VF4 in my House NOW HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

laff - you know the dude can't be a pirate. Look at him! He's got some hangup with porn that's made him say "go home and watch your porn, you perverts" three times in two posts... definitely worth talking over during his next session at the shrink's. If porn's a no-no, baby jesus or allah or somebody's gonna cry over a pirated copy of VF4.

Glad to hear some more solid info about the frame rate, Hatim. Hope you can work it out before the bobbies come for your buddy.

 

Today's my last day with it, then I'm off to play the real thing. And I mean the REAL thing!

 

is lau an jacky still rago in ps2 version? an is there miss hits like in the arcade version?

 

Are you using pad to do shoulder ram, jab, shoulder ram, double palm? I don't see any speed change. How far are you in to kumite?

 

Yo! Hatim!

You gonna bring VF4 PS2 down to Casino at Tournament Night? We're planning to have Capcom vs SNK 2 on the Dreamcast down at the arcade to kick start the console tournaments.

 

Anyway shoulder ram, jab, shoulder ram, double palm, is as hard as ever because it really is a little bit faster. By the way I don't think posting an mpeg of it will help because all the mpeg will do is change the framerate too, as all the daioh movies look faster than the arcade anyway.

For people who think it's faster...all I ask you to do is think. I haven't seen or played the PS2 version. But how is it possible to make the game faster without changing any frame data!?!?

 

But how is it possible to make the game faster without changing any frame data!?!?

Well a 9-frame punch can still take nine frames if the game's running at 70 or 80 FPS... but I'm just being picky. I doubt it runs faster, but until I play, I guess it's concievable.

It would seem illogical to make the game run faster. Running fast is a function also of how much processor power is available. They probably had to drop resolution and texture quality and all that crap just to get the game to run at a -normal- rate. Sega wouldn't overcorrect and make the game run faster if they could squeeze more performance out of the PS2 in other areas.

 

I'm just wondering... maybe it's because Hatim is running VF4 NTSC/J on a PAL PS2, so the frequencies don't match up, and the end result is his version of VF4 is running faster than it would be on an NTSC PS2...? Because 4 of us were playing PS2 VF4 last night at my place, and nobody commented about the speed being faster or anything.

 

on the point that the other VF conversions run at a different pace than the arcade, accept the fact that YOU ARE WRONG, jeff. you're the only person who still clings onto this. get the fuck over it, freak. and don't fucking insult the intelligence of people who can see it by blaming it on "our eyes", the difference is there and it's as clear as day.

different machines think differently and run at different speeds. your frames idea is retarded - think of it this way: if you have a hand cranked film projector, and spin the crank faster, is there some sort of magical process where frames are removed from the film? or more frames added when you spin the crank slower? the total number of frames in the reel does not change, only the speed in which they are displayed.

i also have yet to see the ps2 version - maybe the crank spins on the ps2 similarly to the N2. maybe it doesn't.

 

Ahh, typical Rich fare: insults, profanity, and the ever useful "everyone thinks it but you, FREAK!!!"

For those of you who have a brain, consider: if the frame stats don't change, for the game to be "faster" the FPS would have to higher, as Creed pointed out and perhaps as Rich was trying to say in his lame analogy. I agree with Creed that's not very likely, and I'm pretty sure VF3tb at least is 60 FPS (dunno about VF4, though I'm sure it'll be the same). In fact, I didn't even bring it up as I thought it's assumed.

But believe it or not, there is a simple way to test this. Go to the mode where the frame stats are running while you play the game (Training mode for the DC version). Press and hold G for, oh, say, 10 seconds. If the game is running at 60 FPS, the number of frames displayed at the end of the 10 seconds should be 600. Try this on the Dreamcast and in the arcade, and that should settle the debate of whether VF3tb is really "faster" than arcade, for Rich's sake. If the DC version is faster, the DC should have more frames given the 10 seconds than arcade (unless the frame stats in VF3tb DC themselves were changed).

Surprise surprise, when you run the test for the DC, you get 600 frames. I'm pretty damn sure if you run the same test on arcade, you will also get 600 frames.

Shrug.


Prince_Hatim, isn't the recovery time of the shoulder ram longer? That would explain why the shoulder ram -> P -> shoulder ram -> double palm combo is harder.

 

Not to take potshots or anything, but how can you be sure you held down guard for exactly 10 seconds? Stopwatch? Did you get 600 on the nose?

As a side note, does anyone know enough about poly game design to know if FPS is fixed by the programmers or just ends up being whatever it is based on the speed of processor, number of polys, etc? I.e. do the game designers specify that a punch should take 1/6th of a second or 10 frames specifically?

 

> "everyone thinks it but you, FREAK!!!"

well, look. this fucking thing has been going on since 1999, and in the numerous flames that have occurred over that time, you are the _only_ one who, for whatever reason, is unable (or unwilling) to see that the DC version is faster. i dunno why, maybe you really can't see it, maybe too much jizz has been sprayed in your eyes over the years, or maybe you just cannot admit that YOU ARE WRONG.

i don't know how to explain it, i wish i knew and could explain the technical reasons behind it. even if your super scientific, technical and empirical experiment (larf) is right on the money (which is total fucking bullshit - good luck timing it _that_ precisely, and even if you're off by a fraction of a second in timing, that's a whole bunch of frames, which will add up), it still doesn't necessarily prove much.

it's really not necessary to make up bullshit tests anyway; for most people, just seeing and playing the two different versions is conclusive enough.

 

Vf2, 3 and 4 are all based on a 60 frame per second timescale.
These frames are synced to the output of the monitor that they are displayed on. For example, VF2,3,4 are all displayed on monitors that run at 60hz, with a new frame displayed per Hz.
Because of this the game would remain the same across any format that assumes this format. That means that Vf3 on DC would be identical to VF3 arcade unless the programmers changed the animations etc. All characters have animations that relate to each other, and through this the pace of the game is set (the speed).
In short, I dont think that the conversions of Vf3 or VF4 are any slower or faster than the arcade.

 

Mr Bungle, is it possible that you might post a picture of your face up on the board, so I can imagine myself poking you in the eyes!

Oh the satisfaction. I thought it was just me, but you do it to everyone. Have you got any friends?

Anyway, I just know that you'll come back with some more bullshit, it makes me laugh though. AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH.

 

are you just talking out of your ass again, or have you actually played both versions over a period of time and compared them?

answer that fucking question, jackass.

 

I'll assume you're talking to me because everyone else calls me jackass /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif
I actually own bothe versions of the game, but aside from that, what Im saying is common sense. Read it again, slowly

 

[various things] per second

FPS is generally fixed by the programmers. There's actually two factors involved -- the number of times you update the simulation per second, and the number of times you update the display per second. These numbers are not necessarily the same.

Display frames per second (which is usually what is meant by "FPS") is usually (but not necessarily) locked to some multiple of the display device (e.g., the TV). So you might be simulating at 100 frames per second, but only displaying at 60 FPS.

I do not know how VF works, but I would speculate that the designers specify the "length" of a move in seconds, or some convenient unit of time. I say this because it's unlikely the animators would have been told to produce a "punch that takes exactly 1/6th of a second". They would have been told to produce a "very quick" punch.

The designer (or somebody) will tweak the rate at which the game engine plays the animation. This could be done in a config file. It is trivial to give the game engine a target duration (e.g., 1/6th of a second) and have it hit that.

For VF I imagine there's some sort of table of moves that specifies the time taken by the various phases of each move. I would guess that this is expressed in time, not numbers of frames.

"Frame stats" occur after the fact. The time taken by an animation is quantized to the (display) frame rate due to the fact that the game displays x frames per second. That's the finest resolution in which an animation's length can be measured by someone who is playing the game.

Since this thread is all about time differences between arcade and home versions, I'll throw what I think are the most likely candidates for "feel differences".

In any 3D game there is a rendering pipeline -- a series of stages through which geometry and texture data pass through in the process of being converted to a 2D matrix of pixels.

It should be noted that the display is always *at least* one frame behind the simulation. One frame is a somewhat idealistic best-case. It's not uncommon for games to be two, three or even four frames behind. If the display is four frames behind the sim this means that four simulation loops will occur before the result of user input is seen onscreen.

Since the likelihood of this lag being longer increases as less powerful hardware tries to cope with a similar load to more powerful hardware (e.g., VF3 on DC vs. Naomi), it is possible that a *slight* feeling of sluggishness is thereby introduced.

Another possible issue is that one common way to increase display frame rate is to reduce the frequency of the simulation. This can subtly affect the output of some systems (especially collision detection). In extreme cases if you simulate at too low a frequency, things will start to pass through each other, etc.

Anyway, hope this is food for thought.

grib.

 

mm hmm. right. sure you do.

 

mm hmm. right. sure you do.

What? You don't think it's possible for someone to actually buy an arcade machine for home use do you?
Well, it's a new concept, buying stuff, but perhaps it actually works /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

Get a grip. Vf3 DC is a great conversion that's almost identical to the arcade, and of what faults it does have, speed isn't one of them.
Heck, it's a hell of a better conversion than Vf4

 

Guy's Hatim is not pirate. We have lots of friends at Sega, If I was in the UK I'm sure I could have got access to VF4 before 31st Jan, as FexiaQ did with his visit to play the PS2.

Anyways it's now, as is the Blue book (has Sarah on the cover and the tag line 'advanced phase') as well as the new version of the smaller book which has Akiras face on the cover.

Peace