VF4 Fuzzy Guard

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
. Recovering Crouching
The first two cases showed how you can fuzzy guard when you're in a standing state, by simply holding for a certain time and then releasing to neutral with still held. In this case, it can work when you're already in a crouching state. To perform it, you simply delay your standing up. You want to be able to stand up slow enough to avoid a throw, but fast enough to block a mid. The actual time you delay for is dependant on how many frames disadvantage you're at.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this related to the fact it takes X frames to be considered "standing" for purposes of throws by returning the stick to neutral from a crouch? While for attacks there is no such delay to block mid moves?

If so, then it would seem the fuzzy guard window is however many frames it takes to be considered standing (traditionally 10?)

Though if this is why it works, I suppose I don't understand why situation #2 works... because unless the "time to crouch from standing" is 7 frames (or less) it would strike me that when you're in a -1 situation, just holding down would not get you in a crouch quickly enough for the throw to whiff. Unless, of course, there is something else going on.

-Jason

 

Though if this is why it works, I suppose I don't understand why situation #2 works... because unless the "time to crouch from standing" is 7 frames (or less) it would strike me that when you're in a -1 situation, just holding down would not get you in a crouch quickly enough for the throw to whiff. Unless, of course, there is something else going on.

See Hiro's "mini Akira Faq", crouch-->stand now takes 7 frames.

Looks like its still possible to fuzzy guard in VF4, just requires a little more "effort".

 

Thanks guys. Seems like we had this fuzzy guard discussion a couple months ago. Anyway, with this understanding, the theory behind fuzzy guard is actually quite simple. Thanks for the examples/references to some instances where it can be easily used.

I think at the early implementation stage, fuzzy guard as discussed in Myke's original post is really useful in instances where you are in recovery and usually at a slight disadvantage.

One small situation I think it may be useful is for Lion players (cursed with the 13 frame low punch) in a pure neutral situation, such as after blocking Kage's ++. Traditionally, this situation sucked for Lion as Kage could + and pretty much beat out anything Lion countered with. In the end it kind of forced Lion to escape, but that opened him up to a throw by Kage. In this case, just being patient and holding + would let Lion block the + as well as duck under the throw attempt.

Of course a Kage trained in this situation would start to +, and this is where fuzzy guard comes in. Per the second situation discussed by Myke above, you could release the after 11 frames or so (or, in other words, right before an elbow's hit detection would begin) so that Lion is considered standing to block the + or +. This is fuzzy guard, as it ducks high throws while blocking mids. I think developing this skill might take some practice, but shouldn't be too hard once you get a hang for it.

-Jason

 

Excellent! Thx <font color="66ffcc">Jason</font color>. <font color="ccff33">Chingdude</font color> has posted a link to three vids that illustrate Fuzzy Guard wonderfully. Perfect timing. A 49% win ratio Jacky does a <font color="ffffcc">fuzzy guard dance</font color> with throws generally punishing whiffed throws! I respectfully suggest first watching the shortest vid first for maximum enjoyment. Here Jacky with 49% win ratio battles a Lau. The <font color="99ffff">fuzzy guard</font color> is well evidenced in the first round. Excellent tutorial. Then the longest (5.20MB) vid where Jacky battles an accomplished Jacky player (i.e., 3000 matches and a very good win ratio). Finally, the 3.79MB vid has the same Jacky vs. an accomplished Kage player.
This collection of vids went direct to compressed file zip and came out in good shape. <font color="33ffcc">off-topic. :</font color>The vids at no mercy are not as friendly for some reason. I'm perplexed. by the Media download differences. Thx <font color="ffooff">Myke!</font color>

 

Hi, Myke. Well, as you know, this "fuzzy guard" has been alsways there in Vf. It takes some time (7 frames in Vf4) to be in the standing position from the crouching position, and during that period, you can not get thrown. Also, since mid attacks are slower than throws, by the time mid-attacks reach you, you will be standing and thus be able to defend it. (well, I would not call this technique "fuzzy guard" although people here call it this way. Fuzzy guard for me is the one in VF2 where you crouch instantaneously by crouching dash and stand up again and defend. Of course, this tecnique ruined the meaning of VF and was excluded from Vf3.) Adnan has been using this technique from VF3 and has had a good defense. I used to break this by doing low-throws, since you can not avoind both high and low throws unless you are attacking.

About the blue book you mentioned, it just says that it takes 7 frames to be in the crouching position. (and thus you can avoid throws.) So, you can get thrown in the first 6 frames. That's where they mentioned '6'. (So, there was no mention about special condition, or whatsoever.) Thus, this "fuzzy guard" is possible only when you have -1 at worst. Otherwise, you can get thrown before you crouch. So, not only whe you have +0 or -1, as long as you are in the better or equal situation as -1, you can do this. (this is useful especially when you want to wait and see what the opponent will do next.)

Also, by crouching dash forward, you can be in the crouching postition in 6 frames. (Thus, if you can do crouching-dash forward at the fastest timing, you can do this "fuzzy guard" even when you have -2.) By the way, if you crouch-back-dash, it takes 8 frames to be in the crouching position.

As an application to this technique, Jacky and Vanessa can just crouch and stand up without G. This way, they can reverse high and mid punch as well as avoiding throws. For example, when you are crouching and you get hit by Vanessa's d+P. Say, she might do (while staind) P, which comes out in 13 frames and which is mid, or she might try to throw you. In that case, if Jacky just stands up, throws come out before Jacky finishes standing-up porcess and by the time (while standing) P reaches him, he can reverse it. Maybe, you can apply this against Wolf when his d+P hits Jacky without a counter. In this case, Wolf hesistates to use knee, of course. (Because it can be crashed by a simple d+P.) And thus, you have to guess whether Wolf will try to throw you or use HCB P. By this technique, you can avoid both.

Last not: from crouching postion, by doing dodge or dash, you can stand up instantaneously. There is not way to be in the crouching position from the standing position instantaneously.


Hiro