vf4 option select

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Mr. Bungle, Dec 16, 2001.

  1. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    I'm updating the VF3 option select guide for VF4. It would be great if someone could sit down and take the time to test the following questions:

    1) Are we absolutely certain that the HCB/HCF and P+G mash technique works? Is there no limit, aside from time, to how many throw escapes can be entered?

    2) If the mash technique does work, can a reversal/attack/dodge be put in front of it? And would it be possible to end it with G-TE? This might be hard to test...

    3) Can side throw DTE be done against Jeff and Wolf (P+G,f|b+P+G)? Is it even possible to escape their alternative side throws? And again, can it be prefaced with and ended with all the other usual option select stuff (not they would even avoid anything)?

  2. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    So...is no one interested in contributing to worthwhile documents exploring the VF4 system, or are we more interested in useless garbage such as character attribute guides?

    And no, I can't test it myself, I'm not anywhere near a VF4 machine now and don't know when I'll be around one again.
  3. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    I could make an ass comment like "post it on Virtua Project" .....
  4. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    I can really only speak for myself, but if you want people to help, maybe you want to at least pretend to be polite and sincere.
  5. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    I just did :)

    ...where's my cat?
  6. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    Piss off, Jeff. Go write another shitbag, error-filled WORLD EXCLUSIVE VFDC-ONLY!!! 40kb document and split it up into five separate poorly written html sections on VFDC.
  7. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    1) I've not tested it, and I haven't tried it. I'm still only entering 2 escapes ala VF3 method, and usually the first one is still n+P+G. Old habits die hard. BTW, I'm still using b,f+P+G (at least w/ Sarah) to reverse f+P+G throws. If for some reason my opponent or I mess up the timing, I have the chance of getting Sarah's leg take down throw. IMO, no one can enter in more than 3 command throw reversals in the 10 frame window anyway... unless AM2 upped the throw reversal window to 15 or 20 frames... ick. Hopefully the next mook will have the details that you're searching for.

    2) The way that I understand how it works: yes and yes. If you can mash out 2 or 3 reversal commands during the whiff animation of the reversal/attack or during the dodge then remain holding G after the last reversal command, your character should just do the whiff/dodge animation then assume a blocking stance. Your character should not make a whiff throw animation. I believe Myke reported that if done properly, you could enter in a double throw escape during a dodge animation and the character would not do a missed throw animation. Myke, could you confirm/deny/clarify?

    3) I do not know. I've escaped side throws (I believe just the n+P+G ones) by mashing out my normal double throw escape i.e. purely by accident. I haven't seen the alternate side throws enough to know if they're escapable or not.
  8. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    vf4 option select

    Side throws are definetly escapable. No clue about alternates.
  9. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    he's saying can you enter u+P+G and then quickly d+P+G when you see a sidethrow coming and escape either kind of sidethrow every single time?
  10. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    Now that you can escape two directional throws. Does that mean you can escape both variants of Jeffrey's headbutt headbutt knee throw by inputting b+p+g and f+p+g?
  11. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    that's one I'm sure doesn't work... multis are an exception. I know because I secretly tried to escape aoi's multi-throw at the second part by entering both u+P+G and d+P+G, and it never worked, so I never mentioned it. The game always takes your first input, no matter what. And I think it's the first inputs you enter when you start getting headbutted, almost regardless of timing. Like if you suspect jeff will do the knee ender at some point, you can enter two quick b+P+G's during the first headbutt and then sit back and watch.
  12. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    Damn I was hoping that would work. I get hit by that alot it would of been useful. Well thanks for dashing my dreams that timing thing should help though.
  13. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    Maybe I can test it with gribbly/howard this week. It seems tricky to test, as someone would have to have really nice imput to reliably do f+P+G, d/f+P+G, d+P+G, d/b+P+G, b+P+G quickly and accurately. Maybe I can tell grib to mix up f, d/f, and b,d+P+G with Pai and see if I can get out using QC from f to d tapping P+G. That would confirm at least 3 is possible...

  14. gribbly

    gribbly Well-Known Member

    I'm happy to try. I was playing with the "mash throw escape" technique the other day against the CPU. I *did* get a lot of throw escapes....

  15. ghostdog

    ghostdog Well-Known Member

    It seems tricky to test, as someone would have to have really nice imput to reliably do f+P+G, d/f+P+G, d+P+G, d/b+P+G, b+P+G quickly and accurately.

    It is a little tricky. I tried it today against the CPU, and I escaped more throws than usual. And I tried the same approach with reversals (I used Aoi). I was not as successful. I tried it after f+P+K or D, df+P was blocked (I'm sorry, I don't know the names for the moves), And I had the most success escaping Kage and Jacky, probably because I entered HCF and mashed P+G. Since b+P+G was entered first, I was able to escape the TFT and Trip Hammer(?) throw.

    I'll try it again tomorrow. I might have better results with a human being, like Spotlite suggests.
  16. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    1) Totally agree!!

    2) Yes, it's true, you won't get a whiff throw animation.
  17. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Re: vf4 option select vs. multi-throws

    CREED! You've been holding out on us! Shame.... ;)
    Oh well, Hyun can continue to abuse Jeff's multi-head butt throw on us then...
    I almost always stick with f+P+G vs. Jeff and d+P+G vs. Aoi as those stop their most damaging options. I forget what Wolf can do...
  18. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Yep. IMHO it's near impossible to fully enter a half circle forward/backward motion during the sixth of a second time frame available. (Especially on the longer north american style sticks. Maybe its different on the Japan style sticks.) I also don't think many people could tap the buttons 5 times in a sixth of a second either.

    Going for 3 escape attempts is something that's acheivalble though. Spotlite, or anyone else who has time to test it (I doubt I'll have time to play VF4 again until after Christmas), have your opponent do a d+P+G throw like Pai/Akira's stumbling trip and try to reverse it by entering in <f+P+G, df+P+G, d+P+G> or <b+P+G, db+P+G, d+P+G>. Something with easy to control timing would be Akira's double palm-- have Pai block Akira's double palm and try to counter it with her stumbling trip while the Akira enters in the quarter circle reverse command. Like you said, if Akira gets the throw reversal then we know at least 3 command reversals are possible.

    Hmm... just thinking about this, maybe we could start considering and suggesting throw reversal motions that are good vs. specific characters like we did with specific directions in VF3. (See Creed's VF3 throw reversal guide.)

    If we start with the premise that most competent players can get 3 reversals in then we have:
    (Tap P+G with each direction indicated. Rolling the stick is encouraged.)

    n,f,df | n,df,f vs. Wolf to stop everything but the wrist lock swing

    n,f,df | n,df,f vs. muy thai Vanessa stops everything but the surprise exchange
    f,df,d | d,df,f vs. defensive system Vanessa stops everything but the surprise exchange,
    heaven's gate 270 degree throw, and the cannon dive n+P+G

    n,df vs. sober Shun to stop everything but the elbow drop
    b,n,df vs. drunk Shun (10 DP+) stops everything! Sucks for Shun

    f,n,b | b,n,f vs. Sarah stops everything but the fallen angel throw
    f,n,db vs. Sarah stops everything but the triple knee

    f,n,b | b,n,f vs. Pai stops everything but the stumbling trip and cartwheel over
    f,df,d | d,df,f vs. Pai stops everything but the DDT, whirlwind bloom 270 degree throw
    and normal n+P+G throw

    f,n,b | b,n,f vs. Lion stops everything but the surprise exchange and the uf+P+G throw

    n,f,df | n,df,f vs. Lei stops everthing but the leg trip or you could try
    b,n,df vs. Lei which would stop everything but his f,f+P+G throw

    f,df,d | d,df,f vs. Lau stops everthing but the willow wheel drop and the n+P+G throw

    f,n,b | b,n,f vs. Kage stops everything but the df+P+G and the b,d+P+G
    f,df,d | d,df,f vs. Kage stops everything but the TFT and the n+P+G throw

    f,df,d | d,df,f vs. Jeff stops everything but the military press, surprise exchange
    and knee smash n+P+G throw (Why would a Jeff ever use the n+P+G throw?
    Only 35 pts of damage :p)

    b,f,df | b,df,f vs. Jacky will stop everything except the n+P+G one inch blow
    (WTF, give Jacky the 35 pts of damage... I'm glad I did this--
    I hadn't realized that these neutral throws were so weak.
    Can Jacky get a ground kick in after the n+P+G throw?)

    b,f,df | b,df,f | f,b,db | f,db,b vs. Aoi, who has by far the best mix up of throw
    commands (The only one she doesn't have is d+P+G.)

    f,df,d | d,df,f vs. Akira stops everything but the surprise exchange and the
    trip and triple punch n+P+G throw
    df,d,db | db,d,df vs. Akira stops everthing but the grasping mind, close in ram
    and the trip and triple punch n+P+G throw

    If anyone has better reverse motions, please comment...
  19. Robyrt

    Robyrt Well-Known Member

    Well, since you only HAVE ten frames, to do half-circle throw escapes means you need to be able to tap P+G once every two frames, with a two-frame window to start the motions. I'd think a triple TE is a lot more feasible. :)

    For Aoi: df+P+G isn't as much of a threat IMHO (since b+P+G and db+P+G both do basically the same thing, it's easy to switch between them). And besides, what would she do with d+P+G? A stumble throw? ;-)
  20. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Ghost Dog, I don't think this works with attack reversals. See my above post for some better strategies against specific characters.

    What would be worth while to practice, however, is attack reversal into multi-throw escape. Getting into the habit of entering in a QCF and mashing P+G after every attack reversal would be a good thing.

    db+P+K, d+P+G, df+P+G, f+P+G roll the stick

    Brain dead option select--what Bungle was upset about in the first place.

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