VF5:R Sarah Updates

I'm definitely convinced now, Sarah is putting pain in new spots she couldn't before. The other videos in the thread, it looked like the players were trying out the old combos, that had improved hitboxes and animation, but this newer stuff is crucial.

KaminariOyaji, if you're reading this, you better start getting that JF 3 hitter now, cause look at the threat off of that speedy low now, and if you can do that move, you can land it ALOT.

And looks like the Serpent confirm, might become tougher to do? In the first video, the first hit connected but the 2nd one got blocked when that Sarah waited a lil bit too long, gotta be quick. Atleast it doesn't whiff now, shoooot though, the first hit might be actually safe again like evo(that's a hope. but if the 2 hit window is really large, you can fake it).

EDIT: ok let's see, the bitchslap in normal stance is good shit. the JF 3 hitter in flamingo is good shit. The knee in flamingo is good shit(sup Lucky). The double slap in Step stance is good shit. The hitboxes are good shit.

 

I noticed it as well. My thoughts about the new Sarah went from 'maybe good' to 'potentially unbalanced' in a flash. 70 damage outta normal hit low speaks for itself. Also, 74 damage outta step pnch-bitchslap thing.

 

Potentially unbalanced?

You're crazy, the risk far justifies the means. Sarah is not safe, this time around the reward is catching up to the risk.

It's looking like she's possibly back to where she has threats your opponent would be smart to respect.

She was underpowered, and alot of people on this forum didn't even know why, just by looking at the earlier posts in this thread alone.

 

What risk? That it can be interrupted with a punch after a flamingostarter? Thats more likely to lead into other deadly guessing games imo..

Hey I agree with Sarah being weak in 5 but I dont know where the 'unsafety' that I keep hearing about comes from. Personally I think she is just as safe or unsafe as other characters but simply doesnt get the damage that others get out of her stuff.

 

The Back KK string for jacky seems decent..but his 3kP2kk is pretty useless hopefully you can shuffle before the last K if not I wouldn't recommend using this move much. Jacky currently only has 3kpk last kick high..everyone ducks this move anyway waiting for the high kick its really no point to go low when the opponent will usually go low anyway not to mention its prob crazy disadvantage. Also the new low Jacky has will have some use but from the video its obviously disadvantage on hit much like Jeffery ducking low (only slower) Perhaps on counter this move crumbles??

 

Of course it's a deadly guessing game, how about the opponent just evades the 3 hitter set up, and launches Sarah? Remember, where's catch throw in flamingo stance? That's right, it's in Step stance now.

Unsafety? You basically just proved it in your post anyway.
And now the damage balances the risk.

Everything in VF is a risk, because everything can be avoided and/or delt with somehow. But when the reward does not equal to the risk involved, then that skews the safety. You gotta outguess your opponent 3 to 1? Do I need to list tons of mid moves that every other character has, that is NOT PK or throw punishable, that leads to guarantee upwards of 70pts of damage? Further more, some of those moves are slippery, and thus go under, over, or dodge typical retaliations even on their disadvantages, thus softening their own disadvantages making their overall safety improved in comparison. Plus those actual moves hit like they were supposed to, or even better(magic range), and don't randomly whiff even when initial parts hit. And this also goes without saying that Sarah lacked punches that knocked down(unless you count 6PK), and was basically counter and sabaki bait just as bad as Jacky(which I hope they helped his properties out too).

 

I dont think we are disagreeing on anything, but look at it from different viewpoints. I said Sarah lacks damage but is not unsafer than other characters. You say opponent can evade the 3-hitter. How exactly is having launcher evaded and getting punished a weakness exclusive to Sarah? It just sounds like your looking at this game through Sarah-tinted sunglasses so to speak.

ps. You can punish every evadeattack with that selfsame 3-hitter if you time it right. Of course its not very practical. Similarly any character can evade nearly any launcher in the game in not-guaranteed situation. I dont see why you have to bring that into this.

pps. O well Ive always been pretty lone with my views of Sarah so I dont wanna continue this further.

 

I brought that up because I'm saying that saftey is not just in frames. It's in properties, hit levels, and predictability too.

Take Akira for example, P+KP, and P+K3P(?) one hits high(and i think is double handed too?) and knocks down, but also gives advantage, the other is mid and is safe. Jacky doesn't even have anything like this, you'd think oh Jacky is safe man, cause alot of his stuff isn't punishable, but it IS because alot of his mids the 2nd part you just crouch, it doesnt even matter how safe or unsafe the next hit is, because you can just crouch it.

Take Sarah for example, most of her moves ended in a kick, or a kick is coming next in the string, you dont even have to know if the shit is high or mid, because you can just sabaki it with the same sabaki.

Now ALSO add that, if you would have guarded Sarah's string or Jacky's string, instead of sabaki'ing them outright or just crouching, they'd also be PK or 6P punishable too, and that aint even the case for most of the cast. This isn't even adding into effect the moves I was talking about, that go UNDER these already unsafe moves.

Safety is not just in frames, it's in properties, hit levels, and move hitting types. Predictability is just as unsafe as something being at -17 or 18(which happens alot for Jacky and Sarah as an example, anyway. and when I say alot, I mean in commonly landed and needed moves).

It's not Sarah tinted sunglasses, it's observations and experience in the choices presented in given situations and how safe/unsafe a strong choice is.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> "(unless you count 6PK)"</div></div>

LOL

That's a pretty big "unless" there, fella.

 

LOL

That's a pretty big "unless" there, fella. </div></div>

Well considering that a TON of moves go UNDER it, because of wierd hitboxes, then yeah. Oh yeah, and alot of those moves tend to be those moves that are safe(not PK punishable), that lead to 60-70pts+ in damage, using 6P on your own advantage too might I add.

 

Akira followups
P+K P+K +4 on block high combostarter on any hit and natural combo on first hit counter
P+K P high natural combo on normal hit, big advantage on hit
P+K f+P mid followup crouchstagger

All followups are safe on block. Some less than others though.

I hear what you are saying, but apart the ease of sabaking her attacks (example: her normal stance K+G is actually a fullcircular high kick) I dont really agree with being predictable. Akira is much much much more predictable than Sarah. Trust me on this. Plus theres quite a few sabakis in game that already sabaki most everything out there.

ps. Sarah is actually one of the few to have a string thats advantage on block.. (all high though, last hit special high) PPKK.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well considering that a TON of moves go UNDER it, because of wierd hitboxes, then yeah. Oh yeah, and alot of those moves tend to be those moves that are safe(not PK punishable), that lead to 60-70pts+ in damage, using 6P on your own advantage too might I add. </div></div>
my rant sense is tingling /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

ps. if there are moves that go under Sarah 6PK (I dont actually know many) then those go under a crapload of other characters mids as well. Once again, its not Sarahs 6PK thats weak, except in damage.

 

I'm not saying Akira is more unpredictable than Sarah. Sarah is confusing as shit to defend against, it's fast guessing games.

Sarah's PPKK, you just crouch guard after PP, PP2K = launch her, PPK = her having to finish and use special high K or being open to 0f throws for example. PP2KK(the mid you can interrupt with jab, or sidestep it's way slow enough). PPKK(special high) counter hit gives you PK. Or again, the opponent crouch guards the entire time and waits it out.

 

Or you do PP~G, 6P.

/offtopic, Manjimaru out. Somebody post more vids.

 

HAHAHA! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif This man will never be happy XD
Oh man, I'm really lol'ing here, first she sucks now she's too much, omglolbbq+1!
Manjimaru, I love your posts man, keep them coming, LMFAO!

 

This one is purely for the hardcore Eileen fans...
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm3808692

This clip is actually a collection of three VF5R matches followed by one VF5 match. There's also some sort of story, with music, between each match. Just over ten minutes in all.

 

I am really happy with the changes and welcome the challenge. Having said that, I will enjoy my vf5 time before it's gone and savor the use of the tools taken away in 5R.

Slide-
Yeah, the 3 hitter is easy offline now, but still an issue online. I will eventually get it now since the net value is worth more effort.

Tony-
I am happy and not always mad. It's just the blatant unbalancing that gets under my skin and the fact that most people choose to ignore it based on which character they play. I guess it seems to me that if it doesn't effect the character you play then why complain? Anyway, that is the idea that is expressed to me by the majority of players I have talked too. Knowing that, I would be more than happy to show you my happy side if we meet at a tourney by throwing a few back.

Not just sarah dx model....
Just sarah 08' getting the full package!

Love the OMGLOLBBQ+1

 

So Sarah's Dragon Smash Cannon input has been reverted back to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif like it was in VF3 and VF4. Am I right? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

By the way, let's hope she's fixed before the game is released. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbs_up.gif

 

http://ria444.blog81.fc2.com/

Ria444's blog is a goldmine for Sarah VFR Movies.

 

This is true but for Conditioned opponentents you should know that in the heat of the battle some people do freeze up and forget to go low before the punch but if the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif has been canceled afterwards they would probably jump at the chance to interupt.
Also /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is the alternative to get opponents to react differently.

Back on Topic. I don't give a fuck what none of you Sarah using Motherfuckers say. That Chick was and is a terror. Forget the fact that some moves are not powerful she has.This chick can break you down piece by piece with vicious strikes and throws. Im glad she was toned down. Who the fuck else has a DM the Causes a sideturn?

 

All I know is I welcome the changes and frankly she is FAR from being overpowered/unbalanced. I still haven't heard of a sabaki or a reversal or something that she has defensively that she can use to instantly turn defense into offense like Akira, Aoi, Vanessa, Goh, Lion, Lei, Kage, and the monkey-girl. They can break offensive strings likethat and go on the offense immediately and do damage defensively. These guys can sick back and have very good turtle options along with their decent offense.

But Sarah's defensive cupboard is bare. You have to read your opponent better than with almost everybody else to try to find a hole to get her offense going. I've watched a lot of VF5R vids....... I STILL don't see anything that can stop anybody cold. She's a terror on offense...... but like Slide alluded to it's up to you to guess right. The way you feel on defense is the way Sarah players feel on defense. But now it looks like it's more even because some of her stuff hits like it's supposed to and her juggle damage/options have raised.

And don't forget, a lot of her offense still revolves around her Flamingo. A good turtler can stop her cold and and if their offense is as good as their defense, you can stop Sarah from getting started quite well. I'm not saying I'm a good Sarah player or anything but against guys with good flowing offense, sometimes I feel like unless I get the very 1st hit of the round, I'm screwed because I can't stop you without guessing.