VF4 Round Openers FAQ

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by nycat, May 10, 2002.

  1. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    I spent thirty minutes using Search feature... I need help from the accomplished players here. Both in arcade battle and Kumite. What are your favorite round openers? Wolf and Vanessa are my main concerns. We have a Lion Round opener thread here so let us skip Lion. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif Most of the round openers data came from sta ###(^^). I have found myself stuck with Wolf at 1kyu for the past several sessions. I just got the silver sunglasses and then went 12 losses to 2 wins before launching pelican stick across sofa.
     
  2. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    With Jeffry, I alternate between df, df+P+G; df,df+P; CD backwards; stationary guard; df+P; ff+P; f+P+K; f,b+P; and b,f+P.

    With Pai, it's between b+P+K+G; f,f+P+G; CD --> f+P+G or f+P; db+P; b+P; KK; uf+KK; df+K; any reversal or inashi; b+Kd; df+P; f+P; or P(G).

    With Kage, I prefer using P(G); df+P; f+P+KP+K; ff --> b+P+G or df+P+G; b+PK; PK; PPb+P or db+PPb+P; b+P+K+G; b+K; df+K+G; P+K; or f>b+K. I will occasionally sacrifice a round with a new opponent by opening with f,f+P+K+G or f,f+K+G or f>b, b>f++P+K+G to leave the impression I am a total scrub and lower his/her psychological guard.

    With Sarah it's P(G); P+K+G; db+K; b+K+G; ub+K+G; uf+P+G; f,f --> b+P+G; df+PK; P+K; b+K; b,b+P; or b,b+K.

    With Lau I use f+PP; df+K or df+KPP; f,f --> f+P+G; df, df+P+G; P(G); P+K+G; df+PP; f+P+K; b+P+KP; or Pb+PP.

    With Akira: f,f+P; P(G); any reversal; f,f --> df+P+G; df+P+K; d+P (often followed by an m-modified attack of some type); PK; or uf+KK.

    With Jacky, I use everything.
     
  3. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    thx D for your thoughtful response to my question about <font color=white>round openers</font color=white>. The first move is very important in VF4. With Lion a quick knock down move like, say, ( u+P+K) gives Lion several advantages, not the least of which is lifebar advantage. CD-> throw works after you train your opponent to freeze and hold guard. db+K is another knockdown for lion that hits low and again gives Lion several advantages. <font color=yellow>CreeD</font color=yellow> pointed out that <font color=blue>chibita</font color=blue> sometimes enjoys a quick back dash and follows this w/ an immediate (b,b+K)[!] {combo time} Funny, I really, really[begging on knees] need help w/ Wolf and Van and these are two you did not mention. [sad] Hopefully, another member or enthusiast of VF4 will respond w/ openers for them. I will experiment this weekend w/ your shared ideas and report back. Thx agn <font color=orange>Deniz</font color=orange>. Many more cerebral cerebrations. Do you use the PS2 pad or sticks in your VF4 experiments? BTW- sta ### is <font color=red>Shota-san </font color=red>.
     
  4. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    Whoa, Nelly. No offense Deniz, but could you alternate with any *more* moves? You practically listed the players' movelists /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    Nycat, with Wolf I use a few starters: f+P+K, PKG --> Throw, SS, Dodge throw. There are loads of good moves to start with for Wolf. f+K+G would be good, although I don't use it very often at the start of a round.

    You should make note that starting moves, while important, are highly influenced by previous matches and/or rounds against a certain opponent. Yomi alone could allow you to start the round off with something obscure that may not be a common starter but works because you're predicting your opponent's starting sequence.

    Oh...in my limited Vanessa play experience, I always got a kick out of starting the round with a CD backwards into MT stance for a f+P+K knockdown. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    cheers,
     
  5. Robyrt

    Robyrt Well-Known Member

    I go for simple and risky with Sarah: db+K (usually just by accident after too many kumite matches), uf+P+G, dash forwards and f,db+P+G, dash backwards and b+K+G, or PPb+P. I love playing with people's minds as they try to figure out if that PPb+P was an MC or not... if it was, I'm protected by Sarah's awesome jab /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  6. ghostdog

    ghostdog Well-Known Member

    When I use Akira, I start off with an SDE, buffering the forward taps when the announcer finishes announcing "go!". Other times I start off with a backdash or attempt a high punch MC.

    With Aoi I use high punch, b, b+P+K, or backdash, and every now and then I use the f+K+G sabaki.

    If I'm using Shun, I usually start with a chouwan, db|ub+P+K+G, P, or low K->db|ub+P+K+G. Other times I dash back a bit.

    With Vanessa I go for the mid kick->sabaki (df+K-> b, f+K, P) or change stance-> f+P+K.
     
  7. vfighter8323

    vfighter8323 Member

    I usually use Akira as my main character, but I use everyone else as well.

    Akira : I start with a B,F, PGK to knock them down, followed by U+P. it almost alway works for any character. Sometimes i use FFF+P, because they usually do a quick attack that'll cause a crumble, and you fill in what ever you want.

    Aoi - B, DF, P causes crumble and often works in the beggining , follow with D+PGK or combo. OR try DF + P, an MC which floats the opponent, followed by pppk.

    Lei Fei - D, F, P+K , deflects an incoming attack and causes crumble, works well.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Vane vs CPU: Best option is a backdash to the b,b+K+G right away, fully charged. If the opponent doesnt immediatetely rush up to you or execute a long distance travelling string, then you will have them like a rabbit in your headlights. They will most often block, but the guard stun and special AI error means you can follow up with either a crouch throw, which i have yet to see the cpu escape, or a K+G. The K+G will also be blocked, but once its blocked once, you can do its as much as you like, and as long as they keep blocking you can push them out of the ring, in an open stage (yes, its cheap as hell, but you asked for successful openings, not fair ones.) Also, after its blocked you can get in a f+P,K,K, d+K+G, df+K combo.. the df+K has been teched once so far, but i may have delayed it that time, at any rate, it doesnt get avoided much.

    Against Akira, and some high level Wolfs i often begin my Kumite matches by Evading, as they have straight forward, long reaching and damaging moves that will punish a backdash, and they often execute them right at the start of a round. From there, you can either do the P+K+G followup and try to get some space, or throw, or if you are close try to d+P, ws+P until either you get mid hitted, or the ws+P connects as a counterhit, in which case you have some space to plan your next move.

    Against People.

    When going against people a huge part of the game (as you already know, im sure) is anticipating, and predicting what your opponent will do, and of course, reacting to what you see as it happens. So, there arent any sure-fire openers, but here are a few of my favorites.

    db+K or d+K+G, starting with a low crouching kick is a good way to stop someone intent on running up to you at the beginning, especially if they are running at you with a fairly high string. If you dont knock them down, follow with a ws+P or hit low, or go for a throw, its all about what their reaction is.

    b,b+K+G is still a good option, but now for a different reason. The crouch throw and K+G traps will not work against people, but its still a powerhouse when it hits, giving you the advantage when the charged version is blocked, and stomach crumpling when it hits (now you can crouch throw). The important part is that you can cancel the move at two specific times, as you lean back before the kick, or just before the kick would be thrown after you jump forward. Use these cancels to gain distance, to fake out your opponent, to set up a later hit with the move, or to stop short against a person trying to evade or reverse and throw or poke them.

    P or d+P, approach them as you wish before executing the move. The purpose of these as a starter is to counter hit an opponents first or second move to set up either a throw, or another hit to keep the pressure on.

    BackDashing, or Evading. If you know the opponent is gonna come at you with right away, you can try to backdash to force a whiff, or evade to get to their side.. very person specific though.

    Well, thats all i can think of for now, as a really rough idea of some good openers.
     
  9. sayow

    sayow Well-Known Member

    Vanessa Round Openers

    <font color=orange>nycat, try these:

    Defensive Stance
    1) b,f+P+K > d+K > d+K
    2) df+P+K -> df+P+K+G
    3) df+P+K -> d+P+K+G
    4) G,u|d+P -> df+P+K+G
    5) G,u|d+P -> d+P+K+G
    6) b,b+K+G -> df+P+K+G
    7) db+K+G > PPPK > d+K+G
    8) P,throw

    MT
    1) f+P+K -> f+P+K -> d+K -> d+K -> d+K+G
    2) G,u|d+P -> df+P+K+G
    3) G,u|d+P -> d+P+K+G
    4) f,f+P+K,P,P
    5) df+P ->*K -> df+K
    6) df+P,K -> df+K
    6) db+K+G > PPPK > d+K+G
    7) b,b+K+G -> df+P+K+G
    8) P,throw

    Her pounces (df+K or u+P) can be thrown in at the end of any of these but they are not guaranteed. Hopefully, these will give you other ideas to launch into...</font color=orange>
     
  10. Tetra

    Tetra Well-Known Member

    Re: Vanessa Round Openers

    I usually do backdash change stance and f+p+k if i see any whiff attacks from opponent. (heavily influenced from alantan)
    You can almost avoid ANYTHING the guy tries to attack you with. Cos change to MT stance = extra movement backwards.
     
  11. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    <font color=red>Bun Bun Maru</font color=red> offers these tips for Wolf in VF3 video.
    <font color=orange>d/f+P+K</font color=orange> and <font color=orange>f,d+K</font color=orange> - these two moves are perfect round openers.
    Both are fast low hits.
    2) Short Shoulder[<font color=orange>b,f+P+K</font color=orange>] and Knee (<font color=orange>f+K</font color=orange>) - However, when these two get blocked, Wolf loses the initiative and is in a lot of trouble. <font color=orange> P,K(G-cancel) [MC] throw</font color=orange> is just one arrow in Bun Bun's quiver.
    Wolf has many moves that can reverse the course on his faster opponents and give him the initiative back.
    <> <font color=orange>K(G-cancel)</font color=orange> - Since you can't be thrown during the execution stage of a move, Bun Bun advises that an effective tactic option after a blocked <font color=orange>Short Shoulder</font color=orange> or a <font color=orange>Knee</font color=orange> is a <font color=orange>K</font color=orange> and then <font color=white>cancel it</font color=white>and watch your opponent's throw attempt whiffs.
    <> Another <font color=orange>Short Shoulder</font color=orange> - It is fast and when done without a delay, it can beat your opponent's throw attempt.
    <> <font color=orange>d/f+P+K</font color=orange>- This move is also very fast. It will go under high attacks (P included), beating your opponent's attempt to P [MC] you.
    <> <font color=orange>f,d+K</font color=orange>- It has many of the same properties as the d/f+P+K
    1) . <font color=red>Bun Bun</font color=red> observed that many VF3 players in Japan would start with the following Round Openers:
    <> <font color=orange>P(G)</font color=orange> or a <font color=orange>P,K(G-cancel)</font color=orange>, <font color=orange>d/f+P+K</font color=orange> and <font color=orange>f,d+K</font color=orange>.
     
  12. justaNewbie

    justaNewbie Member

    Re: Wolf Round Openers

    Knees are good attacks for Wolf to immediately begin rounds with against every CPU Kumite character except Pai as they just reach opponents and will often yield a MC float if they try an opening attack of their own. Unfortunately, Pai stands just a little out of range when rounds begin and a knee will whiff if she doesn't do anything. No big deal, just use [b~f+P+K] instead. That said, the combo I always go for at the beginning of each round is [f+K, P, b~f+P+K] since it's one of his most reliable combos (but still does good damage) and CPU opponents are slow learners. When it connects, how I continue depends on the ring we're fighting in and which character the opponent is...


    Go for Modified Wall-Throw
    ( in the VF.net ring, the Aquarium ring, and the Harbor ring against all light/medium-weight characters )

    f+K, P, b~f+P+K, d+P+G, df+P+G

    This combo can work on most non-heavy characters (Akira, Wolf, Jeffry), although you may be able to use it on Akira if the initial knee hits high enough for the rest to connect and he doesn't tech-roll after the short shoulder. Hold forward after the knee to get a little extra distance out of the punch that follows; this should get you close enough to the wall that the ground pick-up throw will cause a wall-stagger. Time the [df+P+G] throw right as the wall-stagger animation ends after the ground pick-up throw (this takes some practice). Too early and you won't get the modified wall throw; too late and the opponent can attack you. Even when the throw does grab the opponent, they still have a chance to enter the correct throw escape, but usually won't unless you've caught them with this same combo in a previous round. Opponents will be down to about 20% of their health bar after this entire series connects. If you decide to follow the modified wall throw with a pounce for additional damage, I recommend [b~f+K+G] over the others.


    For Easy, Cheap CPU Ring-Outs
    ( any non-walled ring against all light/medium-weight characters except Shun )

    f+K, P, b~f+P+K, d+P+G, uf+K+G

    This combo will ring out most non-heavy characters (Akira, Wolf, Jeffry), although you may be able to use it on Akira if the initial knee hits high enough for the rest to connect and he doesn't tech-roll after the short shoulder. Time the [uf+K+G] right as Wolf releases the victim from the ground pick-up throw. It usually doesn't hit, but it will push them back far enough that they'll be forced out of the ring or in immediate danger of being forced out (again, holding forward after the knee during the punch squeezes a little extra distance out of the float combo). If they're right at the edge after Wolf lands, a [d+K~K~K] rising attack should be enough to shove them out. Once in a blue moon the opponent will quickly attack and prevent [uf+K+G] from coming out, but those instances are quite rare. Shun is a special case. He spends a lot of time crouching, and is so low to the ground that a [uf+K+G] can result in Wolf sailing right over him and ringing himself out instead. So, against Shun replace [uf+K+G] with [uf+K, d+K~K~K] to go for a ring out that way. Of course, if you try this combo at the beginning of a round in a breakable wall stage and the opponent gets hit by [uf+K+G], you can use it ring out the opponent in subsequent rounds.


    For Marginally More Difficult, Still-Cheap CPU Ring-Outs
    ( any non-walled ring against all light/medium-weight characters )

    {f+K, P, b~f+P+K, d+P+G, P+K (hold P+K)} repeat this over and over after it connects

    Start fully-charging [P+K] right as Wolf releases the victim from the ground pick-up throw. The CPU always stands and blocks it which enables the knee to hit and you to continue this combo indefinitely. Of course, you won't get through it twice before the victim is pushed out of the ring. Against the "heavies" you can input the ground pick-up throw immediately after each knee. (Actually, all CPU opponents are really stupid about blocking moves that will stagger them; it's even possible to repeatedly do non-charged [b~df+P]s to ring out a CPU opponent without actually hurting them at all.)


    Go for Low Throw then Low Side Throw against CPU Akira
    ( any type of ring against Akira only )

    f+K, P, b~f+P+K, dash forward, db+P+K+G, evade low rising attack, d+P+K+G

    Akira is an odd case as he's light enough that you can often hit him with the whole [f+K, P, b~f+P+K] combo, but he'll often quick-recover or tech-roll to evade a ground pick-up throw or pounce afterwards. What you do instead is after the short shoulder connects, dash forward right as Akira hits the ground. If he tech-rolls and you didn't dash too late, you have a good chance of catching him with the [db+P+K+G] low throw. When that connects, just stand there after the low throw. Akira almost always tries the low sliding kick as a rising attack from this position. As soon as he starts moving, evade to avoid the kick then input [d+P+K+G] for the rare low side throw after your evade ends. Take care not to input the low throw command before the evade animation ends, or you'll get Wolf's "during evade catch throw" instead. When all of this goes the way you'd hope, Akira will either be knocked out or very close to it. (BTW, the "evade Akira's low rising attack and get low side throw" trick also works after [df+P+G] and [df~df+P+G].)


    In the Palace Ring against CPU
    ( the extra-small palace ring with the pool of water against all characters )

    {f+K, P~P~P, d+P+G} repeat this over and over as many times as possible

    Obviously, this works better the lighter the opponent is. Input your [d+P+G] ground pick-up throws right after the victim hits the wall following the punch strings. Once again, you want to hold forward after each knee during the punches to ensure you float the opponent far enough that they strike the next wall before landing. Usually the opponent will block a subsequent knee or your ground-pick-up throw attempt will miss, but occasionally the combo sequence will repeatedly connect and result in a knockout.
     
  13. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Re: Wolf Round Openers

    Here's my favorite arcade (vs) round openenrs for the characters I use. Also note, I"m using Japanese terminology. It's 1000x easier to write & read. If you don't know it, just look at your 10-key -- DONE!

    Shun:
    3P-Throw
    46P-Throw
    1+PKG
    4K+G

    Vanessa:
    2K,PP (doesn't always work, but okay sometimes)
    stand still (good against Jacky & Lau)
    44K+G

    Lion:
    I've got some good ones, but will skip it, as everyone says:

    Aoi:
    6P+K,P
    2+K+G,PKG
    P+K,Throw
     
  14. alantan

    alantan Well-Known Member

    Re: Wolf Round Openers

    For Vanessa,

    the 2kpp works if you do backdash,MT change at the beginning very often. To catch the Vanessa, the opponent have to do something very long range or dash forward and quick attack. If you anticipate that, 2kpp is a good idea. Not so good in Ver C though...

    On a side note, is 2kpp a chain on minor counter?? I am looking for a move to punish missed pounce. any ideas? some pounce recover very weird and mid moves/throws will miss.

    I guess one of the best openings is dodge. You see that quite often in the movies.
     
  15. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Re: Wolf Round Openers

    2KPP is great for the 4th or 5th round, if you've been dodging/blocking for the first few. The whole thing will connect if you counter, and it's pretty quick. I use it in Ver. C quite a bit, but it's success rate isn't as high as other characters' openers.
     
  16. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    "<> K(G-cancel) - Since you can't be thrown during the execution stage of a move, Bun Bun advises that an effective tactic option after a blocked Short Shoulder or a Knee is a K and then cancel itand watch your opponent's throw attempt whiffs. "

    A K(G) can be IT as I recall. Throwing people during execution phase is an added subtility in VF4. Only thing is that its a rather shady technique and shouldnt be relied upon : I've ITed Akira's DJK/SJK ( f,f+K ) during its begining execution phase but its not something I'd recommend trying too often as you'll probably get nailed most of the time.

    As for K(G) as a round opener, its excellent vs. back dashing opps. as it moves you forward. Still vs. BD opps is a K(G), Fake shoulder ram ( b,f+P[charge], d ) into a f, d+K, its surprisingly reliable as alot of peeps stop back dashing and go into attack mode as soon as they see you crouching into the charged shoulder ram and your f, d+K will beat out most moves and end up in a MC hit and a guaranteed pounce or pickup. Just a strat...
     
  17. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    Re: VF4 Wolf FAQ- Round Openers

    As for K(G) as a round opener, its excellent vs. back dashing opps. as it moves you forward. Still vs. BD opps is a K(G), Fake shoulder ram ( b,f+P[charge], d ) into a f, d+K, its surprisingly reliable as alot of peeps stop back dashing and go into attack mode as soon as they see you crouching into the charged shoulder ram and your f, d+K will beat out most moves and end up in a MC hit and a guaranteed pounce or pickup. thx Mr. White.

    Round Openers -> Miscellaneous Combos

    <font color=yellow>[f+K, P, b~f+P+K]</font color=yellow> -- This is a <font color=white>tedster</font color=white>
    <font color=red>bread-and-butter combo</font color=red> with Wolf against any medium to lightweight
    opponent (doesn't always work against Akira,Wolf, Jeffry
    unless you get a Major Counter (MC) and NEVER works against
    Dural). If you want to follow up with a pounce [b~f+K+G] is safest for
    Wolf's since it reduces|negates counterattack damage, but [u+P] does the
    most damage. A better option is often to grab them with the [d+P+G] ground
    pick-up throw instead. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif Yet another option is to dash towards them
    right as they hit the ground; if they tech-roll, you may be able to grab
    them with a low throw before they're standing again.

    <font color=yellow>[f+K, hcb+P~P]</font color=yellow> -- Another favorite of the <font color=white>tedster</font color=white>
    and good one against light light medium or medium weight opponents.
    This can also work against Akira, Wolf, and Jeffry if the knee
    floats them high enough[MC?]. You can follow up with a pounce that may or may
    not connect. If you don't even attempt a pounce, the opponent usually
    tech-rolls or quick-recovers right when they hit the ground. If this
    happens, you can input a fully-charged Shoulder Attack and go for a stagger
    (just watch that they didn't roll out of its range).
    ,,,
     
  18. nycat

    nycat Well-Known Member

    thx ghostdog for your many Vanessa insights. wifey has turned into an <font color=blue>evil</font color=blue><font color=orange> ghostdog</font color=orange> <font color=blue> Vanessa borg</font color=blue>
    Here is a totally evil tedster Wolf Round Opener that will RO on most open stages against unsuspecting humans and CPU opponents too. <font color=white>Round Opener</font color=white> for Wolf <font color=orange>[f+K, P, b~f+P+K, d+P+G, uf+K+G]</font color=orange> -- When it all connects, the opponent will either be rung out(RO), or very close to the edge of the ring (in which case <font color=red>tedster</font color=red> recommends <font color=orange>[d+K~K~K]</font color=orange> to finish the job). Against some Wolf may float 'em and ring himself out instead! This can work on all wallless rings.
    Occasionally your [uf+K+G] will be interrupted before it hits.
     
  19. G_Snowman

    G_Snowman Member

    Allow me to add my Jeffrey openers.

    I`d like to disagree with D's openers of Jefffrey. Sounds like the stuff that would punish you. Try a d+K+G into sidestep to avoid high attacks. f+P+K works well and combos into the triple knee. Starting with a throw is dangerous.
     
  20. Mike90210

    Mike90210 Well-Known Member

    Ill have to double check but I dont think the b, f+P+K give a guaranteed pick up. Youd have to use a b+P instead of b,f+P+K.
     

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