VF5 Final Showdown Jeffry Discussion/Observations

I figured since others have tried to break down their characters, there should be a thread regarding Jeffry and his changes. This is merely observations, thoughts, and feelings about the new and improved Jeffry. I didn't follow 5R Jeffry too much, so if there's anything that's not FS Jeffry, let me know, and I'll correct it... So with that said, let's go!!!

I took a look at this match here:

http://ameblo.jp/aamuzan/entry-10580839874.html

(00:39) - + in a combo still does a bounce, but the 'bounce' is more like a 'bound' effect somewhat... Air throw is not possible immediately after that

(00:45) - to headbutt move. I'm not sure if it was in VF5R, somebody please confirm if it was... Looks like a hit thorw could come off of that headbutt just like the throw from +~+

(00:57) - Jeffry's new kick (could it be or something like it???) is -8 on block with some slight pushback. At (01:04) its done at a far distance and the camera shakes just like when Akira or Lei-Fei does a ground shaking move...

(02:24) - New shoulder ram looks like Craig Marduk's d+1+2 in Tekken... It's -5 on block, and it links to a throw (I'll find the other vid that shows it)... I wonder if it has any crush properties...

(02:26) - Is this headbutt from VF5R???

(02:56) - New low move that's -10. Looks like Kuma's low hits from Tekken... Don't know what the second hit does other than knockdown. @ (03:43) this move was done while landing from a jump... First hit is a knockdown on CH.

(03:02) - Reanimated (Reminds me of Bryan Fury's low kick)...

(03:40) - Knee from jumping. Don't know if the Shun player was backdashing or not though, but it looks like he was...

(03:46) - Headbutt from jump is -4 on block. On NH it knocks down...

I'll come up with more observations later - I'm pretty sure there were some things I missed... From what I see though, however, FS Jeffry is looking like a stronger version.

Just thought about this: In the match, Jeffry does a +, and it looked like it was -3 on block. Can anyone see if that was a hit or simply a blocked move??? And his knee looks like it launches slightly higher... Not sure if it was just me of if the move properties changed just a bit...

 

We finally have Jeffry discussion!!

 

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11283442

(00:39) - Jeffry has a new way of getting into threat stance from .

(00:44) - GTS does 60 damage now.

(02:10) - A (new?) straight punch from Jeffry which looks to slightly push back Vanessa on block, it's -3 and 25 frames to execute.

(02:23) - Jeffry has a new low stomp, is it a replacement for ducking low or +?

(02:24) - Second hit of Jeffry's new kuma 2 low hit string is -20 on block

(03:00) - Jeffry can now do his full circular with his Threat Stance and still has the option to without it. Since Threat + was taken out this is a good substitution for people who evade Threat Stance... and it does 67 on CH!

(03:03) - Front Back Breaker is back to 60 damage as opposed to 55 in VF5R, note it's 65 in VF5 Vanilla.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11283347

(00:39) - Threat Stance doesn't knockdown anymore on hit which sucks, however it's +4 on hit which is good.

(02:02) - is only -8 now on block!

(02:25) - New animation change from Jeffry's old + throw, also I'm pretty sure at 45 damage it's higher then VF5R but I can't remember.

(03:11) - ( perhaps) That jinxhand was hinting at gives a crumple and nets a good damage combo.

http://mmcafe.com/nico.html

(01:08) - (A new move or from VF5R?) Which looks similar to but instead does a straight-to-bound move for a combo instead of a float.

(01:42) - As jinxhand mentioned Jeffry has a new shoulder ram which links to a throw which can be seen here and nets 63 damage (77 CH on the fifth video against taka).

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11274946

(00:41) - Shoulder ram is +1 on hit and did 42 damage.

(01:33) - Elbow is -5 instead of -6 in Vanilla, but the sledge follow-up was -15 as opposed to -14 in Vanilla, not sure about VF5R frames, just pointing that out for fun.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11264390

(00:34) - Did nothing to Taka! I thought it would bound him for a combo, but at the very least a knockdown! It was +4 on hit though so that's good.

(01:13) - Jeffry's new straight punch that I mentioned in the first video against Vanessa, does it follow-up with that sweeping low kick kind of like a hit-throw or is it a separate move? It also gives a knockdown which is cool.

(01:21) - Jeffry's new stomp is +3 on hit, I think it's a bad move because it's slow at 26 frames and it's range is quite atrocious!

(02:02) - When Jeffry's + is escaped he's left at -6, also just a note that the throw does 50 damage.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11264501

(00:43) - (Threat Stance ?) is +3 on hit and -7 on block, but the highlight in this section it's a hit-throw which kind of looks like a shining wizard or just a running knee to the head and does good damage. The reason I have a question mark for Threat is because I haven't seen a single crumple from it yet, can it be that they took that out?

(02:34) - + is -8 so it's not throw punishable, wish it was the same in Vanilla!

If you can't watch the videos that I posted use this and copy the URL into it.

Jinxhand, regarding your question, + is actually -4, but I've noticed in a lot of videos that the same moves can differ by 1 frame for some odd reason which doesn't really make sense to me.

Also, maybe the launch looks higher for but I don't think it actually is, reason being that I still see the same combos on specific characters and floats such as ~~

The headbutt in (02:26) is indeed from VF5R, I don't know much about VF5R material though because I haven't had the pleasure of playing it!


My impressions/questions on Jeffry:

- Threat Stance is pretty powerful now, in Vanilla the problem was you could crouch Threat Stance and not worry much, in VF5R you could side-step and not worry much since the throw was taken out, in Final Showdown all sides are covered! The only thing I don't like about it right now is it's new animation... yuck.

- Has anyone seen a single splash mountain yet? I know I haven't and I'm wondering, is the input really hard, is the damage less, is it even there anymore?! If anyone has seen one let me know!

- Now that multiple bounces are gone, I think this will affect Jeffry's wall combo damage outputs considerably, what do you guys think?

- Do you guys think Jeffry's low game has gotten better or worse? I for one miss seeing ducking lows, and this stomp is just fugly!

- In Final Showdown, do you see Jeffry as a heavy slugger still or has he transitioned to more of a poke-game type of thing or a balance of both? I think now that lots of his moves aren't punishable like it used to be, it's more comfortable to use most of his movelist and not have to always think about knees on the back of my mind.

- Will Jeffry finally capture the devil shark in Final Showdown?

 

From the looks of things, I think Jeffry might actually have a better defense. I believe this iteration of Jeffry will have more options also. I do wish that there was a low from threat stance, though, but the different lows do help. I also wish that the "Kuma 2-hit low" had a low/mid option.

His low game seems toned down a bit. THe wall game might actually be toned down as well, seeing as he can do stronger combos now. The new + is more balanced imo. It pushes back on block, but on hit, you can't do the usual bnb combo + ...

 

Moves can vary in frames based on the range of the move and how many active frames it has.

If it is a long range move with a lot of active frames then when used at the maximum distance it will recover sooner (possibly by a couple of frames) as it is hitting with the later of the active frames.

This is present in Vanilla VF5 aswell and an example of it I could give is Sarah's (full spin heel kick) being -12 on block. But when used at a long distance it negates a few of these frames; meaning that if somebody tries to throw you after they block it at max distance you can do the move again to beat the throw clash.

 

If that's the case, I hope Jeffry's gets that treatment... I've tried tech traps, and all sorts of other things and can still be punished afterwards, regardless of range...


On the JE vs LI match on http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11264501, is that punch @ (01:27) a new move??? The JE player does it right off of a , so it looks like a . If that's the case, I hope not, because it doesn't look safe on block... Actually, @ (01:58) it looks like leading to more options.. Are any of these 5R related???

The punch/kick sequence at (01:29) seems like a good pushback on NH, but same kick is used from a different string @ (01:59) and was -7 on block. Didn't see too much pushback, plus the LI player was near the wall. Same kick @ (02:13) was done to LI and was side blocked, leaving JE at -4. That's the only frame difference I noticed, so it might not be a distance thing per sé.

Any corrections/clarifications on the 'frame variations vs distance' idea or anything else here is welcomed.

 

As I said I believe it has something to do with hitting with the later active frames.

In Vanilla VF5 Jeff's has only 2 active frames whereas the move with Sarah I am talking of has a whopping 9!

I was thinking just now to look at the 2 moves said and see if I can figure out how the frames at max range are decided but I can't understand it myself.

I was thinking if I deduct the amount of active frames from the recovery frames I would get the new disadvantage but it doesn't look like I do, because this would mean that if used at max range Sarah's flip would only be either -3 or -4 and I cannot actually believe that the flip would be that safe at max range.

Yeh just tested this on dojo. I was not able to fuzzy under a throw with a ranged . It may still be the case though because if you hit the CPU as they are getting up in dojo they get hit. Maybe to hit with the last possible active frame of it would have to be a sort of "meaty hit" (a la 2D fighter) as they are getting up.

If you want to see not being throw punishable just go to dojo, versus Blaze and turn on "throw after block" option. Then from the starting position do then again (I recommend using turbo on button if you have it as this is basically just-frame timing) and you will see that you beat out the throw attempt. However, if you walk right up to Blaze's face and try this you will see that you will get thrown and that you cannot beat the throw.

I've used , again a handful of times in matches actually. Of course you need to make sure when doing this that your opponent has a tendency to throw the blocked as if they do something such as jab you will be getting floated then combo'd.

 

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Don't see much going on here, but I noticed @ (01:27) sideturned does +10 and +2. Not sure if that is the same in VF5R.

(01:54) - 1st hit of 'Kuma low' is -4 on hit.

(02:36) - CH does launch ridiculously high. Not sure if it was this high in 5R, but I allows for flashier combos perhaps. In comparison to Vanilla VF5 it launches higher.

(02:28) - JE player ends combo in + instead of the knee (maybe to see what other moves would connect with that new bounce animation.

I'll keep digging for vids and analyzing for changes.

 

Splash Mountain is gone, no one would believe me but I confirmed what I didn't want to believe in myself with Reno, damn, just damn.

 

But his old + is still there

 

Yeah it is, but it's not even comparable and to me it's a slap to the face. It boggles my mind that they would take it out, it doesn't make any sense to me, isn't the damn throw game supposed to be stronger now that there's only 3 inputs!?

 

No need to really worry about not having Splash Mountain. He still does massive damage, and there are so many ways to get that damage in. As far as his throw game, having a 33% chance of breaking his throws helps him still. It forces people (like me) to mixup those throws more, and get that Splash Mountain damage without necessarily doing Splash Mountain (if that makes any sense)... I think the throw game is stronger just on the simple fact that you don't have to auto MTE and expect to break throws constantly... You have to think about which break to use...

 

I also dislike that the standard splash mountain is gone, was his trademark throw, they could perhaps have made the input for it like wolf's 270º throws or something.

 

I don't agree at all. What do you mean there's no need to worry about losing your strongest throw? Now there's only a 50% chance to get 60 damage, GTS or FBB, I don't like that at all. I was expecting Splash to get a damage boost too, how silly of me.

I don't know what massive damage you are talking about, now Jeffry is average at best, he's not the power house he once used to be. Pretty much everyone is doing their 100(+) damage combos now, there's nothing special about Jeffry in that department. Weight doesn't seem to make much of a difference compared to past games which doesn't help Jeffry, I mean when Eileen is doing a 100 damage combo on Jeffry and I see Jeffry's damage output it doesn't really look much different.

In VF5 Vanilla just because you could auto MTE doesn't mean that your not supposed to think which break to use, I primarily use splash 90% of the time and it's almost never broken, think about that.

I agree that they should have changed the input to make it harder instead of getting rid of it.

 

Jeffry vs Sarah: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41wIml4BSHU

1:43 = If Splash Mountain is gone is what we see here the "TKOD" ( (hit) +)? I'm unfamiliar with VF5 Jeffry's animation for the TKOD, but to me, the backdash immediately after seemed to insinuate, visually, that the Splash Mountain was a seperate action.

It looked like the Sarah player even had time to fuzzy guard. If it was one entire action (backdash included) it certainly didn't look like a typical hit-throw, more like a catch throw to me...

Also, just to chime in on patented techniques; as long as he still has his "Toe Kick", "Hell Stab", "Back Breaker" and "Machine Gun Knee Lift" (on top of the "TKOD") personally I reckon that his conceptual integrity will endure.

 

Here, here! Let us drink to Jeffry's enduring conceptual integrity. Cheers!

 

Since vf5 vanilla jeffry had that, but it's not really a "hit" throw, it needs a specific timing to be performed.
Some days ago I saw a clip (a jeffry vs jeffry video) where the players were trying something about the TKOD, and seems like both players can perform a back dash, and the splash mountain still throw the opponent. I hope sega sill fix that, because it sounds like a bug to me. If I find the video I'll post it.

 

it isn't a bug. Or at least, Sega has had many na year to fix that code and elected to do nothing.

 

Found the video, it's jeffry vs wolf (i tought it was a jeffry vs jeffry).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQHnjcCb_5c

It's clearly a video where the players are trying something. Not a real match. In the 3rd round the "bug" occours.

4th and 5th round show the properties of the TKOD from side turned and back turned situation.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X544JQR04GA