VF4 General FAQ

Re: hopping attacks

GLC,

u+P (hold P) results in a hop without any attack.
u+P (release P) results in an ascending jump attack.
u+P (pause) P results in a descending jump attack.

-- Chris

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

Then GLC shouldn't have any difficulty taking 15-20 minutes of his time and adding some more basic commentary on how the game plays. Most of the VF3 FAQs listed on GameFAQs are little more than elaborated movelists, and really don't show the effort that I see placed in VF2 and T3/TTT FAQs, that stuff doesn't exactly help convince people that VF is game worth learning. If I eventually garner enough knowledge of VF4 myself then I'll go ahead and make a beginner's FAQ, as all I want to see built is a greater enthusiasm for the game that can sustain active competition. Don't misunderstand me, I'm only making some constructive criticisms.

 

Re: hopping attacks

Using the Kage example you set up.....

uf+K is Van Halen Kick.
uf+K (hold K until you land) is hop forward-no attack.
uf+K (hold K for a bit, let go while ascending) is hop ascending kick.
uf+K (hold K for a bit, let go while descending) is the hop, descend kick (sweep I think it is)
uf+K (hold K all the way, but press P while descending) is hop, descend punch.

Does that make sense to you?

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

The general VF2, 3, and now 4 FAQS that GLC have been writing (for a long time now) have far surpassed much of the T3/TTT General Faqs I have read.

I commented earlier that the TTT General faqs I have read have either been a moveslist or things that aren't necessarily related to the gameplay much at all.

However, on GLC's general faqs, they have outlined many elements of the games' systems. Details on the conditions for throws to work. What staggers really are. Struggling effects. Over time, these faqs have collected (and some continue to collect) information as more of it becomes very close to certainly known. In fact, look at the VF3tb General Faq written by GLC which you can find on Gamefaqs or on a site he listed in this thread, I believe. Don't just look at the moveslist. The faq is a general guide that outlines "General System" related information and in great detail. It also has an appendix which consists of many articles collected from the past which detail other aspects of the engine like Option Select (courtesy of RSW), Taunt Sayings (courtesy of Shota), Shun Drunken Point notes (courtesy of Piccolo), etc...

I think what GLC wanted to do in his General Faqs were to avoid theory and put out what is very certain with the game. Guides for various aspects of the game are a better place for theory (heck, I'd love to write up a Theory guide myself), but in a general faq, I very much like the idea that GLC put into it. It tells you what is practically certain about the engine, the mechanics of the game. Something I have not really found too detailed in Tekken documents. It wasn't meant to tell you "how to play the game" as much as it describes "how the game works."

Unfortunately, no matter which game, there are only a few faqs that really are great for a game. However, I always encourage reading whatever material you can (and think you can comprehend) regarding a game like VF. Of course, I much more encourage messing around with the system as well. The expanded movelists you speak of are probably out there only because there are no real character guides available for certain characters. And some of the ones that are are very much outdated, but I would hate to neglect the efforts placed in them. If I could afford to and was capable to do it, I'd write a faq for every character, geared towards the beginner.

-Chanchai

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

you summed up my feelings fairly well. i absolutely believe that it should be keep it as objective as possible. list the facts and let people work out the rest - that's what most people do anyway.

most of the information that some people think should be spoon fed to them is either entirely subjective, or is already listed in the guide, but requires people to actually put 2 and 2 together.

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

Don't get me wrong, I love VF, but... it isn't certainly my life! So isn't the VF4 FAQ. I'll be adding stuff to it gradually. The main factors are further info being published, ideas me and other people come up with and, pretty much the most importantly, my personal time I can devote to it. Taking 15-20 minutes of my time to write a section you propose to be written isn't as simple as it seems. It takes a lot of time to put buch of scraps of detailed info into concise paragraph.

Like someone said, I'd like to be objective as much as possible. Keep all my documents straight to the point. I'm not telling people what to do - that's the job of character-oriented and strategy docs. You mentioned Tekken... take a look at Tragic's T3 general FAQ - it follows pretty much the same scheme as mine. Is it good? Yeah, it's great. Written by someone who certainly knows the game is about. Helps your game? Sure! What's in it besides system outline, movelists and some appendices like character history etc.? Nothing. I feel the job of general FAQ should be information, not advice. Should any advice come, it will be the time when nothing else could be added to the existing sections. There were voices from people wanting a newbie section. I asked the forum users about it (check the respective post in this thread), received some e-mails and online replies - which will all be considered. The newbie section will probably find it's find into the FAQ but it's very doubtful I'll write it. I feel that my job is to provide info.

I think I am qualified to write character or general strategy FAQs but I leave it to other people. Why? Writing something subjective makes you vulnerable to flames and undeserved critics from people that think otherwise; vast majority of those people are worse, as far as playing the game comes, than the author (well, usually But they still trying to force their opinion as the only valid one. Sure, there are FAQs that deserve much critics, simply because something there is wrong, inconclusive, incorrect and so on. The facts in VF4 general FAQ are something you cannot possiblty overthrow - if you try to, you'll be subject to flames and laughs yourself. As you can read in FAQs introduction, I'm always open to comments, suggestion and constructive critics. If I receive any, I never delete them without reading and usually analyzing. I'm not writing this long reply simply because I'm bored at home. I want to present my views. I've seen many VF faqs on people's private WWW pages, they were the main reason I've started writing docs. I felt the western VF community, as weak as it is, deserved something decent to sink their teeth into. Most of the comments are in superlatives, and I haven't received even one complaining about the FAQ being too hard, too complex, etc. I've put a lot of work in VF4 doc so far, the FAQ keeps growing and will be in the next few months. Even if I wanted, I can't add all the info I have in my head at once. Like I said, it will be added gradually, with the help of readers and critics like you. Just don't go overboard with your "opinions"

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

this is truly funny!
you are saying you don't write character guides because one or two people will criticize it and you're scared of a few 'flames'.

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

Huh? What kind of reply is that? You missed the whole point of my post. Oh well. btw, speaking of undeserved flames... do you know the feeling having something you wrote bashed by incompetent readers? It's a bitch! I truly don't why I'm wasting my time explaining stuff to the guy who wrote one faq in his life; a faq on silly racing game.

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

you always have to get fucking personal don't you. i found your reason for not writing character guides slightly amusing. that's all. silly racing game? you hadn't even heard of it the other day.
and, yes, i did get the point of your post.

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

We already duked this out on IRC, but my take on it -

1. We know that people in NA are clueless about VF.
2. What are we going to do about it?

What's the first thing they do when they make the decision to pick the game up? Those without internet access probably just fool around and maybe hunt down some magazines hoping for a movelist.
The rest go on the internet for a FAQ. They go to gamefaqs.com and search and the first hit they will get is gonna be "GLC General VF4 FAQ .... 116K (or whatever)" Whether they click on GLC's faq because it's listed near the top or because it's bigger than the rest, the point is they will probably still go for the "General FAQ" unless there's something floating around that says "newbie guide"

While the work GLC has done there is fine, thorough, and accurate, what will the newbie walk away from it with? The original meaning of FAQ is "frequently asked questions." No newbie hunts down a faq wondering "How many frames does my stagger last? What's my advantage time if I block Jeffry's sidekick?" The only thing the newbie will have walked away with is a moveslist and a set of mechanics they can't possibly memorize, although they may get the gist of them and maybe they print them out when they go to the arcade.

I don't see anything wrong with putting a little subjective material in a FAQ. There are things that are common to every (or almost every) character that can be outlined in a few short subsections. And these things can be as ironclad as you want to make them. Nobody is going to flame GLC if they see something like:

"Easy Beginner Float combo starters (by character)
Akira - D,f+P+K.
Lau - d/f+PK. D/F+P,P (1st hit must major counter)
Pai - K
Wolf - b,f+P+K, f+K"

Nor would anyone fault GLC for saying something like "f+K knee attacks usually knock down, and may float high enough for a combo (with the exception of blah blah).
....
etc. you get the idea? A dozen lines, or even one well written sentence can save a newbie WEEKS of experimentation. A brief line explaining that Low kick --> throw exists and here's-how-it-works tells a newbie something they may not have picked up on on their own.

But GLC will say: all that crap's a job for another faq. What other faq? The VF newbie guide? Char specific faqs? To find out how to low-kick throw with wolf, so far we're up to three guides, because the wolf faq shouldn't have redundant basic info from the general faq, and the newbie will need the newbie FAQ for a general outline of low-kick throw conditions, and the wolf FAQ will give specifics on the quirks of wolf's low kick throw.

I'm rambling, as usual. GLC, you're a big guy. Flames don't bother you. You're perfectly capable of giving a calm and thought-out reply or a vicious asshole reply to someone who flames you in ignorance. Don't let that be a factor in your FAQ.
Always keep an eye on the prize, which is educating a newbie so that he can walk into the arcade tomorrow and start kicking a little ass. If he doesn't start kicking ass vs. other newbies-with-moveslists, he loses confidence. If he has to dig deep to find the information he needs to figure out why some guy's Kage keeps killing him with b+P+G, then he will walk away from the game.


<font color=blue size=11 face="Times New Roman">
CreeD </font>(possible sig)

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

Apparently, you have no fuckin' idea about my reasons for not writing character-oriented guides.

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

I'm not completely excluding the possibility of typing such info respective characters' sections. There are a few factors to that though:
- There are more important things than that right now... appendices found their way to VF3tb guide after there was absolutely nothing else to write
- Writing such sections is very time consuming... I don't like to write partial info, I always want it to be as complete as it can be. One character section consisting of newbie-2-intermediate info would be about 20 KB (that's a rough estimate). It's a lot of typing!

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

Er, wrong. Jesus, your logic, not to mention your English, is totally fucked up.

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

I'm not going to let that thread turn into flame war... no reply to your post then.

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

Man, you're being a shit. You accused GLC of getting personal but you were there first:
"this is truly funny!
you are saying you don't write character guides because one or two people will criticize it and you're scared of a few 'flames'."
And now you have the nerve to get on his -English?-
His english is frigging flawless! How's your Polish? Do you speak 4 or 5 other languages? Jackass.



<font color=blue size=11 face="Times New Roman">
CreeD </font>(possible sig)

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

I noticed that Aoi's attacks that can be G-cancelled also lead to the stance.
Can Aoi G-cancel into her Yin Yang stance?
For example: f, f+P(G-cancel)->P+K+G
Or would the attack end in either a G-cancel or YY stance?


-<font color=white>Ghost</font color=white><font color=red>DOG</font color=red>

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

Having authored some stuff before, and receiving "suggestions" on what else I could write, I must sympathize with GLC's situation. I mean, in a perfect world, all the information that anyone would ever like or need will be available, but we don't live in a perfect world. People have limited time, resources and interest and hence write only what they wish. If GLC does not wish to write a newbie guide, people should not be giving him a hard time for not writing one.

Hey, if it matters all that much, do it yourself right?

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

Gee, sorry to see my comments stir up so much trouble.

All I was suggesting is that GLC should maybe consider including a more thorough coverage of basic operations, to help newbies and all. I didn't mean that he should be burdened with having to include strategies or anything like that, just a basic overview of how the game is played that covers the predictive aspect of VF would suffice. That type of thing could be summed up in a short paragraph.

I made those earlier suggestions with Tekken players in mind, BTW, as most are aware of Tekken's derivation from VF and how they still retain similarities and they're likely going to be the ones most likely to give VF4 a chance. They're going to be applying Tekken knowledge to VF on instinct and fail in most respects.

VFScrub

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

Hmmm, good question... I must say I've no idea I'll check the japanese pages for such info, it's interesting enough.

 

Re: VF4 General FAQ *sticky*

I've just found out she can G-cancel into stance, eg. inputting P,P,P,d+K,G,P+K+G would result in three punches, G-cancelled sweep into yin-yang. Pretty cool