VF5:FS Ver A Video Properties

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

Adding the arrow indicators is a great addition. For a few longer moves that wind up (Akira's fully charged 46pk for example), it would probably be more helpful for the arrow indicator to blink the direction you should evade as the move comes out and turn solid when you can evade the move. In the video shown, if Shun didn't do a rising attack and tried to evade Aoi's 66p when the arrow first appeared, they'll get hit by the move.

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

Um, I think the Aoi example was clear enough, so you get the point that when the arrow appears in the video, you dodge when you see the arrow, but you get hit. For a few moves and some charge attacks...yeah I can evade anytime during the execution...except I'll get hit without taking into account where I am distance wise and correct timing...

Myke, you played Heruru...how good was he with that Lei charge attack...My suggestion is the arrow blinks in the direction you should dodge and turns solid as a kind of dodge "now" marking. It adds some clarity and should help people practicing timing for charge attacks that can vary in distance and release timing or with attacks that wind up like Aoi's 66p.

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

I remember talking to you about this, and dodging strings, back in the day Myke. The important point for me was to do an "empty" evade, just evade & that's it, because as soon as you start loading your evade with other commands or doing anything else after the evade, it'll track, right?

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

Sometimes it will track especially when your opponent delay the next coming attack. But these cases are very rare to see~

Btw, you can evade immediately when the charge moves start.

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

Myke I wrote exactly this:

In the video shown, if Shun didn't do a rising attack and tried to evade Aoi's 66p when the arrow first appeared, they'll get hit by the move.


I just did further testing and what I said is true. If you do it too early (as when the arrow first appears) you will simply get failed evade and get hit.

In any real match, of course there's tracking. Re-read what I wrote, it's only a couple sentences. The arrows tell you where to evade and not exactly when an evade would have been successful in the context of the match (meaning you can see if the opponent just tried an empty evade or another input). Aoi's 66P is perfect evidence in the context of every match, as the arrow showing dodge to her front so early is helpful, but could be better. Do you really need me to video capture it with someone and do a side by side for you?

In my example you'll get hit by Aoi's 66p everytime (probably a bunch of other characters moves that are semi-circular and lunge from a distance) and in some instances depending on the match, various charge attacks. Why do you think you and everyone else got hit by Heruru's charge attack (though it's linear) with Lei from half way across the screen or maybe wolf's charge attack? Was Hereru just lucky? Yeah the answer is anytime, just do an empty evade. Now let's look at a real match. How do players get the moves to land then? You got all the data in the match replay, a solid signal is telling me where, but not when.

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

Do you mean at 21sec on that video right? I think as long as the sign appears, then u can evade.

U can evade wolfs charge move immediately;but u can still get hit if u dash forward or slow attack right after that successful evade. For example, after wolf's PK hit, you can evade his P+K charge immediately just like the way you evade his 63214P. But if you tend to attack wolf right after, his charge move will track you again! The same thing as Lei's charge move, even you "hear" that you already evade successfully, you can still get hit once you don't hold your position. Or just simply consider charge move without charging such as wolfs p+k，it's available to evade his back side too.

Btw, you can test AOI by PK hit, and then switch between 6p and 66p to see your opponents reaction.

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

Yup it's around 21sec with Aoi. Double yup to the Wolf and Lei examples. The replays have the match data, so replay the system already know the opponents inputs. I don't know the formula used to display the arrow indicators, first frame of execution or not. Using your Wolf, Lei examples there are other variables to consider other than direction. The arrow could blink from the first execution frame to indicate when a dodge is possible, but we don't know if the person will actually dodge. The replay has information such as if the person tried to dodge guard or attack etc. A tiny dodge "now" indicator, by making the arrow become solid or change color, would be helpful with so many possibilities.

I also agree Lei's charging attack tracks well, I've been on the receiving side of getting hit after thinking I properly timed my attempt to dodge and attack. Hearing a successful dodge sound and getting hit is rare, but has happened to me.

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

I'll take that as a sincere request and oblige in a bit. Before then, no one else needs to chime in This is the third time u know? (Lau's sabaki at large advantage, Jacky's high angle on guarded low rising) I recorded and dumped the video already, but to make it extra crystal clear I'm going to overlay or at least take some screen caps of the original FS vid.

Not from me. I merely made a suggestion about the arrow indicators. As you so clearly pointed out after I already attempted to describe, there are situations that arise that can muck up the dodge even though the person evaded the correct direction. We all know the right answers ala just empty dodge a charge attack anytime, same goes for dodging moves from the first execution frame. Does it play out for us in real matches that way? Are there peculiar moves in the roster?

You honestly don't see a conflict in the two statements you made?. If there's no such thing as "Exactly when" there's no need for reasons why you get failed evades. Your quote should read "There is such a thing as exactly when [to dodge] because there are a multitude of reasons why attacks hit people who attempt to evade."

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

Those arrow represent the property of moves, which means the opponents can evade during the entire window as the sign appears.

Actually too many details on the display is difficult for me to digest at the first time, but good thing is I can review over again to figure out.

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

I'm not debating the evade mechanic. Yes, that's correct. If you enter an empty evade. How many people enter in an empty evade? Evade crouchdash? Evade backdash? Evade guard? Evade pk? How about when you get hit as you try one of those? It's great the arrow stays on the screen the whole execution time. All I suggested is the replay data knows what you tried, it could blink the whole time and turn solid to indicate a successful window as it knows what the opponent trying to evade has attempted. This was just a suggestion as I felt it would add something to make it a more obvious learning tool.

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

VFs system is consistent for the most part and the majority of the time you will get a clean evade from an empty dodge after the first frame of execution. If you absolutely believe that there aren't peculiarities, the system will betray you. This conversation is about the evade indicators though.

Here's the video proof. No dodging early and double verification. Both of Shuns attempts are empty dodges.

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

Azusabo,

I might be out of my depth here, so forgive me if this is stupid, but:

Could it be that the dummy is set to evade based on a established amount (since it reads inputs) but not a specific move?

That is, the dummy is unreliable? or do you claim that aoi 66P ALWAYS messes up evades like that?

would that be a special property? delayed-evade special moves?

 

Re: VF5 Final Showdown Videos

No worries. It's a real person and done offline. Delayed-evade special moves don't exist. As mentioned, aside of some peculiarities, an empty evade after the first frame of execution will always work.

Because the arrow appears on the screen (like when moves are buffered into dashes or crouchdashes) and stays on the screen too long (like trying to dodge the moves recovery frames), the time when the actual first frame of execution to moment when the move can possibly connect should be made more obvious. There's no such thing as successful evading during a moves recovery frames, so I made a suggestion to make the arrow have more obvious differences as it's easily missed now.