1. Hey Guest, looking for Virtua Fighter 5: Ultimate Showdown content? Rest assured that the game is identical to Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown so all current resources on here such as Command Lists with frame data, Combo Lists and the Wiki still apply. However, you can expect some VF5US specific changes to come soon!
    Dismiss Notice

VF5 Brad Guide (Work in Progress)

Discussion in 'Brad' started by Libertine, Jun 7, 2009.

  1. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

    The goal of this guide is to produce information similar to what has been produced here:


    Here is what has already been recorded in the Wiki, including Myke's well worked-on Phasing Turn chart:


    There are some errors in the Wiki, but Myke was informed of them and will get around to making the corrections.

    Here are some other important threads that are noteworthy:

    VF5 Ver. C Brad Combos

    Advantage When Entering Into Stances Off Moves

    Random Brad Information

    Brad's Clinch

    Phasing Turn

    Brad's P+K

    Oki, Long Range, and Back Turned Options

    Side Crumple Combos and Setups

    So I guess the object here is to fill in the rest of the Wiki and maybe then some. If anyone has found anything of significant importance that they would like to add, or just some cool tricks that they've discovered, post them here. This could also be a request thread for specific Brad information. I want to create as thorough a guide as possible.

    I'm going to contribute things as soon as I do some more testing.
  2. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

    Here is a continuation of this thread:

    Advantage When Entering Into Stances Off Moves

    I will repeat stuff in that thread here for the sake of convenience. This is only stuff that works on guard. I haven't tested anything on hit or counter hit yet. Hopefully someone with whom a good symmetrical connection is established with me can assist in the future. Anyway:

    On Guard:

    [P][P] = No options will beat out anything*
    [6][P] = No options will beat out anything**
    [K][P] = Slipping Right [P] will beat the opponent's elbow
    [4][K] = Slipping Right [P] will beat the opponent's elbow ([4][K]+[G][K] entrance is the same)
    [4][P] = No options will beat out anything
    [4][P][K] = Slipping Left [P] will beat the opponent's elbow***
    [6][6][P]+[K][P] = Slipping Left [P] will beat the opponent's elbow
    Sway Back [P] = Slipping Right [P] will beat the opponent's elbow
    Sway Back [P]+[K][P] = Slipping Right [P] will beat the opponent's elbow
    Phasing Turn [P] = Slipping Right [P] will beat the opponent's elbow and Slipping Left [P] will beat the opponent's jab
    Phasing Turn [P]+[K] = Slipping Left [P] will beat the opponent's elbow
    Long Ducking [P][P] = Slipping Right [P] will beat the opponent's elbow and Slipping Left [P] will beat the opponent's jab

    *In VF5R, [P][P][8]/[2] Slipping Left [P] will beat the opponent's elbow
    **In VF5R, [6][P][8]/[2] Slipping Left [P] will beat the opponent's elbow
    ***In VF5R, [4][P][K][2]/[8] Slipping Right [P] will beat the opponent's elbow

    In addition, I've noticed that whenever you shift into Slipping Left/Slipping Right off of any move, that Slipping Left/Slipping Right [P]+[K] will evade the opponent's jab. I don't know if stuff like [P][K] will catch it before it hits though. This is something else that I will need to test.

    Another thing: I don't know if this is a CPU quirk or what, but some strings seem to jail on guard depending on the range. For instance, I believe that if you use [4][K]+[G][K] at the default range, the opponent won't be able to attack in between the two hits. The CPU attempted to do this when I started the string from a closer range, however. Can anyone explain this?

    Thanks goes out to bigjohnson54 for starting this work! [​IMG]
  3. tonyfamilia

    tonyfamilia Well-Known Member

    Thanks for doing this, great work [​IMG]

    There are strings that can not be interrupted after the first attack of the string is blocked, unless the next attack is high and you do a move like 2P which would go under the high. It might be possible to sabaki or reverse a canned followup attack but it's not something that I know much about.
    If the canned followup is low you can do a move that avoids lows.
    For example, you can't interrupt the second attack of K+G 2+K+G after you block the first K+G. The opponent can't interrupt it with 2P or even P but if they do a move that avoids lows they can interrupt it.
  4. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    "Jail on guard", "sticky guard", "natural combo on guard" are all the same thing, and describe the effect of once having guarded the first attack, you're stuck in a guard and unable to perform any other action, regardless of the attack levels.

    This is what I think Libertine is referring to.

    One explanation for why [4][K][+][G][K] jails on guard at default range, but not at close range is as follows.

    [4][K][+][G] has 3 active hit frames, and generates a fixed amount of block stun. I believe that the amount of block stun is on the cusp of making it a natural combo on guard, or not, and the only variable is which of the 3 hit frames you make contact with.

    If you contact with the first hit frame (i.e. you're in close range), then the opponent will have enough time to recover from block stun and be able to do something before the next attack.

    If you contact on a later hit frame (i.e. you're in med/long range), then the opponent won't recover from block stun in time to do anything before the next attack.

    This is the same in concept as explained in my old Frames Guide under the section "Reducing your disadvantage".

    But since I haven't tested this myself it could all very well turn out to be a Training Mode quirk with how the CPU determines it has enough time to counter attack after guard. [​IMG]

    p.s. great work in collating this info, Libertine!
  5. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

    Yes Myke, that's what I was referring to. Thanks! It makes sense to me now. If you would, could you explain to me why some combos will work in Quest Mode and not Dojo Mode? I could never get [​IMG][3][P] [P] [​IMG][3][P] [4][6][K][+][G] to work on Lion and others in Dojo Mode, but in Quest I've gotten it. It's just weird. :p

    Well, before I do more testing for the Ducking, Slipping stuff, I thought that I'd do some okizeme for Brad's throws. He has the weakest throw game as far direct damage is concerned, but he can set up some nice stuff with them. Here is what I've found, along with some ambiguity:


    Myke mentioned this setup before, but he mentioned using the OM towards a specific side if they rolled in a certain direction. I tested this on Jacky, and had the CPU roll towards both the back and the front and use a rising mid kick. After this throw, I used OM towards either side of my opponent, and then followed with OM [K] in the same direction to crumple my opponent. The difference I noticed as far as which side you OM to is this: OM towards your front leg and you will get a back crumple. OM towards your rear leg and you will get a side crumple. The latter allows Brad to combo more easily, and allows for the most damaging combos depending on the character. For instance, I could only get dash in [P] [3][P][+][K][P] on Jacky from the back crumple, but from the side crumple I could get [6][6][P][+][K][P][2]/[8] Slipping Right [K].

    Here's where the ambiguity comes in: I tested this on both Jacky and Sarah and could avoid the rising mid kick everytime. However, when I used the OMs towards my rear leg, Eileen could hit me sometimes. I figure it's a hitbox issue. After using [P][+][G] on Eileen, I attempted to use [P][K][G] followed by OM [K] towards my rear leg and was interrupted much less often.

    For characters who have rising low spin kicks only (i.e., as opposed to stuff like Jeffry's low headbutt), I used OM towards either side, followed by [P][+][K]. After the counter hit, I was able to string together [P][K] (Keep in mind here the special force crouch property allowing highs to connect) for 65 damage. I never messed up the timing for this once. I've tried [6][6][K] instead, and that worked too but the timing needs to be there. I tested this with Eileen.

    If your opponent just lies down like a sack of potatoes, you should be able to connect with a light down attack.


    I found nothing special here for catching rising low kicks. The only thing noteworthy that I found here was against rising mid kicks after your opponent rolls to either side. Perform an OM towards the opponent's head followed by PT [K] in the same direction. I tested this against Sarah and it worked everytime. It will work against Eileen too, but sometimes the PT [K] will whiff against her, and she will be in the BT position.


    I tested this against Sarah. IIRC, using an OM towards the opponent's head or feet followed by OM [K] in the same direction will give you a crumple if they roll towards the front and attempt to use a rising mid kick. If they roll towards the back, sometimes the rising mid kick will interrupt if done towards the head.


    If you expect the opponent not to recover, you can use [6][6][P][+][K][P].

    tonyfamilia has demonstrated in the past that if the opponent uses exact recovery and rolls to either side, Ducking [K][+][G] will hit them. After they are hit with that they should fall with one of their sides facing you. Dash up and use [7_][P]. If they stay down, Brad will perform a heavy down attack. If they recover, Brad will jump away to a safe distance.

    That's it for now. I want to test more things and test them on all characters. If anyone sees anything wrong or would like to add something, please speak up!
  6. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

    Okay, I found out the answer to the combo question once I read the guide. [​IMG]

    Anyway, I've been testing the okizeme after throws stuff and there are inconsistencies among characters, and I haven't even tested this stuff on every character yet. Do you guys think it's a waste of effort to obtain this information? I don't know if enough people would want to bother committing this stuff to memory if things are too character specific.
  7. tonyfamilia

    tonyfamilia Well-Known Member

    Every bit of info helps bro. You may not get publicly recognized for whatever work you put in and share on vfdc but eventually (specially online) people will thank you and even those that don't post on vfdc come here and still learn from people like yourself who don't just practice and learn things to further their game but also to share it with others.

    For 46P+G the throw deals out so little damage that novice Brad players prefer not doing it at all but it is the throw with the best possibility for followup damage. Here are some of Brad's better options:

    46K+G This move is not only good to hit opponent's who don't recover. If you time it right, you can hit opponent's techrolling (TR'ing) to the background/foreground, get a backturned stagger and continue your offense. Even if the opponent does a quick rise in place (QR) there's a small window (much smaller than when they TR) where you can score a mid attack and they won't be able to block it. In Dojo set the cpu to QR and practice the timing. 46K+G is one of the mids that's great for this scenario but you can also try 6P; 2P+K; 4K+GK and P+K just to name a few.

    2K+G This move can whiff if you don't time it right and it can also be blocked leaving Brad at a huge disadvantage but it's usually guaranteed damage against a conditioned opponent who fears 2P+KP and 46K+G. It will hit opponents who evade right after TR/QR and, here's the best part, if the opponent doesn't recover it will hit them right after they've hit the ground! That's some nice damage but the fun doesn't have to end there lol, if they don't recover after 2K+G hits, you can get a heavy down attack (or light if they are really fast at rolling out of the way). So 46P+G -> 2K+G -> heavy down attack and you got a nice chunk of damage my friend.

    66P+KP & 4K+GK both will hit an opponent who does not recover but if timed right it can also hit an opponent when they QR also. Any of Brad's mids can be used against opponent's who TR to the foreground/background and will connect if timed right.

    This throw is also good to set up Brad's Hunting Mid Kick (SL K) and to play some OM P/throw head games.

    Like I said, you prob won't get much feedback here and also online lends itself to some pretty silly Brad tactics like DMP+K/2K+G spam >_< Good luck out there, I'm glad to hear that there's another Brad player online trying to develop new and improved tactics.
  8. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    Libertine, can you post an example of the inconsistencies you've found so far? Sometimes others may help you identify a trend that you otherwise can't see, so it might be worth a shot.

    Tony, I believe this is a bug/quirk with CPU "guarding" in training mode. No mid attack is ever guaranteed in this situation (QR after 46P+G).
  9. tonyfamilia

    tonyfamilia Well-Known Member

    The reason that I believe this to be true is bc not only have I done it against human opponents holding guard but I've had it done to me. Example: After one of Akira's qcf P combos (don't know what combo... don't know much about Akira really >_<) I've QR'd (face down, head towards opponent situation only) and still got hit in the face with that 46P+K double arm attack while I'm holding guard [​IMG]

    I don't know bro, I do know that the odds that you're right are way higher though XD but it's still something worth looking into with a sparring partner. Also, I think I may have learned this from Evo.
    Hopefully somebody else can test this since my xbox is RROD'd ;_;
    The window is very small and the timing very strict but I'm 90% sure that it's doable.
  10. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

    Well, it's been awhile since an update. I'll do more testing within the week, but lately I've been working on my movement options and found some interesting things.

    I was trying to find moves where I could defend myself by backdashing should they become guarded. I tested Brad's sidekick, and I was able to backdash out of the throw range of Eileen and the Heavyweights. I'm assuming that you can backdash out of the throw range of every character. I then set the CPU to alternate between an elbow and a throw, and I was able to backdash the throw and evade the elbows after the backdash. It didn't work every time, so either it's range dependant or the timing is really strict. It would help if we could still cancel backdashes with [G], but no longer is that possible. I may have been as close to the Heavyweights as possible when I tested this, meaning their backs to the wall with me as close to them as I could get, and managed to beat both options. It might just be a timing issue. Interesting anyway.

    It may likewise be possible with [3][P]. I also tested with SR [P], but it wouldn't work, despite it also being -6 on guard like his sidekick. I'll be testing other moves and post every one I find where this is possible.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice