vf4 sucks

Re: after akira's shrm

Well as llanfair pointed out, a blocked shrm *is* counterable with a punch. It doesn't matter if akira is entering throw escapes or not.

I've heard from people who tested it that it isn't.

So my point was that when the first punch hits you can get a second (P,P), or you can get P,K (stagger). Then you dash in and throw. Sure it's not technically a combo, but as one of a few things to do after blocking a shrm it's pretty handy, and pretty reasonable damage (add a ground punch).

It's not even as "semi-guaranteed" as an elbow stagger - throw. After PK hits, your opponent is free to do anything. If they stand there and hold guard for you sometimes, great, but if they're falling for that several times, you're just getting lucky. I could literally hit you with my biggest, most powerful move after I eat your PK if you dash forward and try to throw. I wouldn't need to struggle or anything.
Also, are we talking about pai or what? Who gets a free ground punch after which throw? Those are in short supply it feels like lately.

--------
As for not minor countering... eh, if I play to have fun, then I don't always take guaranteed minor counters. Or if I'm way behind in energy and getting desperate. Otherwise it never makes sense to pass up a minor counter to gamble on more damage. In VF2 for example I'll always P,K after a blocked knee, but if I'm down to a sliver and they're not doing anything because they're expecting a PK, I might try for an option select throw, eg Lau's b,f+P. Or maybe a kickflip.
One thing -
If you let the bad habit develop of not using minor counters, pretty soon you lose your sense of what's counterable and what's not and what the maximum damage you can get on a minor counter is. You may get so used to trying a knee or throw after blocking someone's move that you COULD have won the round with P,K but instead lose it by gambling. And it isn't because you were trying to be flashy, it was just force of habit.

 

Re: after akira's shrm

I've basically bowed out of this thread, but according to both the black book and PS2 magazine (whos' testers are Arashi, Masked Hijitestu, Yamiyodare, and Goro 2000), the shoulder is P counterable by Sarah, Aoi, and Pai.

Spotlite

 

Re: after akira's shrm

Yes, he has been made aware of his being WRONG and has been whipped to the bone on irc for being WRONG.

..and, just for counter-snot: all those "testers" - and still so many errors in the Black Book.

 

Re: after akira's shrm

Yes, he has been made aware of his being WRONG and has been whipped to the bone on irc for being WRONG.

are you talking to/about me?

Spotlite

 

Bungle wrote:

**you're conjuring up these situations that most of the times you're not even experiencing or executing**

Come to Boston or NYC and Shang or the NYC people will show it to you firsthand, you stupid whoremongering cock-gobbling twat.

Junes, have you even fought against Akira yet? When you block a should ram, what happens?

One of the reasons why Bungle is bitching is that this exact situation will happen almost every single round vs. a competent Akira player. If the Akira doesn't employ the reverse/throw escape option select, then he's not taking full advantage of the game engine and is handicapping himself.

 

Re: after akira's shrm

Sup Cweed~
Sometimes the force of habit loses games for me (actually, it's just happened too many times...), an excellent point which u mentioned

I tell myself to stay away from this thread...but argh..too sick of assignments!

Anyhow...I'm with Rich when it comes to KD handing 'easy' big damage to the opponent. The example used here was Akira SDE..Kd...*insert combo*

That doesn't really annoy me.

What annoys the living sunlight outta me is this

Lau does a silly KD, ppp, d+k...now that is what I call a silly 'KD leads to big damage..no effort needed' or as toFU would call it 'LCHR'
' Low commitment, High Reward'

I have no time to think of fancy names for it...I simply call it the 'zap sie gai' move. (yeeee another cantonese word hehe)

As Rich wrote:
"""There's no bluffing in VF, either. Your lifebar and time left is there to see for all. You can't win the pot back if you make one mistake or give them an inch, and if you make a mistake you can lose more than half your lifebar - and then you'll really regret passing up opportunities"""

I'm also with Rich on this one...

<rant note>

Maybe I'm just so sick of the sticks at the arcade, maybe I'm sick of having no money to play the game, maybe I'm sick of the players at the arcade not QR/TR at all, making the game 'slow n stupid', I wanna be able to spod the challenger, kickflip, throw etc etc etc when he tries to TR/OR..I wanna be able to play mind games with him...not wait for him to get up...send him flying to the ground..wait again, maybe it's because I hate having to repeat these words ' THIS IS NOT KOF, DO NOT PRESS K, K, K! U ARE NOT USING DAIMON!~'

But in all honesty, the last time I seriously got turned on big time by VF was in sydney a month ago.

Currently, I just don't enjoy it a single bit.

<rant mode off>
<assignment mode on>

 

Re: after akira's shrm

Maybe the way to look at this constructively is not to let Akira shrm at all -- I mean, he has to crouch first right?

No. Buffer in a crouch dash... and the best Akira's I know seem to always be crouching anyways, usually via Taiwan stepping.

Hopefully kbcat or GodEater can get some movies of Robbie or No4 Akira play from Toronto to show you what I'm referring to.

 

Re: after akira's shrm

Ugh, don't get me started on how much I hate Robbie's shoulder ram (I was just bitching about it to Llany the other day -- my Aoi seems useless against him), and yes he is always crouch dashing around. If he's is moving while standing then I'm worried because that means he has a plan

Robbie's shoulder ram technique is pretty tricky. It's a mix of instant shoulders, with crouched right in front of you shoulder the instant your character twitches (usually hits in that case), or throw if he sees that you intend to block nonesense. Does this stuff work against us 100% of the time -- no, but even 50/50 it is usually enough for him to win him the match. Yes, I too find it a bit disheartening to block a shoulder an only land a low kick or a 50point throw in retaliation, and if not to eat some crazy combo like P - P - two fisted strike, or P - double palm, or DLC, etc, etc...

I persevere though. One day I'll figure him out!
kbcat

 

Re: after akira's shrm

Perhaps this technique wouldn't work against you. Instead of momentary confusion, you would clearly react with "he's not punishing my mistakes... let's get him!".

Also, I don't want to over-emphasise it. This is very much an exception rather than a rule... I kind of regret mentioning it in this thread, since it's not really relevant to the discussion.

grib.

 

Re: after akira's shrm

Sure it is...I thought your point was that it could be more rewarding to go for a big damaging attack that is not guaranteed if you know how the opponent is going to defend, instead of going for the smaller damage but guaranteed counter. Perfectly OK argument.

 

Re: after akira's shrm

Well, I replied to your post, and CreeD was the one in error about who could P mC...so.... . .. ... . .. .. ....

 

Re: after akira's shrm

gotcha.

I was thinking about this some more today. I'm going to re-nig on my bowing out again.

If the girls (aside from vanessa) can hit with a P, couldn't one:

A) condition Aki to try to reverse-DTE the P, then respond with a mid or low or spin attack of choice next time as the high rev. whiffs? When Akira goes back to just GDTEing (since he can just defend the mid attacks anyway), go back to using the P.
B) use the P as a starting point for your own flow chart: P-throw, P-mid attack, etc.
C) try to get Aki to escape the P from recovery, then nail him with a spin attack/throw
D) mix these tactics with just going for the guaranteed throw

I realize these are just more guessing games in the face of preferable damage, but it might be a way to take advantage of what's there to work with. At first I wondered what use there was to having a mere P counter, now it's starting to seem usefull. If you can get it, you'd get the damage from the P and the throw.

Spotlite

 

Re: after akira's shrm

Px flowcharting just doesn't seem work as well as it did in VF3. Normal hitstun is so unbelievably short in VF4. P, PK, PP, most PPP variants...opponent just zips back into neutral position so fast it's not funny. It's a lot like VF2 in that respect - unless the P MC's, the opponent is pretty much on even ground and as has much chance of stopping/reaming you as you do against him.

whinewhinewhinemoanmoanmoan.

 

Re: after akira's shrm

Punch counterable = Akira will not have enough frames to reverse the punch.
A) Akira should NEVER reverse high after shoulder; too much to risk, too little to gain.
B) risk 4 u = shoulder p dlc and you trying to get up, reward 4 u = p.
C) spin attacks = you get MC SDE baby!
D) mix is good...

it's not that you can't beat the shrm.. its because you can't beat the mid-RTE... Believe me, Aoi can give you the same headache. (passes the mic to yupa)

 

Re: after akira's shrm

> Px flowcharting just doesn't seem work as well as it did in VF3. etc etc whine moan...

Just wanted to add that I actually think this is a very good thing. Single punch safety play madness in VF3 was moronic. What I think sucks is that it's the only thing you can do after blocking a 55 point move, in VF4. Grumble.