VF5 Akira Thread

Har, har. I hope you all your future flops miss you!

 

I've been in Tokyo playing VF5 for 3 weeks now, using only Akira, getting ready to come home. Sorry if you don't feel I'm a reliable source, but you already got the correct answer to your question.

The shoulder no longer floats, on any kind of hit. If akira makes a normal hit, the oppt gets staggered. If Akira makes a counter hit, the oppt gets staggered. It's also no longer useful as a re-float tool, the oppt will just drop to the ground. Basically, akira's shoulder became Goh's shoulder.

Bryan

 

He does think you are a reliable source, thus why he was questioning my information in the first place. So they changed it from before, now stagger on any hit.

 

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Srider said:
He does think you are a reliable source, thus why he was questioning my information in the first place.

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Yeah, heh. Thanks for the straight answer akiralove.

 

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akiralove said:

I've been in Tokyo playing VF5 for 3 weeks now, using only Akira, getting ready to come home.
Bryan

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How'd you do?

GE

 

My First Impressions of playing Akira in VF5, Revision 1.

based on about 3 weeks of play in Tokyo, mainly @ Sega West Shinjuku, Sega Hi Tech in Shibuya, Namco in Yokohama and a few other places. For the most part I played in the afternoon/evening, so I didn't see too many of the super-strong players that come out usually at night. about 250 vs matches, roughly 50% wins, 4th dan. Version A basically still isn't out in Japan. The first day I got there, it was in the W. Shinjuku Sega, but a day later it was gone, and since all machines I saw at all arcades are back to Revision 1.

In a nutshell, if you've played Akira in FT, you'll feel Akira became powerful again, and a bit less technical. The SDE is no longer Throw counterable, and since the DE no longer floats, you won't have to focus so heavily on hit checking and following with the proper stance-based combos after counter DE/normal SDE. I feel that for FT, Sega wanted to make Akira as technical as possible, and tone him down considerably. While he has become easier to use again, he's also retained some of the weakened points from FT, like elbow counterable Yoho, counterable Knee, Strugglable ++ etc.

Playing VF5, I felt Akira is really powerful, but with the same basic framework that he's always had: strong Nitaku between single hitting mids and throw. I'd sum it up this way:

1. Using + looking for a Counter Hit so you can combo is the most basic attack for Akira in VF5. Knowing which situations will get you a guaranteed Counter Hit and acting upon them, as well as yomi'ing well and using this move with some guts is what separates the good Akiras from the great, from what I've seen and what I've been told.

2. Akira's main throw has become ++. You should always be trying to make this throw, especially if you are close to the wall, low wall, or edge of an open ring. As long as you aren't too predictable, this throw is Akira's best tool aside from the +. The risk of minor counter guaranteed damage is worth the reward of this throw.

3. To make truly great damage, Akira has to use his slower/riskier attacks, like his Knee, +, +, ++ etc. If you can use these moves to good effect, Akira can create staggering damage in the 50% of the oppt's life range. These moves allow Akira to create damage that usually can't be seen by using + and ++ (with the exception of using ++ near the wall, which can lead to near 50% damage, but it's rare). Please see hk-vfnet clip FN_3086 to see Mukki make great use of Akira's knee to argue my point.

This is the basic picture of Akira in 5, from the point of view of a beginner (which I am). The first two points have been made well by Ohsu and others, and the 3rd point is familiar from VF4. But, I think the 3rd point is really deep, because there's a part of this game people haven't had time to completely master yet, even in Japan: the new side/back KD's, side position stun advantage, and the use of OM. Most of us have seen in clips what using these things well together can do, and Akira can get just as much if not more damage out of a well played side position advantage (IE after hitting with +++ or ++, /) as he can from a counter hit Yoho/Knee.

This is what makes Akira so powerful in VF5, IMO. Not only does he have the amazing SDE and ++, he's retained almost all of this other great moves without much nerfing (DblPm anyone?), AND he has his new moves and set-ups which on the one hand give him better poking tools (+, ++ /, + etc), and on the other hand allow him to take giant chunks of damage. On top of all this, in part because of the new systems, and in part because of the properties of the + and ++, Akira's wall damage and ring out potential have almost doubled in my estimation. Akira is a monster in VF5, BUT it's important to remember: he's not the only one...

Changes/Losses:

while it's hard to know exactly how much things have changed w/out frame data, there are a few things that can be mentioned up front as being important. As mentioned before, Akira's ++ Shoulder no longer floats, but produces a butt stagger on any type of hit (although I heard it'll make a side KD, I've not seen it myself, so I can't say, I wouldn't be surprised). This is probably the biggest loss to his game, as he no longer has a 1-frame execution floating attack from crouch aside from the Knee, which is one frame slower and can be tough to do. The shoulder also gave good damage combos, in fact I'd say it was his most common air-combo starter in VF4. The only good news on that front is that according to the white book, there's now no longer any mC against the shoulder. In addition, the + no longer floats, but I don't think it's a real loss, as it allows you to mentally separate the DE as a poking tool from the SDE, which is a damage tool.

Since the shoulder no longer re-floats in combos, players will have to use the Knee, Yoho or Fukko (+) to re-float. The last option is by far the easiest, and gives comparable damage, although I don't think the Ukemi-zeme is as good, because the DblPm hits much lower at the end. In the White Book, Ohsu states that ending open stance Yoho -> -> + -> DblPm w/ instead gives the best Ukemi-zeme, but I've never tried it, although I see a lot of people ending ++ combos w/ .

The ++, string no longer requires hit/guard to be used, and there's no longer any timing requirement for the 2nd hit, although it still seems like delay isn't a factor. The hit throw from the backstep stance no longer requires counter hit to work. In more good news, the DLC and AS3 have both been made easier, which I think is nice for beginners. The DLC can now be finished with simply +, which gives 15 damage instead of the normal 30, and Akira makes the same "ho" sound he made in VF4; whereas if you do the complete command, he'll growl at the end like he does after his side throw. The nice thing is that the game doesn't require you to fully commit to the + only command, so that if you're learning, or you fluff and do say or only then +, the bodycheck will still appear. The AS3's command has been made much simpler, now being only ++, , +. This is also a nice addition to me, as it lets people bring out this often under-used little string.

While in versions up to revision 1, it was possible to struggle out of the DblPm after the ++, according to the latest arcadia it has become guaranteed again! Personally, I think if people were good enough to struggle it at fastest buffer, they should have been able to. This is truly bad news for people who get stumble-thrown by Akira with his back to the wall, as DblPm makes the new Wall KD, which can be followed with + -> DblPm/AS3, or DLC if you're at an angle to the wall. While on the subject, I did land a few Stumbling Throw -> Single Palm -> DblPm's my first day playing the game, but I'm not sure if the DblPm is still guaranteed or not once the SglPm hits. I can say you're in range though, so it could still work. Other than this, an intersting note is that against lightweights, if you follow the throw with the SDE, the AS3 will now connect, which it wouldn't in 4 because of being in open stance after the SDE. If SDE-DblPm is still possible, it's gonna take super-good buffering, I've never seen it. Even after the ++, /++, SDE -> DblPm is much harder, although I know it's possible here. Basically, seems after the SDE, you have to buffer the DblPm later now than in VF4.

I'm going to go more into specifics about the Attacks then Throws in my next post, hope this was informative (although admittedly basic). The good stuff is yet to come /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Bryan

 

Thanks for the report. Man, I can't wait for VF5 to come home.

 

Thanks for the great post, Byran. One question. Can AS3 be done with the VF4 command? I assume it can be but just wanted to double check.

 

Awesome Bryan--great report. Hope to also hear your impressions about the other characters, the game system, and the VF5 culture as well.

 

sorry for the slow response, work & jacob's 1st birthday keeping me busy, I'll make next big post in the coming days.

Maddy: I suppose you could input the old command for the AS3, but it won't make any difference to the CPU, unlike the 2 kinds of DLC. You'd just be wearing out your hand for no reason. To me, it actually felt fun to get the hang of NOT pushing the stick.

Jeff: yeah, I intended to make a post in another thread about my general thoughts on the game as a whole (better than VF4, there are some issues w/ the system I think should be fixed). But, I wasn't in Japan long enough to comment on the "culture" in general, suffince to say, I think that while arcades have bought the game in good numbers and have high hopes for it, it's not as popular as something like Gundam, or even VF4 in it's prime. Oh, and the Terminal kicks ass, the new customization system is really nice.

Bryan

 

Some VF5 Akira impressions after watching all the Akira matches up to date,



1.SDE and the new 46P+G creat a fearsome nitaku that's more deadly than ever. This would force people to rely on ETEG. Due to loss of Shrm as a floater, incoporating delayed knee or standing palm would be the best options for 3 way nitaku.




2. SDE, P, dbl palm(closed stance) and
SDE, P,P dbl palm(open stance) look to be overall the best options from SDE on counter. Ending with DLC or DJK both lead to a bad wake up game.




3. The body check(466P+K) can cause a body collapse followed by 43P, dbl palm for a lot of damages. The conditions are uncertain to me, but it could be a great RN option coupled with 214P.




4. The damage of 16P+G needs to be nerfed a little bit as his best throw in 6 direction is 46P+G.




5. Dbl palm into wall can lead to a wall spat which can be followed by 43P, dbl palm. This can be guaranteed from 43P+G or 42P+G, which makes it a deadly option out of throws.




6. 6P4 can be followed by a canned elbow that floats on counter, which is a great option as a quick poke with a nice dmg potential. Joseph Akira uses this move nicely to beat the likes of Chibita and Itoshun. These matches are still on HongKong website and highly recommended.




7. DE doesn't float anymore, but on counter it seems to give you a mid adv(assumed to be +4 or 5), which creates a nice nitaku situation with a throw or SDE. This nitaku is powerful because the fast reaction required from opponent after getting hit by DE.




8.Due to the loss of the floating Shrm, Akira lost a great mc punisher after blocking moves that are about -16 or 17 on block. This reduces his dmg potential a lot in those situations, so being able to buffer his knee(17 f exc) would become an important skill to learn.

 

commenting on some of Maddy's points:

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2. SDE, P, dbl palm(closed stance) and
SDE, P,P dbl palm(open stance) look to be overall the best options from SDE on counter. Ending with DLC or DJK both lead to a bad wake up game.

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the white book says that in closed (that is, you're in closed stance after the SDE, once oppt is in the air), , +, DblPm is best damage, although I don't know if the 2nd reduces the effectiveness of his ukemi-zeme, I never used this combo. While this is a good point, I think the best thing to keep in mind is how important ring position is in VF5. Because of the new wall system, ease of RO over low walls, and the threat of normal RO, aggressive types like Akira are smart to push the oppt close to the edges of the ring quickly. This is especially true when you mix the SDE's ability to push the oppt across the ring w/ combos that use the DLC, then look towards using ++ once you're there (further illustrating your point #1, Maddy). Also, if you're going for a KO, combos ending w/ the + or DLC will give better damage, so I think it's best to use the combo ender that fits the situation best. The variety keeps it interesting, too; and is one of the things I love about the new SDE.

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3. The body check(466P+K) can cause a body collapse followed by 43P, dbl palm for a lot of damages. The conditions are uncertain to me, but it could be a great RN option coupled with 214P.


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/versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif this was also what I was talking about in my point 3 from my last post. Not only does the BC still have the same damage potential it did in VF4, on side/back hit you can add even more damage! A good example is after guarding Kage's ++, or ++: instead of going for the Back Throw, you can now do Bodycheck -> + (like after the PIT -> RBC). But even better is the side hit BC, which can be followed as Maddy pointed out.

I feel that against commonly used strings/attacks used in a certain situations over and over, practice in Training Mode will allow players to find ways to combine OM, OM , and DM with these kinds of side/back KD-making attacks to create giant damage. With practice, I think these tactics will become the essence of the best VF5 play, so that foolish use of even common strings like Lau's + can lead to BIG damage, on par with the best launchers.

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4. The damage of 16P+G needs to be nerfed a little bit as his best throw in 6 direction is 46P+G.

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I see what you're saying, but I think that in VF5, people should break against Akira like they do against Wolf, because of the power of ++. There aren't many cases when using the Shin'Iha is better anymore, and people can nerf the damage themselves by TR'ing properly (a skill most people haven't mastered, whereas most good people can avoid full Giant Swing damage). Also, I don't think it's possible to get the + if you throw them into a wall anymore in 5. Just my opinion, I think if they need to nerf something, they should make the DblPm struggleable after the ++.

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5. Dbl palm into wall can lead to a wall spat which can be followed by 43P, dbl palm. This can be guaranteed from 43P+G or 42P+G, which makes it a deadly option out of throws.

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While I know this works for sure w/ the ++, I haven't seen it w/ the ++, are there clips that show it? Seems like there are 2 possible correct timings for the RBC -> DblPm, one that hits them in the back (fastest), and one that hits from the front; just like there were 2 timings for ST -> SglPm -> DblPm in 4, one that registered as a combo in the Stamina Guage, one that didn't. In HK clip FN_3216, at the end we can See Akira using the back-hit variation into the Wall, but Sarah doesn't do the Wall KD, just a normal fall which Aki ends w/ the Knee. But, this was on a slight angle, so maybe that's why? I can't remember seeing the Wall KD w/ the oppt facing the wall, falling backwards, is this possible? Either way, I'd like to know exactly what is/isn't possible.

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6. 6P4 can be followed by a canned elbow that floats on counter, which is a great option as a quick poke with a nice dmg potential. Joseph Akira uses this move nicely to beat the likes of Chibita and Itoshun. These matches are still on HongKong website and highly recommended.

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Just to clarify, this is the from his old backstep (+++). From the +, Akira can now do the which only has one string, . But, by doing +, ++, Akira goes to his old backstep, where you have all the options from FT (hit throw, Sabaki, slow & fast mid ). This is what you're seeing.

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8.Due to the loss of the floating Shrm, Akira lost a great mc punisher after blocking moves that are about -16 or 17 on block. This reduces his dmg potential a lot in those situations, so being able to buffer his knee(17 f exc) would become an important skill to learn.

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i think this is really true, also I think it'll be crucial to know when you do and don't have enough time for the Yoho to hit on mC. You don't want to relegate yourself to mC DblPm damage, or playing a game from the Shoulder.

hopefully I'll have time to write more tonight.

B

 

Hi. I have some problems with Akira´s ++ in Evo and want to know If i´ll have them in VF5 as well.
I´ll explain.
I changed to a stick recently and since then almost always when I input DLC, just + comes out. So i went to Practice and Switched on the command displayA. I figured out that my is always about 1 or 2 frames after +.
But that should not be a problem because other moves that include work when the directional input is 1 or 2 frames after the button input. And it´s not because Akira has a standing + move. I tried the same with Wolf and Wolf´s ++ is no problem for me.
So i want to know if this has changed if VF5.

 

Thanks just got my mistake. I Input P too early. So it was recognized as K+G P And not as K+G d/f P. Hrrrrmphhhh. Sorry for bothering you. But Stick Is Way much different from Pad. Still SPoD and K+G(Release G after 1 Frame) are much easier to do with Stick so Stick on.

EDIT: First Post mistake: K+G P only came out when trying to do complete DLC, not the initial Move alone.

 

Am I the only one who has a really really hard time with ?

 

CD to get the double palm out a maximum time.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

You can also do it instantly from any move that puts you in crouching postion:
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

 

Thanks a lot, I'll try that tonight when I get the chance. Btw, what does cd mean? Their are a lot of terms used on here that im not familiar with. Ive palyed VF3 and VF 4 a decent amount but not to the level that its broken down on here.

 

CD = crouch dash.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif

Allows you to dash forward or backwards while in the crouching postion.

 

Ive been trying that for the last 5 minutes. It helps a lot, now I just need to get it down so I can do it every time.

The other two ones that are plaguing me are K + G (relase G after 1 frame) and DF K+ G, Forward Punch, Back Forward Forward P+ K. I cant seem to either 1. get the timing right for the final hit or im not doing it fast enough.