Setup Combination above, it cannot be evaded! In the PS2 Training mode, I made the opponent evade constantly. It always got whacked by this move.
     

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