VF4 Kage's elbow

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Myke, Oct 6, 2001.

  1. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
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    Doesn't suck.

    Kage's elbow can be used to enter the Falling Leaf stance (FL) by holding P. In this stance, you will auto reverse and high P attack. The animation has Kage duck between the opponents legs and kick the back of their knee in. It does little damage, but put's Kage in a favourable position (behind them). However, due to the recovery times I don't think there are any guaranteed followups. I will report back if I come across any after more testing.

    Anyway, the neat thing about Kage's elbow is that it isn't Punch counterable. In fact, if you've entered the FL stance after having your elbow blocked, any retaliatory high Ps from the opponent will be reversed.
     
  2. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

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    Re: more Kage stuff

    TFT Combos

    If you played Kage in VF3, then there's some adjusting to do before you'll be landing that Knee (D, f+K) after the TFT (b+P+G) consistently. However, in a short time I think most will find it easier to perform given that the crouch dash input is more relaxed.

    I've yet to find a TFT combo where the running slide (run, K) will connect, and I'm beginning to think they're not possible at all. TFT, Knee against a short wall can RO the opponent with a nice flop over animation. TFT against a high wall produces a different bounce than VF3's, and they're also pushed away from the wall a bit more as well. I tried the TFT (wall), DP combos from VF3 but they don't seem to work. For example, landing a Punch after the DP was hard, almost impossible. This may have something to do with the float effect (or lack of) the DP has, maybe the recovery time has increased too. I'll try other TFT (wall) followups next time.

    BTW, TFT combo from the TB intro: TFT, Knee, P, b+K+G, DP is too easy now thanks to the new system, although I think the opponent can TR after the b+K+G.


    Jumonji Stance (JS)

    This was the most enjoyable aspect of Kage's new game for me. First thing you need to know is how to get into the JS:

    - f+P: hold P
    - b+P: hold P
    - PPb+P: hold the last P
    - db+P: hold P
    - P+K: new guard break move, enters JS automatically
    - f,f+P+K: enters JS automatically
    - b+P+K+G: backflip, hold P+K+G to enter JS
    - d+P+K+G: enter JS

    Once you're in the JS, you need to know what movement options are available to you. You can walk forward and backward with F or B. You cannot dash forward or backward though, but you can run forward with f,F. However, there are no running attacks available during JS (that I know of) and so the JS, run is looking kinda pointless for now. Tapping up or down will result in an evasive roll ("revolution evade") in that direction. You cannot crouch during JS.

    Pressing Guard will cancel the stance, so you can still block your opponent's attacks if you need to. The G button isn't your only defensive option though. One of the nice things about the stance are the various reversals available to you. Standing neutral in the JS will auto-reverse any high/mid Punches. As I mentioned before, Kage's blocked elbow into JS will reverse any counter Punch. Your opponent will get clued into this, and may instead decide to go for a knee counter. No problem, Kage has a mid-kick reversal in the JS by pressing P+K+G. Note that the animation for a whiffed mid-k reversal is rather slow.

    During the JS he has a variety of attacking options at every hit level. Most attacks will keep you in the stance. The few that don't, from memory, are the PKK and the P+G catch throw. The revolution evade (JS, u or d) also leaves the stance, although it isn't an attack.

    The Sabaki, JS, P+K, is a two-in-one parry-attack. Something like the Guard-Attacks in FV, although much less flashier and slower. So far I've only seen it work against high/mid Punches but it may work against Kicks at the same level too. So what are the differences between the Sabaki and the punch reverse, since they theorectically work against the same attacks? Well the Sabaki will attack regardless of whether the opponent attacked or not, does a bit more damage and leaves you in the stance whereas the punch reversal, and like traditional reversals requires an attack from the opponent, does little damage, reverses the ring, and exits the stance. So it's good to see one not being made redundant by the other.

    The largest weakness to the JS I see right now are low attacks and throws. The JS, K+G performs a hop while kicking on the spot, so there's potential for it to skip over low attacks but I've yet to test this. Your only defence against throws while in JS is not to stand there idling. I don't think any of his JS attacks are throw counterable either (untested: JS, d+K might be prone to low throws). So my advice for now is to keep the action flowing when you're in JS.

    Putting it all together is where the fun really begins IMO, but I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader :)
     
  3. Trigger

    Trigger Active Member

    Re: more Kage stuff

    with regard to Kage's running slide,since the E botton is not around anymore, does that make it more difficult to do a slide in short-distance run? for me E botton helps a lot with running attacks.

    Trigger/versus/images/icons/wink.gif
     
  4. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

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    Myke623
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    Re: more Kage stuff

    Running still feels the same, and so a quick running slide really depends on how accurate you are with the input. Personally, I've always run with f,F so I can do a quick running slide with relative ease.
     
  5. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Re: more Kage stuff

    Thanks for the detailed post re: Kage's JS. =)

    I use the JS on occasion, but I really should work on it more to figure out how to incorporate it into my flowcharts...


    [​IMG]
     
  6. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: more Kage stuff

    Friggin A Myke that was an awesome post.
     
  7. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    Re: more Kage stuff

    i whipped this up -

    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://home.earthlink.net/~foops/vf4_kage_tft_combos.txt>http://home.earthlink.net/~foops/vf4_kage_tft_combos.txt</A>

    go nuts.

    --
    "A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"
     
  8. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Re: more Kage stuff

    NICE!!!!!!

    -Chanchai
     
  9. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: more Kage stuff

    Hey Rich, are those TFT combos non-QR/TR-escapable?
     
  10. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    Re: more Kage stuff

    I just updated it with space for damage and comments to be added.

    On the Japanese pages, the vast, vast majority of the combos did not have any indication that they were QR/TR able.

    I'll update it again in a bit with which combos were noted as such.

    --
    "A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"
     
  11. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    Re: more Kage stuff

    TFT, knee, d+P+K, b+PK, P, d+P+K,K

    i think may be a typo or something. looks fishy. i went out of my way only put up rev B stuff and stuff that didn't look wrong. i kept that in, just in case, though...

    --
    "A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"
     
  12. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
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    Myke623
    Re: more Kage stuff

    Thanks for the TFT list, Rich. I'll try out as many of them as I can and let you know how they fare in ver.B.
     
  13. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
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    Myke623
    Kage combos

    TFT, knee, d+P+K, b+PK, P, d+P+K,K

    Yep, doesn't work. Even though it looks insane, I gave it the benefit of the doubt anyway and tried it tonight and there's no way. If you take out the knee though, you can get it connect, on lightweights only. Pretty tough to do even then.

    So that becomes:

    TFT - d+P+K - b+PK - P - d+P+KK

    The d+P+K has a really nice hit dynamic in that hit detection occurs during the complete upward stroke. So the key to getting a high float in the TFT is to ensure the d+P+K hits as high as possible. A short dash in is required.

    Here's a few more TFT combos for your list:

    TFT - Knee - d+P+K - db+P(K-Gcancel) - ub+K+G

    TFT - df+P - b+PK - P - d+P+KK

    TFT - df+P - b+P - b+P - F+P - d+P+KK

    And some other combos:

    df+P - P - P - ub+K+G

    df+P - P - P - d+P+KK

    df+P - P - b,f+KK - DP

    uf+K+G - d+P - d+P+KK

    (back turned) P+KK - Knee
    note: MC required for P+K. Extended crouch dash for Knee.


    All the above combos are courtesy of Arcadia magazine, November 2001 issue.
     
  14. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    Re: Kage combos

    Myke,

    you have the new magazine which is on ver B right? err... you are not too busy... can you post some stuff on Lion? I am pretty interested in anything that is useful in actual combat, ie damaging confirmed floats, safe fast moves, etc.
     
  15. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    Re: Kage combos

    Much thanks for the input.

    re TFT d+P+K: do you have to buffer the dash in, or is it similar to TFT, b+K+G combos in VF3, where you had to wait for them to sail down? Do they do the same over-end flop in mid air like with the new TFT-knee?

    The d+P+K seems to be usurping the knee as the TFT combo starter of choice - or is it? What's your impression of it?

    As for some of the df+P combos, did you test them yourself? Some Japanese pages had them, but they were removed, not sure if it had something to do with Rev A.

    --
    "A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"
     
  16. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    Re: Kage combos

    Updated the TFT list, with more combos and notation for weight and TR stuff.

    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://home.earthlink.net/~foops/vf4_kage_tft_combos.txt>http://home.earthlink.net/~foops/vf4_kage_tft_combos.txt</A>

    --
    "A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"
     
  17. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Re: Kage combos

    re TFT d+P+K: do you have to buffer the dash in, or is it similar to TFT, b+K+G combos in VF3, where you had to wait for them to sail down? Do they do the same over-end flop in mid air like with the new TFT-knee?

    You must buffer a dash in. The d+P+K doens't move you forward at all, and if you were to do it in place after the TFT you'd completely miss, no matter how you timed it. I don't remember their exact position after the hit, but I think that the opponent retains the same float position after the TFT no matter what hits -- face down, feet towards. I'll confirm next time I play.

    The d+P+K seems to be usurping the knee as the TFT combo starter of choice - or is it? What's your impression of it?

    Well I say it's about time Kage had an alternative, and decent, TFT combo starter. For damage though (and satisfying sound effect!), nothing beats the Knee, IMHO.

    As for some of the df+P combos, did you test them yourself? Some Japanese pages had them, but they were removed, not sure if it had something to do with Rev A

    Nope, haven't tested them yet. I found out about these combos at my friend's place after having left the arcade. As usual, expect a followup on these, though I suspect they're possible since the magazine was for ver.b.

    BTW, I listed one of the combos with a b,f+KK (which doesn't exist). It should have been f,b+KK. I'm not editing the post because I'll lose my +'s (yes, it pisses me off too!)

    Stay tuned for more.
     
  18. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    JS side note

    During the Jumonji Stance (JS), pressing P+K performs Kage's sabaki.

    If P+K is held down, he'll recover back in the normal stance (i.e. exits JS). This is useful for when the sabaki connects so you'll have more options available for followup.
     
  19. Prince_Hatim

    Prince_Hatim Well-Known Member

    Re: more Kage stuff

    That was a great post Myke, respect is given when it's due.

    I gave Kage a go in the weekend but didn't know about the stance being canned into moves. I have a feeling Kage could be a monster.

    Thanks again.

    <font color=red>The bigger I am....The harder they fall.</font color=red>

    [​IMG]
     
  20. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: more Kage stuff

    I have to admit, Kage is starting to sound a helluva lot more interesting than I initially suspected...
     

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