VF4 Lion - notes on Damage

Seems like it's a bit more difficult to do damage with Lion in VF4 versus 3. Maybe I'm still tied into the VF3 mentality, but it seems damage wise his throws are still a winner, esp. hcb+pg and d_f+pg.

Unfortunately now it seems impossible to do significant amounts of damage off of his attacks. Before bb+k, p+k, bb+k, u+p was solid damage, as were combos off of his f+k, but now both moves have been seriously weakened. bb+k is now reversable high, and seems to come out slower.

b,f+kg seems to be the replacement for bb+k when comboing, especially with new crumple animations (such as after b,d/f+p) but once people figure out how to properly quickroll after it, I don't think you'll really be able to do like a d+k or a high pounce afterwards.

In other news, Lion's okizeme pressure game is as powerful as it ever has been. Still you can apply lots of pressure and knock them back on the ground three or four times, but just seems unless you can toss in a throw or two in the round it's just hard to do enough damage (esp against the power players, Lau, Wolf, Jerky) to really win matches...

-Jason

 

Just to clarify, is b,f+K+G the move I see in the chibita clips where it looks like lion does a small pounce (like the old u/f+K in VF3) and then a real pounce?
That's techable? All those people were just lacking the timing to get out of it?
I thought it looked pretty strong.

Chibita seems to use a ton of the b,d/f+P to crumple. The throws still seem powerful. Rich reported that FC throw, f,f+K, f,f+K worked, is that still true?
Mating Ritual and high pounce in the clips works well. d/f+P+G, d/f+P,P, high pounce as well.

... is the old VF2 combo of death sidekick stagger, d/f+P, low punch, high pounce still doable? Or is the stagger too easy to get out of?


/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>~~~ Don't make me rape you with a sharp stick ~~~/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>

 

FC throw ~ f,f+KK ~ f,f+KK
Second f,f+KK can be TR'ed.

df+P+G ~ df+PP ~ pounce
is guaranteed (or very close to guaranteed)

FC throw or b,df+P ~ b,f+K+G ~ d+K
b,f+K+G is guaranteed (Lion jumps and turns around and strikes downwards with his foot), d+K can be TR'ed. Maybe QR is a better option (I really should try this out), because the d+K can hit mid while TR'ing...

Side kick (stagger) ~ df+P
I don't know if this is a combo any more, I think you can struggle out of it...

 

I agree totally. Lion against a player who is Teching all the tme is a very tough battle. How ever if your opponent is asleep you can get combos like:

b,df+P - b,f+K+Gd+K - u+P (big big damage)
FC,f+P+G - b,f+K+G - u+P (also big damage)

A quick question about Lion/everyone. How does Chibita jump away from his opponent when he has his back turned to them? I've tried all sorts of things and I always get an attack coming out.

So, what combos do we have for people that Tech Roll a lot?


kbcat

 

How does Chibita jump away from his opponent when he has his back turned to them?

By doing a u/f+P(hold p) for pounce, he'll just jump away in case the opponent TR. For ppl who TR a lot, I guess you just got to do okizeme.
f+k+g is very effective against TR, try it sometimes.

 

re: what combos vs. tech rollers

I'm probably out of my league talking about VF4 (since I haven't touched it), but on one of the new korea videos there's a beautiful example of anti-rolling. Wolf does a knee, PG, PG, then dashes forward and enters a low throw as soon as his opponent hits the floor. The opponent had of course reflexively QR'd and gotten snagged. Had wolf ended the combo with the standard short shoulder or dropkick, he would have gotten a bit of guaranteed damage, but recovered slowly and lost some initiative when his opponent got back up. Certainly he would lose any chance of smacking the enemy with a midlevel or low throw. So the moral seems to be to end your combo with a fairly quick-recovering attack, something that leaves you close to the their body. Dunno what Lion could use here... b+P,P?
D/F+P,P? (followed with an elbow-stagger poke vs. the QR?)


/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>~~~ Don't make me rape you with a sharp stick ~~~/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>

 

Are you sure u/f+P will hop you away? Because I try it but the pounce always seems to come out.

But as for those big combos (from crouch b,f+kg, d+k, high pounce) yah I discovered them about a month and a half ago. Unfortunately everyone's so used to them (except for Akira! hehe, sorry man, I feel so cheesy doing that) that they just tech roll out of the way.

Having said that, I think Lion's at a strong advantage against techrollers. Just so many options - sweep, or elbow, or throw, that I think I'm going to stop doing d/f+p in situations where it's not guaranteed...

-Jason

 

Are you sure u/f+P will hop you away? Because I try it but the pounce always seems to come out.

Could it be a difference between the test version you're playing on Jason and ver B?

--
"VF is the resonance AND the wonder." GodEater

 

(shrug)

It might be. But it just seems odd that holding u/f+p won't give you a pounce if your opponent is in the "down" position..

-Jason

 

not really,

Lion's option vs tech rollers is not as strong as others. I mean other than throw, the rest of it is pretty weak in terms of damage.

 

Trust me, Jason, u/f+P (hold) works. As said in the above post, u/f+P comes out as jump away if the opponents TRs, and a pounce if he/she does not TR. Another good invention by Chibita, I might add.

But Iven been abusing this a bit too much and missing quite a few Okizeme chances when the opponent TRs. My homework for now is to watch after b,f+K+G connects and decide either pounce or Okizeme.

 

See Jason, I did post about this in another thread a couple of days back about the possibility of option select between hop and pounce for Lion =P

 

Sounds like Jason needs to eat his...



--
"I know I say the word 'fuck' a lot, and I'd apologize, but; I don't give a shit." - Lewis Black

 

LOL! Did you Photoshop that?

 

ROFLOL

"Victory can be anticipated, but not assured" Sun-Tzu

 

Where can I get mine? =) Made in the USA? Then why don't we have VF4 yet???
Thanks for making my night. :-D~

--
"VF is the resonance AND the wonder." GodEater

 

Yeh...conceived and executed by me, cleaned up by CreeD. Glad y'all liked it

--
"I know I say the word 'fuck' a lot, and I'd apologize, but; I don't give a shit." - Lewis Black

 

Finally some real Lion discussion. Man I really want to play this.
Is Chibita the highest ranking player at the moment in Japan or what? He has been featured a couple of times on websites so far..

 

went AMK and played against CPU.

Tried b,f+P+K, throw vs CPU. I think I did not see my throw get interrupted even once if the punch connects. Is a high throw guaranteed after b,f+P+K???

The difference between b,f+P+K (is there a shorter name for this??) and the normal P, is that is seems to come out SLOWER but have better range as Lion steps slightly forward. Impt if you want to throw after that. Can't wait to try it in vs combat.

 

Chibita has been near or at the top of the VFnet rankings since the beginning AFAIK. There are movies of his playing if you want to see for yourself. Search the forum for "Chibita"... some members have witnessed him playing first hand in Japan.

Can anyone post a current VFnet ranking list?

--
"VF is the resonance AND the wonder." GodEater