VF5 System -- Please Pitch In and Contribute!

Oops thanks for the correction.

 

Question:

What is the frame range on staggers?

Has it been the same all throughout the VF series?

My impression is that in VF5 it's like 10~16 or something like that... That's just a guess since struggling gets you out of it soon enough to get you dash thrown if you don't attack or crouch, and not struggling leaves you in the staggered state long enough to cause opponent's dash in throw to whiff.

And of course notes for whoever writes about HIGH THROWS:

High Throws can occur when:
-Opponent is just standing
-Opponent is moving (but not crouched)
-Opponent is in ARM (since technically they are not in DM)
-Opponent is guarding high
-During the recovery frames of an attack (I wasn't sure if this was true, but given 0-frame throws, I guess it is?) or throw
-Opponent is doing a reversal
-Opponent is low throwing

High Throws cannot occur when:
-Opponent is crouching or in a low stance
-Opponent is crouchdashing
-Opponent blocks low
-Opponent is in execution or active hit frames of an attack
-Opponent is staggered
-Opponent is crumpling (since we're talking high throws here)
-Opponent is wall-staggered

 

Thanks again for getting the VF5 System guide thread rolling. I think we can have a reasonably complete guide by the time of the 360 release of VF5.

After this VF5 System guide is completed, do you think a new future project (in addition to VF Theory assuming there's any interest in that) could be an appendix that compares general Tekken mechanics to VF mechanics?

This appendix would take for granted the very specifics on controls. We'd skip the general knowledge, but we'd help clarify a few key elements for the hardcore tekken fans.

Things like:
-Throw mechanics
-Input Buffer
-Back/Front vs. Left/Right (on stances, dodges, and combos)
-Frame Data Design (sort of addressing the difference in ratios between attacks that give advantage on block, and attacks that do not--in VF a giant majority of attacks do not).

It's just an idea... maybe something we could collaborate on with the folks at Tekken Zaibatsu or something. Good will and all that jazz.

Again, I'd make it like last priority after System and Theory and even specific articles. But I think an objective entry of this sort could be really good.

-Chanchai

 

Stagger frames vary from move to move, so it's not fair to give it a general ball park guess. If it's like VF4 evo/FT.

 

Thanks, Srider /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

SWEET!!!

 

Fix all errors please (there will be several)
--------

<u>Return Attacks</u> <span style='font-size: 8pt'>(advanced, character-specific defense?)</span>

<u>Return Attacks</u> <span style='font-size: 8pt'>(needs new name... maybe?)</span> are the next step in standard defense and fall under three categories: <u>Reversal</u>, <u>Inashi</u>, and <u>Sabaki</u>.

Only one character doesn't have this option, Jeffry, whereas every other character has at least one of the skills. If used properly, the opponent's momentum is lost and matches can be won.

But with that in mind, these aren't "instant win!" moves in anyway. Like nearly all moves, they must be used in a wise manner, or rather, by predicting your opponent's actions (yomi).

(active) <u>Reversal</u>:
Inputs for reversals are universal. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif for high attacks, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif for mid attacks, and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif for low attacks. With this in mind you must know that not all characters even have these skills, to further complicate this, not all characters have all three kinds of reversals. Aside from Akira, Wolf, and Aoi, no other characters have low reversals.

Even more to compound this confusion: reversals are attack specific. Though an elbow hits mid and, for instance, Vanessa has a mid-level reversal, the elbow won't be reversed as Vanessa lacks an elbow reversal. Other than Aoi, who can reverse all attacks at any hit-level, all other characters with reversals don't have this option. To learn of your character's reversals, please check VFDC's frame-data and movelist charts.

With all these factors, mixed with the need for you to correctly guess, the unpredictability of a human opponent, and relatively low damage, reversals can be seen as more of a burden than an asset to your character's movelist.

But not all is bad, reversals have their place if you choose to use them.

Firstly, other than Vanessa's high and mid punch reversal and Akira's reversals, they can't be escaped and have damage reduced through TR. Their damage isn't uniform amount, as Wolf and Vanessa both have reversals that do over 40 damage (1/5 of health). If the opponent uses a string you know well or abuses the same attack, a reversal becomes a useful "Stop That!" Some reversals lead to decent oki and even additional damage with a downed attack or even a ground throw.

Several reversals have a niche of usage and could even be anti-character. Brad's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif can reverse mid-kicks, side kicks, and full circular mid kicks, and because of this, he can reverse mid rising kicks and shut down Vanessa's Defense Stance range game by being able to reverse her indispensable /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and her signature /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif.

Also another important note: Throws cannot be reversed! But to help fight this problem, you can enter in throw escapes just in case.

Reversals in a summary: High risk, but with correct yomi and extensive knowledge, they can find their way into your game.

Plus they look cool.

(passive or omni) <u>Reversals</u>:
The only example of this in the game (?) is Lei Fei's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif stance, while he is neutral. This can reverse high punches, mid punches, low punches, and even elbows, without the need of further inputs (passive). Like other reversals, this requires yomi.

(hold?) <u>Inashi</u>:
Other than Jacky and Vanessa, no other character possesses this tool.

They need to be in neutral, Vanessa in DS (defense stance). When these requirements are met, the opponent's high and mid punch will be caught and their follow-ups can be applied.

(parry) <u>Inashi</u>:
An example of a (parry) inashi is Aoi's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. The purpose of (parry) inashi isn't to inflict damage but to deflect an attack and give you frame advantage to then inflict damage. For more info on Aoi's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, check her forum.

(reversal) <u>Inashi</u>:
An example being Pai's high /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and mid /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. These behave like reversals, give less damage, but they give frame advantage instead.

(parry) <u>Sabaki</u>:
(parry) Sabakis are are varied within themselves. An example being Goh's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and Vanessa's and Goh's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif.

Goh's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif essentially parries high and mid punches and elbows and gives Goh two options: use the frame advantage, which is based upon the timing of the input in relation the the opponent's attack, or to lead to Tsukami (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif>/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif). The thing that separates this maneuver from inashi and reversal is, even without a successful sabaki Goh can input /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and go into tsukami.

Vanessa's and Goh's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif also give frame advantage upon successful sabaki of opponent's low punch. Even if the sabaki isn't sucessful, they're in a crouched position, where they can mix up their offensive.

You can be thrown from any of these (?), but you can always enter in throw escapes if you predict that they will attempt a throw while you might try a (parry) sabaki.

Attack <u>Sabaki</u>:
Attack sabakis have a similarity with (parry) sabakis, where they have utility even if they don't deflect an opponent's attack. What sets these sabakis apart from all other advanced defensive techniques is that they can deflect an enemy's attack and then land an attack itself (if the range is right).

Like reversals, they aren't "instant win!" techniques. Sabakis are also move specific. Aoi's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif can only sabaki side kicks, and Vanessa's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif can "only" sabaki any low attack (and avoid highs). Like all advanced defensive techniques, they require yomi, but because they are attacks, and you can't be thrown with using them, their usefulness is much higher.

Another great use is their ability to beat nitaku situations. As Aoi and Lei Fei's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, Akira's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, and Goh's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif beat out throws and elbow class attacks.


-----

Blah, I should be writing a paper.

 

Well, its become a bit of a long string of words this, I've always been long winded, but here it is, throwsies...

Please feel free to comment on the what and whatnot of this stuff, I'll edit it accordingly.

---------------

Throws

- Normal Throw
Unlike most fighting games throws are a basic, if not essential, part of anyone’s arsenal in VF. They execute in twelve frames (exceptions below) and have a range equal to a little under a standing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. These moves are useful for breaking down the defence of an opponent who simply likes to stand and block your attacks.

---- High
High Throws are the basic throw. They are all executed with the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif command with optional directional inputs depending on the character you are using, check your character’s movelist to see which combinations are available.

High Throws hit when:
-Opponent is standing (evading, blocking, dashing, moving, NOT crouching)
-During the recovery of a high attack or throw
-Opponent is doing a high or mid reversal
-Opponent is low throwing

High Throws miss when:
-Opponent is crouching or in a low stance (dashing, blocking or passive)
-Opponent is in execution or active hit frames of an attack
-Opponent is staggered
-Opponent is crumpling
-Opponent is wall-staggered

---- Low
Low Throws are throws to grab a crouching opponent with. They are executed by inputting one or more directions together with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. Not all characters are capable of Low Throws.

Low Throws hit when:
-Opponent is just crouching
-Opponent is in the crouching animation of the crouch dash
-Opponent is guarding low
-During the recovery of a move that recovers low
-Opponent is doing a low reversal
-Opponent is in a mid crumpled state

Low Throws miss when:
-Opponent is standing (still, moving, blocking, staggered or dashing)
-Opponent is in execution or active hit frames of an attack

List of characters with Low Throws:
Aoi, El Blaze, Goh, Jeffry, Pai, Vanessa and Wolf.

---- Back
Back Throws act like any other high or low throw, except that they only work when the opponent is Back Turned and cannot be escaped. Everyone possesses at least one of these and can execute it through hitting /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, some characters have options beyond that but this always works.

Any High or Low Throw executed on a Back Turned (or Crounching Back Turned) opponent will automatically become a Back Throw, regardless of the directional input used*.

*Note that this isn’t true for Catch Throws, these will miss when they hit the side or back. (Confirmation?)

---- Side
Like Back Throws, Side Throws are simply High or Low Throws but then executed on an Opponent’s side. Everyone has High Side Throws and all are executed with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. These throws can be escaped and always with the same command, either /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif depending on the side being attacked (see throw escapes below).

Also like Back Throws any High or Low Throw hitting the opponent’s Side (while Standing or Crouching respectively) will revert that throw into a side throw. Once again, this isn’t true for Catch Throws in all cases.

- Guaranteed Throw
A guaranteed throw is throwing your opponent in a situation where they can not recover from his current animation quickly enough to avoid it through attacking or moving out of range. This occurs after the opponent fails an evade or after they miss an attack that leaves you enough time to move in and throw or you block a move that recovers in 12 frames or more.

- Zero Frame Throw
Normally a throw includes a grab animation before it hits and the actual throw animation goes through, this grab animation lasts for 12 frames during which time the opponent can initiate an attack or duck/rise to interrupt or avoid your throw. Zero Frame Throws however execute without this animation.

Any High or Low Throw executed when the opponent is passive will execute as a zero frame throw. This means an opponent that is either standing still or blocking, whether crouching or standing for low and high throws respectively. Zero Frame throws will also occur if the opponent is in a Catch Throw animation.

Further information can be found here.

- Catch Throw
These are inescapable throws with special animations such as Goh’s /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. Depending on the throw they have varying execution times and ranges. Beyond that these WILL hit an opponent during an attack animation. But on the other hand the opponent can zero frame throw you during the startup animation of a Catch Throw.

- Hit Throw
These are inescapable throws that can only be performed as extension to certain moves. They often require the move in question to Counter Hit to work but some will work on a normal hit, block as well. They will not work on a Side or Back Turned opponent (can someone confirm this?). Technically these are throws but in effect they work like striking attacks that are simply the next part in the string and end with a downed opponent.

Note that these hit throws, like all strings of attacks, need not be guaranteed follow-ups, some can be avoided by striking the opponent or moving out of the way through crouch dashing.

Examples:
Vanessa’s (Offensive Stance)/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif(Counter Hit)/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (low kick into takedown)
Jeffry’s /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif(Hit)/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (mid kick into throw)
Goh’s /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif(Hit or Block)/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (high kick into arm lock)

- Throw Escape (TE)
Attacks beat Throws, but sometimes you’ll not want to attack because you’re in disadvantage or want to gain a better position in the ring. In such instances you can input Throw Escapes to secure yourself against throws.

Escaping throws is done by inputting throw commands during moments you are vulnerable to throws but before recovering from the move you are currently doing, such as when you miss an attack, block, after having a move blocked or while moving around. To escape a throw you need to use the same command the opponent used to end his throw input. This means that Wolf’s Giant Swing (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif) is escaped by inputting /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif*. Neutral (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif) throws are escaped by simply using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. After successfully escaping a throw you usually recover with a small to moderate advantage.

*Note that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif means pressing forward and not right. It’s important to discern between right and left and forward and backward in this. Wolf’s Giant Swing ends with a forward command, so you’ll need to use forward throw escape to beat it, never mix the words left and right into discussions about throw escapes as people will start spinning circles around each other in no time flat.

---- Multiple Throw Escapes (Double DTE / Triple TTE etc.)
During a moment you are vulnerable to throws you will want to secure yourself against more than a single throw direction, especially when facing throw heavy characters such as Wolf or Goh. This is done by inputting more than one throw escape before the animation of your last move ends. This is usually easy with large throw guaranteed moves.

---- Throw Escape with Guard (TEG)
Throw Escape Guard and Evade Throw Escape Guard are a technique used to resume blocking as fast as possible while entering throw escapes allowing you to guard against both strikes and throws. It is done by holding down the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif button that was part of the last throw escape. TEG will also save you from a throw coming out accidentally and eating a Counter hit or Clash (see below).

---- Evade Throw Escape (ETE)
Inputting Throw Escapes while Evading provides protection against throws during your evade, which is normally weak against throws. It is done by simply inputting throw escape commands right after the command to evade.

---- Combinations
Evading, Multiple and Guarded Throw Escapes can be used in combination with one another to seriously limit the amount of options the opponent has to land blows successfully. Especially when also combined with dashes, crouch dashes and the like.

Note: This also creates the impressive abbreviations you may encounter during discussions such as DTEG, ETTEG, etc.

- Throw Clash
A throw clash occurs when a striking attack is launched at a throwing character, the two characters lunge out at one another and then reel back, leaving them at neutral frames. There are a number of requisites for this to occur, these are:
-It’s a high or low throw (not catch or zero frame, a zero frame throw will have already executed anyway)
-The striking attack isn’t a low attack,
-The striking attack doesn’t recover back turned
-The striking attack isn’t in an aerial state at the moment the hit frames start
-The following formula returns true:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Speed of normal throw < Attack Execution Speed / 2 (round down) + Current frame adv. or disadv.
or simply
12 < [exe/2] + frame
</div></div>
Meaning a clash will occur if the throw goes into hit frames before half the animation of the striking attack has passed.

For more technical information of throw clashes and their effects on gameplay look here. This discussion is not recommended reading for beginners, for now just know that throws will clash with striking attacks when the striker attacks from a disadvantaged situation or with a very slow move.

Thanks to: Chanchai, Akai, Srider, Ice9 (for stuff on zero frame throws and clashes)

 

So catch throws hit even if the opponent is in an attacking animation?

I was also messing around with Goh's catches last night and noticed you can get 0-frame thrown out of a catch throw animation. If anyone can confirm that it'd be great.

And yeah, I checked all the Catch Throws in the movelists. Looking at the amount of inescapable throws in Kage's movelist made me kinda sick really. Especially as a Goh/Vane player...

edit: Made some changes to zero frame and catch throw entries.

 

Doesn't Goh's 66P+G count as a catch throw? That one can be escaped.

 

Uhm, no it can't, not anymore.

Loved that little tidbit of knowledge when I first heard it.

 

Vortigar:
"- Hit Throw
These are inescapable throws that can only be performed as extension to certain moves. They often require the move in question to Counter Hit to work but some will work on a normal hit, block as well. They will not work on a Side or Back Turned opponent (can someone confirm this?). Technically these are throws but in effect they work like striking attacks that are simply the next part in the string and end with a downed opponent."

NOT CONFIRMED in vf5, but sarah in vf4:evo had FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif hit throw on BT opp. I think it's still work now.
Also in VF4:evo, Jeff's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif could be stopped by /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. I think it still the same (would be too powerful without it). The same was with one of Wolf's hit throws (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif ??)
About catch throws: in VF4:evo, Wolf had Evade+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif catch throw which was escapable. What about it now (does he even still have this move?)?

Please check it!
(GOD, I want PS3!!)

 

hmmm, I didn't say they would always go through. I'd better clarify that one.

 

Why do a lot of the black book combos say like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif pp or something when just standard pp (no hold forward) works just fine? As a matter of fact, any combo that has standard p or k in it says hold forward for the duration. Where does that actually become useful?

 

Some combos require you to hold forward. Gives the p slightly extra range. It's a very good habit to get into. Alot of VF4 combos required it.

 

But I don't get why the black book combos say to do it when the combo can hit without it. I would think it would only be on the required combos....

 

When you hit combo starts at maximum range or against certain characters (like those with smaller hit boxes like perhaps Shun or Lion) normal /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif can potentially whiff. If it does you lose the entire combo opportunity. To safe guard against it, they tell you to use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif as insurance against that.